J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

Me not being tested has nothing to do with this. You keep dancing around the facts, it is found almost 6% in Serbs and less than 1% in albanians, it is NOT albanian in origin and has nothing to do with albanians. It is almost non existant in North albanians too and yet these are the ones who have the most j2b l283. So it is not ilyrian at all like you claim, it doesn't have a big enough base to be, it looks recent especially amongst the less than 1% albanians

Haplogroup is more important than autosomal, far more accurate far more specific, we are talking about your fathers tribe here. All of these krici and whatever you mention is all well and good but you can't know what happened to these people during ottoman era, we don't have enough written history, what we have is accurate dna tests. Even if you insist it isn't from ottoman even though most evidence says otherwise it still doesn't make it albanian. The percentage is just too low

You are like talking to bot. I already explained to you that Serb J2-M205 is all Y22059 its more northern branch of J2-M205 with Pre-Slavic Montenegrin origin. It has higher percentage because it had tribal expansion in area of Montenegro but later got slavicized just as 30 % of that E-v13 but also J2-L283, R1b, J1 and so on. It is actually 2-3 percent in Serbs and 4.8 percent by their project at the moment, you pulled out outdated data when they overtested Croatian and Bosnian Serbs that declared Vlach in the past. While in fact judging by haplogroups they were either Albanian or either Slavic.


J2-M205>Y22059 is identified in 2 tribes so far, Kriçi (North Montenegro) and Lohja (North Albania). While Kriçi could very easily spoken Albanian language therefore be of Albanian origin, Lohja is for sure of Albanian origin. MRCA of Y22059 was for sure not Slavic, but due to very distant relatives more recent history is unknown therefore Illyrian and ancient Greek hypothesis thru Phoenician expansion makes sense.

Percentage is not important at all, since you see all Montenegrin therefore Serb J2-M205 is from one tribal population that expanded in last 1000 years according to Yfull TMRCA. While Albanians have multiple subclades similar to Greeks and Italians testifying they had longer contact with J2-M205 since its present in multiple subclades that separated long time ago one from another. While Serbs have only none-Slavic, therefore very likely Albanian J2-M205>Y22059 subclade that is result of recent slavicisation of Montenegro and none-Slavic populations as Albanians.

Otherwise J2-M205>Y22059 subclade is most likely Phoenician expansion into Greek and Illyrian territories. So even it probably become Hellenic or Illyrian, it is for sure Middle Eastern in origin and expanded since Bronze Age or later.


Interesting J-M205 find from the paper on Ancient Rome:
- R50, Centocelle, 135-244CE (Imperial Rome) belongs to J2b-M205>Y134194 https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...sroads-of-Europe-and-the-Mediterranean/page12



Very good find, i was looking at this research earlier and seen J2-M12* samples that could have been M205 or Z1825/L283. Branch Y134194 if found in modern day Lebanon and Egypt TMRCA 3300 ybp - https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y134194/


This is very good find for entire J2-M205. It would be better if it was some older sample. We already have sample with similar age found in Roman England gladiator.

So according to ancient bones so far we have J2-M205 confirmed in Canaanites/Phoenicians and Romans of Middle Eastern origin. Also in EBA I/II Jordan.
 
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Me,my Mom, my Dad and my maternal Grandpa are all 100% Balkan on FF, it means nothing. I am one of the samples taken as basic for Balkan, so if you score 100% something it only means you are one of the core samples :) We have nothing to do with Albanians, except we have genes from Native Balkan people and Slavs like they do :) Ofc in different proportions :) Please guys you seem to understand Genetics either educate him or make him stop write BS :)

PS. A lot of Bulgarians are 100% or more then 90% Balkan on FF, it does not make it Bulgarian component, just like 100% sure it does not make it Albanian or Serb.

As for J2b1 it is the most common in Europe in Serbs, it does not make you Serb ofc, just like being E-V13 does not make you Albanian, not even a bit,it is the subclade which really matters. Haplogrouops belong to nobody and being from a nation is a mental and historical thing and has nothing to do with haplogrouops :)
 
Me,my Mom, my Dad and my maternal Grandpa are all 100% Balkan on FF, it means nothing. I am one of the samples taken as basic for Balkan, so if you score 100% something it only means you are one of the core samples :) We have nothing to do with Albanians, except we have genes from Native Balkan people and Slavs like they do :) Ofc in different proportions :) Please guys you seem to understand Genetics either educate him or make him stop write BS :)



There is no Balkan category in FTDNA family finder.. Btw we just commented autosomal tests, not a big deal. Its clear that according to FTDNA calculator Southeast Europe is Albanian Greek and Italian cluster while East Europe is Slavic (Russia Ukraine) cluster.

FTDNA after version 2.0 does very good job in separating these clusters.



Show your FTDNA family finder result
 
I googled for Bulgarian autosomal results, i found one example of FTDNA FF here:

Guy says: "I am from Bulgaria pretty much and all my recent ancestors are from here. Maternal grandmother from southwest Bulgaria, distant ancestors originally from Kilkis, Greece."
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?285419-Bulgarian-Autosomal-(very-differing)-Results


Does this looks like 100 % Southeast Europe to you ?


0oIMBVv.png
 
100 % South East Europe as I said for me, my Mom, my Dad and my maternal Grandpa and for a lot of other Bulgarians, but this is not the point, but how to stop the tro...l

[FONT=&quot]The Southeast Europe cluster consists of present day populations from the areas of Italy, Greece, and the western Balkan states from Bulgaria to Croatia. Present day populations in the Southeast Europe cluster show some of the highest rates of genetic relatedness to the second wave of migration into Europe roughly 11,000 years ago. This wave of migration consisted of Neolithic farmers from the Fertile Crescent and expanded primarily into southern Europe, incorporating small scattered European hunter-gatherer communities along their path.[/FONT]
 
So what I already explained to you,who gets 100% something. Think how to stop the disgrace of Albania here my friend :)
 
The results,which you posted are from a guy who complained how made up his results are compared to other companies, as for Slavic component, this is non sense, Russians are heavily mixed with Finnic people, Poles and Czechs with Germanics and Celts Bulgarians and Serbs with Med people etc.etc :)

But lets not make offtopic. On the topic J2b1 is highest in Europe in Serbs, it is not Albanian or Serb component, there is not a single component in the world which is owned by a modern ethnicity. So you have a Big Y? Do you plan to make also for another J2b1 Albanians ?
 
I am still not convinced that 100 % Southeast Europe is that common among Bulgarians. And if it is, it means that they are 100 % autosomally made of Thracian/Greek/Illyrian components rather then of Slavic as their modern language suggests. Or older Bulgar language of Tukic origin.


I have show you random FTDNA FF of Bulgarian example. He has higher East component which represents Slavic influence into modern Bulgars then Southeast which would be Thracian/Illyrian.

Other South Slavs also get similar to that result. You have not convinced me that you and your family, and many Bulgarians score 100 % Southeast Europe on FTDNA autosomal calculator.




The results,which you posted are from a guy who complained how made up his results are compared to other companies, as for Slavic component, this is non sense, Russians are heavily mixed with Finnic people, Poles and Czechs with Germanics and Celts Bulgarians and Serbs with Med people etc.etc :)

But lets not make offtopic. On the topic J2b1 is highest in Europe in Serbs, it is not Albanian or Serb component, there is not a single component in the world which is owned by a modern ethnicity. So you have a Big Y? Do you plan to make also for another J2b1 Albanians ?


Ukrainians, Poles, Russians get very high percentage of East Europe, above 80 %. In this thread you have Ukraine/Polish guy that posted his FTDNA autosomal he scores over 90 % of East Europe. Also i seen Polish guy scoring 100 % East Europe.


Only South Slavs get this ridiculous amount of Southeast Europe, but still its usually lower then East Europe. While Serbs and Montenegrins have higher Southeast component in compare to Croats, Bosnjaks or Slovens because of Albanian/Illyrian influence while Bulgarians have because of Thracian/Illyrian/Greek influence.


100 % Southeast Europe in FTDNA is very very rare so i simply dont believe that there is many Bulgarians and half of your family that score 100 % Southeast Europe.
 
There is two J2-M205 samples identified so far in "Ancient Rome: A genetic crossroads of Europe and the Mediterranean":

Sample R50, 135-244 CE.
Belongs to branch J-M205>Y134194 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y134194/ (TMRCA 3300 ybp, modern Lebanon and Egypt samples in Yfull)

Centocelle Necropolis, Rome (Suburbium)

The area of the ancient Centumcellae, in a south-eastern suburb of Rome, next to the Via Labicana (withinmodern day Centocelle, Rome), extends for more than 30 hectares and preserves a rich archaeologicalrecord ranging from the 6th century BCE to the 6th century CE. Among the many monuments and sites sofar investigated, the necropolis of Centocelle is associated with a Roman imperial Villa (Ad Duas Lauros)and is dated to the IV-V century CE.The necropolis consists of 61 inhumations and the individuals possibly pertained to the inhabitants of theVilla. The preliminary bioarchaeological survey is published in (124–127). Dietary analysis of theinhumated through compound specific isotope analyses (CSIA) performed on single amino acids iscurrently in progress. The human osteological material is currently stored at the Museo delle Civiltà inRome.



Sample R1283
, 771-974 CE.
Belongs to J-M205>PF7321* (no specific branch) https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PF7321/

Cancelleria - The Basilica of San Lorenzo in Damaso

The Basilica of San Lorenzo was erected by Pope Damaso (366-384 CE) in south-western CampoMarzio, reusing part of an architectural complex in which it is possible to recognize the buildings of thefactio prasina, one of the four factions of the circus (109–111). The Basilica, with three naves, occupied alarge area largely coinciding with that of the courtyard of the Palazzo della Cancelleria, in one of the mostcentral areas of Rome, halfway between Piazza Farnese and Piazza Navona.Probably as early as the sixth century CE there are numerous burials (subsequently reworked severaltimes) that are carried out in the area of the church, in particular in a vast environment located close to thesouth side of the building (112).A radical transformation of the Basilica is recorded in the second quarter of the 11th century CEfollowing a fire, of which extensive traces have been found. In addition to conspicuous transformations ofa structural nature, the floor of all the sections of the Basilica was raised by about 1 m. In the church,starting from this date until its destruction, numerous burials were built including several masonryossuaries. New changes to the structure of the church were made during the second half of the fifteenthcentury. The numismatic artifacts found have allowed us to date, at the beginning of the last quarter of thefifteenth century, a large mass grave in which hundreds of burials were deposited (SU17, SU30 andSU471). In the way of organizing the burials it is likely to recognize the effects of a plague epidemicwhich we know to have struck the city between 1476 and 1479 CE, a hypothesis that would also beconfirmed by the study of skeletal remains. In 1489 CE the building of the Palazzo della Cancelleriabegins and the church is totally destroyed. The population of this necropolis covers most of the MiddleAges and is representative of the population of Rome of this period.
 
I hope they put R1283 ​to YFull. Maybe with this cousin my sample will form new subclade.
 
Sample R50, 135-244 CE.
Belongs to branch J-M205>Y134194 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y134194/ (TMRCA 3300 ybp, modern Lebanon and Egypt samples in Yfull)

Here is some interesting Gedmatch results for this sample:

Calculating Population Admixture - dv3 [K=12]

2.14% East_European
16.23% West_European
41.01% Mediterranean

0.00% Neo_African
28.51% West_Asian
0.00% South_Asian
0.14% Northeast_Asian
0.00% Southeast_Asian
0.07% East_African
11.84% Southwest_Asian
0.02% Northwest_African
0.04% Palaeo_African


Calculating Population Admixture - eurogenes [K=36]

0.00% Amerindian
1.95% Arabian
6.23% Armenian

0.00% Basque
0.00% Central_African
0.00% Central_Euro
0.00% East_African
0.00% East_Asian
4.87% East_Balkan
0.00% East_Central_Asian
0.13% East_Central_Euro
23.81% East_Med
0.00% Eastern_Euro
0.00% Fennoscandian
4.23% French
10.09% Iberian
0.00% Indo-Chinese
26.91% Italian
0.00% Malayan
9.25% Near_Eastern
0.00% North_African
0.22% North_Atlantic
0.00% North_Caucasian
0.00% North_Sea
0.00% Northeast_African
0.00% Oceanian
0.00% Omotic
0.00% Pygmy
0.00% Siberian
0.00% South_Asian
0.00% South_Central_Asian
0.00% South_Chinese
0.00% Volga-Ural
0.00% West_African
4.64% West_Caucasian
7.67% West_Med



Calculating Population Admixture - globe13 [K=13]


0.01% Siberian
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% West_African
0.05% Palaeo_African
18.91% Southwest_Asian
0.00% East_Asian
38.66% Mediterranean
0.16% Australasian
0.00% Arctic
26.98% West_Asian
15.23% North_European

0.00% South_Asian
0.00% East_African
 
You are like talking to bot. I already explained to you that Serb J2-M205 is all Y22059 its more northern branch of J2-M205 with Pre-Slavic Montenegrin origin. It has higher percentage because it had tribal expansion in area of Montenegro but later got slavicized just as 30 % of that E-v13 but also J2-L283, R1b, J1 and so on. It is actually 2-3 percent in Serbs and 4.8 percent by their project at the moment, you pulled out outdated data when they overtested Croatian and Bosnian Serbs that declared Vlach in the past. While in fact judging by haplogroups they were either Albanian or either Slavic.
J2-M205>Y22059 is identified in 2 tribes so far, Kriçi (North Montenegro) and Lohja (North Albania). While Kriçi could very easily spoken Albanian language therefore be of Albanian origin, Lohja is for sure of Albanian origin. MRCA of Y22059 was for sure not Slavic, but due to very distant relatives more recent history is unknown therefore Illyrian and ancient Greek hypothesis thru Phoenician expansion makes sense.
Percentage is not important at all, since you see all Montenegrin therefore Serb J2-M205 is from one tribal population that expanded in last 1000 years according to Yfull TMRCA. While Albanians have multiple subclades similar to Greeks and Italians testifying they had longer contact with J2-M205 since its present in multiple subclades that separated long time ago one from another. While Serbs have only none-Slavic, therefore very likely Albanian J2-M205>Y22059 subclade that is result of recent slavicisation of Montenegro and none-Slavic populations as Albanians.
Otherwise J2-M205>Y22059 subclade is most likely Phoenician expansion into Greek and Illyrian territories. So even it probably become Hellenic or Illyrian, it is for sure Middle Eastern in origin and expanded since Bronze Age or later.
Very good find, i was looking at this research earlier and seen J2-M12* samples that could have been M205 or Z1825/L283. Branch Y134194 if found in modern day Lebanon and Egypt TMRCA 3300 ybp - https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y134194/
This is very good find for entire J2-M205. It would be better if it was some older sample. We already have sample with similar age found in Roman England gladiator.
So according to ancient bones so far we have J2-M205 confirmed in Canaanites/Phoenicians and Romans of Middle Eastern origin. Also in EBA I/II Jordan.

Whatever dude, j2b m205 has nothing to do with albanians, it is found much more in serbia and Middle East, less than 1% in Albanians meanwhile j2b l283 is almost 20%. Where it came from is the question and the answer will never be from albania. Romans is also unlikely because Serbs having it more than albanians wouldnt make sense, maybe it came from Jewish Romans as we know they took them as slaves initially but it could also be from early osman arabs

And yes percentage is absolutely the most important thing when determining the genetics of a population

karta-7.jpg
 
Got to love these jelly trølls invading thread all the time with various theories but always trying to represent M205 as recent arrival or Vlach, Bulgar, Jewish slave, Serbian, Turkish, Ottoman....

Listen here you ShpataEmadhe little trøll boy,


Will you please answer to me why are you now typing in Latin alphabet?? That has roots in ancient Greek alphabet, which has roots in Phoenician (Semitic) alphabet ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet#Origins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet#Origins


Do i have to remind you that J-M205 was found in ancient Sidon 1600 BCE, specifically where this alphabet originates?

A7AkvTe.jpg




+ add two new J-M205 samples from recent ancient Roman study.
 
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And btw no one ever said that J2-M205 has origin in Albanians. You have like intelligence problems.
It was said for one specific sublcade and not for its formed date but for its TMRCA. So J2-M205>Y22059, since Y22059 was identified in two tribes Kriçi (early pre-Slavic Montenegrin tribe), and Lohja (obvious North Albanian tribe).

J2-M205>Y22059 formed date 4900 ybp, TMRCA 1000 ybp.

So what i said is that MRCA (most recent common ancestor) of Y22059 most likely spoken Albanian language. More further origin then 1000 years is without doubt Roman or earlier Illyrian or Greek thru Bronze Age Middle East migration.



Also i dont know why this kind of stupidity is tolerated by Eupedia:

Whatever dude, j2b m205 has nothing to do with albanians, it is found much more in serbia and Middle East, less than 1% in Albanians meanwhile j2b l283 is almost 20%. Where it came from is the question and the answer will never be from albania. Romans is also unlikely because Serbs having it more than albanians wouldnt make sense, maybe it came from Jewish Romans as we know they took them as slaves initially but it could also be from early osman arabs

He says Romans is unlikely even tho J2-M205 now has multiple Roman samples. But then he concludes that its possible that is some "Jewish Roman slave" since it sounds bad enough so it satisfies him. Also J2-M205 almost does not exist among Jews, so far its identified in one branch. Its more likely of Canaanite origin.

Also he insists in Ottoman Arabs even tho J2-M205 has diversified all over Mediterranean Sea long before Ottoman or Common Era time. It peaks among Cypriot Greeks and its found in high diversity and many varieties along Mediterranean where most of subclades separated in time-frame of 4000-6000 years one from another. J2-M205 is very rare in Turkey and also its in so far only one identified branch. This guy has no bases for his claims.

Here he says that Cypriot J2-M205 is also from Ottoman conquest.
Also j2b m205 definitely seems from osman conquest, it seems to have broken into cyprus

In Cyprus regarding J-M205, researchers say: "J2b-M205 may contribute also to the pre-Greek strata."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4750176/

Do you know what pre-Greek strata is ?

In other thread he talks about drugs and needles and is obvious joker. Reported!
 
Got to love these jelly trølls invading thread all the time with various theories but always trying to represent M205 as recent arrival or Vlach, Bulgar, Jewish slave, Serbian, Turkish, Ottoman....

Listen here you ShpataEmadhe little trøll boy,


Will you please answer to me why are you now typing in Latin alphabet?? That has roots in ancient Greek alphabet, which has roots in Phoenician (Semitic) alphabet ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet#Origins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet#Origins


Do i have to remind you that J-M205 was found in ancient Sidon 1600 BCE, specifically where this alphabet originates?

A7AkvTe.jpg




+ add two new J-M205 samples from recent ancient Roman study.

Ok, so you finally admit it isn't Albanian it just became so like the i2s, question is was this male accepted into the community or did he rape a lady and she kept the boy?

I understand you showing me these points on the map and their reputed years but this doesn't tell where this haplogroup was during AD, did a tribe form later on somewhere? Tell me WHERE this specific haplogroup is found MOST, this is the most important thing here

Either way, it looks like it's either early Jewish with your map or arab but I'd still like to know where it is found most TODAY
 
These are not "points on the map", its places and dates where J2-M205 ancient DNA was found. As i already told you ancient DNA is most important when looking at haplogroup origin.
J2-M205 would be best if designated as Middle Eastern and Mediterranean. Also J2-M205 is definitely Albanian since we find it from north to south in multiple branches.
Albanians are Mediterranean population and if we would not find J2-M205 among Albanians it would be very strange. J2-M205 was probably among first haplogroups that sailed Mediterranean Sea where Albanian shores are also part of that Mediteranean Sea. Therefore when Albanian ethnos formed, J2-M205 was already present with high technology within Mediterranean Sea and in one way or another it shaped Albanian nation just as it did all other nations of Middle East and Mediterranean Sea.


There is no point in debating with you because as seen your understanding capabilities are very low. Also you are trølling entire time with stupid jokes and broken English. In real life you are probably some pathetic kid.

To be honest with mentioning drugs and rape in forums like this you are just embarrassing your family and where you come from, and if you are Albanian at all which i doubt since you posted that Poreklo map that was uploaded only 2 hours before you posted it here, i would ask you to stop it and disable your account and stop embarrassing yourself further. Not even being tested, and hiding behind random name on forum then again displaying stupidity all over does not really impress me too much. You got a lot to work on yourself. With your mentality you are like half-human at the moment.

Btw reported again because of mentioning raping of woman in trølling fashion and other beautiful things that you are culturally enriched with.
 
Anyways, regarding Albanians, our southern branch has done bigY and uploaded to Yfull recently. Even tho we first thought that its CTS1969 negative according to YSEQ SNP test, after doing FTDNA BigY it turned out CTS1969 positive.
Which is btw what we were expecting since beginning.

So far two Albanian J-M205 branches that are deeply tested belong to subclades:


North J2b-M205>PF7321>CTS1969>YP51>Y22075>Y22059*

South J2b-M205>PF7321>CTS1969*


There is also another southern branch in Albanian project labeled "General", which would be helpful if it would do BigY, and there is potentially fourth branch in Central Albania as i mentioned earlier from public studies but we still dont have them in project.


Also regarding J-M205 in general i see there is many interesting changes in Yfull but many of them are under analysis or they haven't been yet calculated therefore i will wait for new Yfull version to update so we can see what we can make out of these new samples.

So far most interesting are samples under CTS1969 with ID YF17356 and YF13211 which according to Yfull analysis have over 100 novel SNPs and therefore upping entire J2-M205 TMRCA from 5800 to 8300 ybp.
I am not sure is this current glitch in Yfull or realistic situation. I cant see such novel SNPs in FTDNA therefore these samples are either tested in Dante Labs or some other company or this is indeed a glitch.

Lets wait new version of Yfull then it will be more clear.
 
These are not "points on the map", its places and dates where J2-M205 ancient DNA was found. As i already told you ancient DNA is most important when looking at haplogroup origin.
J2-M205 would be best if designated as Middle Eastern and Mediterranean. Also J2-M205 is definitely Albanian since we find it from north to south in multiple branches.
Albanians are Mediterranean population and if we would not find J2-M205 among Albanians it would be very strange. J2-M205 was probably among first haplogroups that sailed Mediterranean Sea where Albanian shores are also part of that Mediteranean Sea. Therefore when Albanian ethnos formed, J2-M205 was already present with high technology within Mediterranean Sea and in one way or another it shaped Albanian nation just as it did all other nations of Middle East and Mediterranean Sea.
There is no point in debating with you because as seen your understanding capabilities are very low. Also you are trølling entire time with stupid jokes and broken English. In real life you are probably some pathetic kid.
To be honest with mentioning drugs and rape in forums like this you are just embarrassing your family and where you come from, and if you are Albanian at all which i doubt since you posted that Poreklo map that was uploaded only 2 hours before you posted it here, i would ask you to stop it and disable your account and stop embarrassing yourself further. Not even being tested, and hiding behind random name on forum then again displaying stupidity all over does not really impress me too much. You got a lot to work on yourself. With your mentality you are like half-human at the moment.
Btw reported again because of mentioning raping of woman in trølling fashion and other beautiful things that you are culturally enriched with.

No one cares about your feelings, we are here to discuss j2b m205 and the proof is it has nothing to do with albanians. One being found there whatever years ago doesn't mean anything, the subclade is non existant amongst albanians, 5% more in Serbs and even more in middle east

Get over it and face the facts. Percentages are the only thing that matters, j2b m205 is a tiny outlier in Albania and therefore it is foreign, go look elsewhere for the origin, don't talk nonsense about my people. Also reported for avoiding swear filters, hypocrite
 
Get over it and face the facts. Percentages are the only thing that matters, j2b m205 is a tiny outlier in Albania and therefore it is foreign, go look elsewhere for the origin, don't talk nonsense about my people. Also reported for avoiding swear filters, hypocrite
I really don't understand why you go around making statements when you know nothing about Y-DNA haplogroups, or genetics in general for that matter. Percentages mean nothing, provide evidence/explanations or stop yammering on.

What do you mean "my people"? He's an Albanian and that's that. Also, isn't your surname of Italian origin? Stop being insecure and test.
 

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