Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 49 of 49

Thread: Is there a Y-DNA haplogroup associated with Neanderthals?

  1. #26
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    08-12-18
    Posts
    62


    Country: UK - England



    0 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    This rubbish that Europeans developed white skin only 6000 years ago also needs to come to an end. Both Cheddar Man and LaBrana Man were likely South Asian in origin. LaBrana Man carried Haplogroup Y-DNA C6 and its likely Cheddar Man also carried this Haplogroup. Haplogroup C is South Asian in origin.

    If Neanderthal genes are still influencing the skin colour and hair colour of modern Eurasians, its likely this goes back to the interbreeding with Neanderthals.

    Oldest remains found with blonde hair is dated 15 000 years and the remains were found in Russia. Oldest European with blonde hair, blue eyes and white skin is dated 7700 years and was found in Sweden.

    7700 Motala Man:



  2. #27
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigblob View Post
    DNA taken from Neanderthals shows they had light skin, blonde hair and blue eyes or olive skin, dark hair and eyes depending where they lived.
    It doesn't show that.

    So you have blonde, blue eyed, white modern Europeans. What are the chances they are not Neanderthal hybrids?


    Native Americans have much more Neanderthal admixture than Europeans, as do many East Eurasian populations. Those aren't blond or very lightly pigmented as a rule.

  3. #28
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    08-12-18
    Posts
    62


    Country: UK - England



    East Asians interbred with the Denisovan twice:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0315140718.htm
    Native Americans carried Denisovan DNA:
    https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/32/10/2665/1210305

    The Denisovan probably resembled Mongolians. Europeans have only Neanderthal DNA.

  4. #29
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigblob View Post
    East Asians interbred with the Denisovan twice:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0315140718.htm
    Native Americans carried Denisovan DNA:
    https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/32/10/2665/1210305

    The Denisovan probably resembled Mongolians. Europeans have only Neanderthal DNA.
    The ancestors of Asian went through more admixture events with Neanderthals however, consistent with higher admixture proportions in present populations. Hall (2016):



    Archaic admixture is still very low in any case. It's very unlikely it influenced the morphology of Eurasian populations. That's a recent adaption.

  5. #30
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    16-10-17
    Posts
    222
    Points
    1,709
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,709, Level: 11
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    H2a1 M9313
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c3

    Country: UK - England



    There was an article by 'Wikipedia', under the heading 'Genetic history of Europe', that some authors believed 'Y H2' was associated with and carried genetic inheritance from Neanderthals.
    I only came across this reference by browsing Y H2, and I do not know if any follow up was made regarding these lines of thought.

    Type 'Genetic history of Europe' into google and look under the Palaeolithic heading second paragraph,onwards, and I think the later reference to the 'F' haplogroup may refer to todays 'Y H2', as it is confusing that some 'F's were later changed to the Y H2 haplogroup.

  6. #31
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    08-12-18
    Posts
    62


    Country: UK - England



    There is an interesting article on Wiki about Y-DNA H2:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(Y-DNA)
    H2 is an ancient Haplogroup found in Europe and West Asia. Neanderthals could have carried it and Im sure there are many ancient Haplogroups given to Neandertals by modern humans and Neanderthals to modern humans. I just wish scientist could take Haplogroups from ancient Neanderthal remains. I think the results would be very interesting.

  7. #32
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-05-17
    Posts
    2,903
    Points
    36,236
    Level
    58
    Points: 36,236, Level: 58
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 414
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Is there a Y-DNA haplogroup associated with Neanderthals?

    Much younger Haplogroups went extinct, even 5.300 years old Ötzi mtDNA died out.

    ... The study concluded that the Iceman's maternal line—named K1f—is now extinct....

    ...Ötzi's paternal genetic line (y G2a) is still present in modern-day populations...

    https://m.phys.org/news/2016-01-disc...c-history.html
    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

  8. #33
    Moderator Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,727
    Points
    26,994
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,994, Level: 50
    Level completed: 45%, Points required for next Level: 556
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    The researchers determined DNA sequences of the neanderthals, but did not know what they had on the Y chromosome!?
    The thing is that all the Y-DNA haplogroups found until now in humans fit perfectly well in the phylogenetic tree tracing back to the clades of African basal haplogroups A and BT. There has been no exception. It's virtually impossible that Neanderthals, having split from AMH some 700,000 years ago, would have Y-DNA haplogroups that fit somewhere in that Y-DNA phylogenetic tree. The earliest Y-DNA haplogroup, "Adam haplogroup", dates to "only" 200,000 years ago. By the way, scientists have extracted the Y-DNA markers of a Neanderthal male. They estimated the divergence in paternal lineages between Neanderthals and humans at ~588,000 years ago.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4833433/

    We investigate its divergence from orthologous chimpanzee and modern human sequences and find strong support for a model that places the Neandertal lineage as an outgroup to modern human Y chromosomes—including A00, the highly divergent basal haplogroup. We estimate that the time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) of Neandertal and modern human Y chromosomes is ∼588 thousand years ago (kya) (95% confidence interval [CI]: 447–806 kya). This is ∼2.1 (95% CI: 1.7–2.9) times longer than the TMRCA of A00 and other extant modern human Y-chromosome lineages.

  9. #34
    Moderator Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,727
    Points
    26,994
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,994, Level: 50
    Level completed: 45%, Points required for next Level: 556
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigblob View Post
    This rubbish that Europeans developed white skin only 6000 years ago also needs to come to an end. Both Cheddar Man and LaBrana Man were likely South Asian in origin. LaBrana Man carried Haplogroup Y-DNA C6 and its likely Cheddar Man also carried this Haplogroup. Haplogroup C is South Asian in origin.

    If Neanderthal genes are still influencing the skin colour and hair colour of modern Eurasians, its likely this goes back to the interbreeding with Neanderthals.

    Oldest remains found with blonde hair is dated 15 000 years and the remains were found in Russia. Oldest European with blonde hair, blue eyes and white skin is dated 7700 years and was found in Sweden.

    7700 Motala Man:


    Light (not necessarily "European pale") skin certainly predates 6000 years ago by a really large margin, but it's nonsense to say "haplogroup C is South Asian in origin, so Cheddar Man and La Brana were South Asian". By that same token, R1b and R1a probably come from P, and P also probably came from South Asia or Southeast Asia, so it seems R1b and R1a ancient males from Europe were no European either, but South/Southeast Asians. As I said, that statement does not make sense.

    Haplogroup C is very old (~53 kya), so by the time of La Brana there had been dozens of thousands of years for the dispersal of C males, and some clades of C are as old as or even older than the haplogroup R as a whole (R1*, R1a, R1b, R2)! Besides, Y-DNA haplogroups do not determine one's ancestry as a whole, actually it accounts for a tiny portion of one's ancestry and can easily become disconnected from the autosomal DNA. Cheddar Man and La Brana were WHG, and EHG were nothing but WHG + a bit of ANE and CHG-like. By that token then there are actually no Europeans at all, because all of them come from WHG ("South Asian" apparently if we're going to determine that based on the origin of the most basal form of Y-DNA haplogroups), EHG (also "South Asian", but with "West Asian" and "North Asian"), ANF ("West Asian") and later extra CHG and Iran_Neolithic ("West Asian" too). If people like La Brana and Cheddar Man, who lived in Europe since the Late Paleolithic at least, were not indigenous Europeans, then no one else is.

    I'm not sure the Motala man had blonde hair, are you sure about that? The main fact I believe light skin (but I think it was initially more "Sicilian light skin" than "Scandinavian light skin") dates to before 10,000 years ago is that the main genes for light skin were present (not necessarily together yet) in ANF, CHG, Iran_Neolithic (only SLC24A5, though), Levant_Neolithic, EHG and SHG. Those populations had diverged from each other much earlier and lived too far from each other, but by the Early Neolithic they all had some of the main mutations for light skin. That suggests to me that there had been enough time for the derived alleles to spread significantly, even if they were not fixed yet.

    As for Neanderthal genes influencing in skin and hair color, scientists have already asserted that the gene alleles contributed by Neanderthals are NOT the main determinants of light skin and light hair in modern West Eurasians (or East Eurasians for that matter). The case seems one of convergent evolution, because the alleles humans inherited from neanderthals have a minor contribution, they're not decisive like the skin-lightening mutations in SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 in modern West Eurasians. Remember that skin color is defined by at least 70 (IIRC) different gene variants, it's a cumulative trait, but a few of them have a much higher impact than others. In my opinion, it's probable that Northwest Eurasian people who lacked the main derived alleles that are decisive to "modern" light skin already looked lighter than, say, their tropical African or South Asian cousins, but those mutations they carried were not "powerful" enough to make them look anything close to a white skin. They were probably moderately brown.

  10. #35
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    22-12-18
    Posts
    1
    Points
    22
    Level
    1
    Points: 22, Level: 1
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    Have any paternal haplogroups attributed to Neanderthals survived to this day or would their DNA be far too diluted?

    When we test Neanderthal remains, what paternal haplogroup shows up?


    Nice topic,thank you.

  11. #36
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    08-12-18
    Posts
    62


    Country: UK - England



    Humans were interbreeding with Neanderthals 200 000 years ago.
    https://www.sciencealert.com/this-ne...ribe-of-humans

    The oldest modern human found is dated 300 000 years:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebel_Irhoud

    The oldest human/ Homo erectus hybrid is dated to 260 000 years and was found in China:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Man

    Humanity did not originate from one group of humans in one part of Africa, but from many different modern humans who likely did not resemble each other. There were many migrations Out of Africa:
    http://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2...in-africa.html

    Neanderthals were interbreeding with modern humans long before the supposed migration of modern humans 70 000 years ago.

  12. #37
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    08-12-18
    Posts
    62


    Country: UK - England



    First European with blonde hair is dated 16 000 years and was found in Russia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afontova_Gora
    Ancient Northern hunter gatherers had blonde hair and blue eyes:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond#Asia

  13. #38
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    08-12-18
    Posts
    62


    Country: UK - England



    Neanderthal genes play a part in hair and skin colour and the ability to tan:
    https://www.livescience.com/60691-ha...nderthals.html
    Neanderthal genes also influenced the way modern humans behave and their immunity system.
    https://www.research-in-germany.org/...this-day-.html

    Europeans are nothing but Neanderthal hybrids looking just like their ancient ancestors. Asians also carry Denisovan DNA from interbreeding with 2 different groups of Denisovan.

    Neanderthal recreated looking like a modern European:

  14. #39
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    08-12-18
    Posts
    62


    Country: UK - England



    Ancient hunter - gather Motala Man dated 7700 had the gene for white skin
    http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/04...-skoglund.html

    Ancient 6500 year old migrants to Israel had fair skin and blue eyes:
    https://www.livescience.com/63396-an...rkey-iran.html

  15. #40
    Junior Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-07-17
    Posts
    3
    Points
    1,687
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,687, Level: 11
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 163
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Country: Spain



    interesting

  16. #41
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    05-02-12
    Posts
    15
    Points
    5,750
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,750, Level: 22
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 300
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1-U106/S21
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1

    Ethnic group
    Germanic Celtic
    Country: France



    Neanderthal is not extinct , 23andme gave me 313 neanderthal variants , which is "more than 94% of their customers" , which count they say for less than 4% of total DNA !

  17. #42
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    10-02-18
    Location
    Nyírbátor, Szabolcs county
    Posts
    87
    Points
    1,767
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,767, Level: 11
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 83
    Overall activity: 6.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-Y81971; R1a-YP415;
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H16f

    Ethnic group
    hungarian, ruthenian, celtic, proto-german, scandinavian
    Country: Hungary



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Magdolna's
    Neanderthal variants


    321 This is more than
    97% of 23andMe Customers

  18. #43
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    29-04-18
    Posts
    56
    Points
    1,888
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,888, Level: 12
    Level completed: 13%, Points required for next Level: 262
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Country: Norway



    The genes causing light skin in humans were present very far back in human history, long before the latest out-of-Africa event. They were just really, really rare. The environment selected against any concentration. The appearance of European-type light skin was a development of genes clustering, not genes appearing.

  19. #44
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,714
    Points
    21,584
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,584, Level: 44
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 66
    Overall activity: 99.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    How the DNA of a Neanderthal could have shaped some human brains

    Genetic variants acquired through crosslinking seem to give some people with European ancestry more elongated brains.



    No human has the brain of a Neanderthal, but some have indications of its form.

    https://www.mundiario.com/articulo/s...330140609.html

  20. #45
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-05-17
    Posts
    2,903
    Points
    36,236
    Level
    58
    Points: 36,236, Level: 58
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 414
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    How the DNA of a Neanderthal could have shaped some human brains

    Genetic variants acquired through crosslinking seem to give some people with European ancestry more elongated brains.



    No human has the brain of a Neanderthal, but some have indications of its form.

    https://www.mundiario.com/articulo/s...330140609.html
    What are you saying? grrr lol

    If my results are correct, I Learn as a Neanderthal.
    I don't know if it’s good or bad :)
    I guss I have the IQ of The Beast. LOL


  21. #46
    Banned Achievements:
    7 days registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    20-10-19
    Posts
    52
    Points
    534
    Level
    5
    Points: 534, Level: 5
    Level completed: 84%, Points required for next Level: 16
    Overall activity: 63.0%


    Ethnic group
    Român
    Country: Romania



    In my mind, I think the Neanderthal had a bigger and longer... psychology.

  22. #47
    Banned Achievements:
    7 days registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    20-10-19
    Posts
    52
    Points
    534
    Level
    5
    Points: 534, Level: 5
    Level completed: 84%, Points required for next Level: 16
    Overall activity: 63.0%


    Ethnic group
    Român
    Country: Romania



    Quote Originally Posted by kuzmosi View Post
    Magdolna's
    Neanderthal variants


    321 This is more than
    97% of 23andMe Customers
    BRB lol.

  23. #48
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,714
    Points
    21,584
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,584, Level: 44
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 66
    Overall activity: 99.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    It seems a good reconstruction since most do not seem objective and the result is as if they were characterized modern humans.



  24. #49
    Banned Achievements:
    7 days registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    20-10-19
    Posts
    52
    Points
    534
    Level
    5
    Points: 534, Level: 5
    Level completed: 84%, Points required for next Level: 16
    Overall activity: 63.0%


    Ethnic group
    Român
    Country: Romania



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    It seems a good reconstruction since most do not seem objective and the result is as if they were characterized modern humans.


    Ours gray hair brothers, Lol.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •