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Thread: Ashkenazi R1a1a-new Behar paper

  1. #1
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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

    Ashkenazi R1a1a-new Behar paper

    "Dr. Doron Behar's new paper on R1a1a Ashkenazi Levites, The genetic variation in the R1a clade among the Ashkenazi Levites' Y chromosome, was published this morning. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14761-7 (I am fortunate to be one of the co-authors of the article.)

    The paper concludes that: (1) all R1a1a Ashkenazi Levites share the Y-DNA SNP Y2619 and are descended from a single Jewish, Levite man who lived about 1,743 years ago; and (2) that man's line lived in the Middle East as of 3,000 years ago and was likely a minor branch among the Hebrews. A summary of the paper is posted at https://sites.google.com/site/levite...kenazi-levites"
    http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?p=445046

    I don't know if it's my browser, or the Nature site is temporarily down, but I can't access the official link.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14761-7

    I did find the abstract: Seems like the Babylonian Captivity might be a good bet.
    "Approximately 300,000 men around the globe self-identify as Ashkenazi Levites, of whom two thirds were previously shown to descend from a single male. The paucity of whole Y-chromosome sequences precluded conclusive identification of this ancestor’s age, geographic origin and migration patterns. Here, we report the variation of 486 Y-chromosomes within the Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Levite R1a clade, other Ashkenazi Jewish paternal lineages, as well as non-Levite Jewish and non-Jewish R1a samples. Cumulatively, the emerging profile is of a Middle Eastern ancestor, self-affiliating as Levite, and carrying the highly resolved R1a-Y2619 lineage, which was likely a minor haplogroup among the Hebrews. A star-like phylogeny, coalescing similarly to other Ashkenazi paternal lineages, ~1,743 ybp, suggests it to be one of the Ashkenazi paternal founders; to have expanded as part of the overall Ashkenazi demographic expansion, without special relation to the Levite affiliation; and to have subsequently spread to non-Ashkenazi Levites."




    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Some additional info from the FTDNA site by one of the co-authors:

    " The R1a-M582 cluster, to which the R1a-Y2619 Ashkenazi Levite cluster belongs, has origins in the Middle East as of about 3,000 years ago. The new paper identifies four R1a-M582 subclusters, all of which share a direct male ancestor who lived about 3,000 years ago: (1) the R1a-Y2619 subcluster; (2) a 1,200-year-old subcluster currently including an Iranian Kerman man, an Iranian Azeri man, and a Yazidi man; (3) a 2,700-year-old subcluster currently including an Iranian Azeri man and an Iberian man; and (4) a line, diverging from the other lines about 3,000 years ago, currently including an Iranian Kerman man. The fact that each of the three clusters other than the R1a-Y2619 cluster includes men with geographic origins in Iran suggests strongly that the R1a-M582 progenitor lived in that area."

    "
    The R1a-M582 cluster falls within the R1a-F1345 cluster, which shares a direct male ancestor who lived about 4,600 years ago. The new paper identifies five R1a-F1345 subclusters: (1) the R1a-M582 subcluster discussed in the prior paragraph; (2) a 900-year-old subcluster including two Israeli Arab men; (3) a 3,500 year-old subcluster including two North Balkarian men and a North Turkish man; (4) a 2,700-year-old subcluster including an Iranian Azeri man and a Spanish man; and (5) a 3,000-year-old subcluster including a Scottish man and a Polish man.

    4. The R1a-Y2619 Ashkenazi Levite cluster does not have origins in Khazaria. Not only did that line have origins in the Middle East as of 3,000 years ago, but the line was Jewish (and Levite) as of 1,750 years ago, more than 500 years before the Khazars (or, in some accounts, Khazarian royalty) are said to have converted to Judaism."

    "
    “[T]he exact migration pathway of R1a-Y2619 to Europe remains elusive.” Most historical records indicate that there were two major routes of Jewish migration to Europe: (1) Jewish migration via Italy to the Rhine Valley, the migratory pattern of Ashkenazi Jewry; and (2) Jewish migration along with Islamic expansion through North Africa and then to Spain, the migratory pattern of Sephardic Jewry. “Naturally, the strong founding event for R1a-Y2619 among Ashkenazi Jews, coupled with the presence of all known branches of R1a-Y2619 in Ashkenazi Jews, tempts to infer that its migration route from the Levant was directly related to the Ashkenazi founders,” but it is possible that R1a-Y2619 arrived with Sephardic Jews and expanded in the Ashkenazi population. In any event, the R1a-Y2619 line very likely arrived in Europe through a single expansion route, with the expansion of the population occurring after migration to Europe."

    "The currently available data does not allow a determination of how long before the time of the R1a-Y2619 progenitor that his line assumed Levite status. Absent Y-DNA test results for any men whose lines branched off in the 1,400 years between the time of the R1a-Y2619 progenitor (~1,743 years ago) and the time of the R1a-M582 progenitor (~3,143 years ago), this issue may remain unresolved."

    " The coalescence age and pattern of expansion of R1a-Y2619 Ashkenazi Levites are similar to those found in certain other major Ashkenazi Y-DNA haplogroups – G-M377 (coalescing ~1,223 ybp), Q-M242 (coalescing ~1,672 ybp), and E-Z838, E-PF3780, E-B923, and E-B933 (coalescing ~1,200 – 1,600 ybp). “This pattern of multiple founding events, not observed among Spanish Jews provides further support that the R1a-Y2619 Ashkenazi Levite ancestor entered Europe through the Ashkenazi route rather than via the Jewish expansion to the Iberian Peninsula.”



    4. The J1a-P58 Cohen cluster coalesces ~2,570 years ago, is nested within a Middle Eastern set of samples, and includes both Ashkenazi men and non-Ashkenazi Cohens. Accordingly, the J1a-P58 Cohen cluster, unlike the R1a-Y2619 Ashkenazi Levite cluster, began to expand in the Levant, in pre-Diaspora times."


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Are they saying the Khazars never existed or there were no Khazars that called themselves Cohen? Interesting. Khazars should be like the Seljuk Turks, R1a dominant, with minority of N, O, Q, J. Since there are practically no O European jews, you would think Khazars would be heavily R1a. Or are they saying no Khazar self-describes as an Ashkenazi jew, they all self-describe as Khazars, even though no Russian jews are offering themselves up for research as Khazar jews in any meaningful work, they are all practically Ashkenazi or Sephardic. There were many Central and West European jews that fled to Poland and were absorbed into Russia during the Partitions of Poland. These typically would not be R1a. The existing R1a Khazar jews that were absorbed into the principalities of Rus and elsewhere should still be showing up in DNA, there are no stories that the Khazars were wiped out, only Khazaria was wiped off the map.

    So to say all R1a1 Cohen jews share one common ancestor and this was not a Khazar jew when there once tens and hundreds of thousands of R1a1 Khazar jews centuries ago goes to my first statement: Are they saying the Khazars never existed or there were no Khazars that called themselves Cohen?

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    It isn't a Cohen clade at all, it's a Levite clade. Also, this isn't about all R1a carried by Jews, but a specific subclade of R1a. Presumably Khazars had R1a, but there's no reason it should have been this subclade.

    Are you saying ethnic Khazars actually still exist somewhere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Messier 67 View Post
    Are they saying the Khazars never existed or there were no Khazars that called themselves Cohen? Interesting. Khazars should be like the Seljuk Turks, R1a dominant, with minority of N, O, Q, J. Since there are practically no O European jews, you would think Khazars would be heavily R1a. Or are they saying no Khazar self-describes as an Ashkenazi jew, they all self-describe as Khazars, even though no Russian jews are offering themselves up for research as Khazar jews in any meaningful work, they are all practically Ashkenazi or Sephardic. There were many Central and West European jews that fled to Poland and were absorbed into Russia during the Partitions of Poland. These typically would not be R1a. The existing R1a Khazar jews that were absorbed into the principalities of Rus and elsewhere should still be showing up in DNA, there are no stories that the Khazars were wiped out, only Khazaria was wiped off the map. So to say all R1a1 Cohen jews share one common ancestor and this was not a Khazar jew when there once tens and hundreds of thousands of R1a1 Khazar jews centuries ago goes to my first statement: Are they saying the Khazars never existed or there were no Khazars that called themselves Cohen?
    The Khazar theory describes the 8th–9th centuries. This is referring to 1743 years ago. If anything it refutes the claim that R1a presence in Ashkenazis would validate the Khazar theory.

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    Hello. My name is Nuno. I'm from Portugal, south (Algarve). I recently discovered that my YDNA is R-M198 with exact matches on Z93 clade and R-M512 ash/lev distant relatives. I only testes 12 markers but got only one page of paternal matches. They all come from Jewish families from Bohemia. So i'm just starting to understand more the R1a1a. Cheers to all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nunofreiresilvameco View Post
    Hello. My name is Nuno. I'm from Portugal, south (Algarve). I recently discovered that my YDNA is R-M198 with exact matches on Z93 clade and R-M512 ash/lev distant relatives. I only testes 12 markers but got only one page of paternal matches. They all come from Jewish families from Bohemia. So i'm just starting to understand more the R1a1a. Cheers to all.
    Hello Nuno, have you joined R1a Project at FTDNA? Here it is: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    r1a is a central asian hablogroup. i think sumerian people come from there with holy r1a hablogroups years ago

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    Angry Ashkenazi from Bohemia?

    Quote Originally Posted by nunofreiresilvameco View Post
    Hello. My name is Nuno. I'm from Portugal, south (Algarve). I recently discovered that my YDNA is R-M198 with exact matches on Z93 clade and R-M512 ash/lev distant relatives. I only testes 12 markers but got only one page of paternal matches. They all come from Jewish families from Bohemia. So i'm just starting to understand more the R1a1a. Cheers to all.
    Hello Nuño,
    I have ancestor from Bohemia surname Werner. Family arrived in America in 1868. Closest male line cousin of this family also R-M198. Another autosomal match with this surname going back to Kutná Hora a few kilometers southeast of Prague in Bohemia, where some of the name are buried at a Jewish cemetery located in a field nearby of Malešov. R-M198 is way upstream so unclear whether they have R1a-Y2619 DNA.

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