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Thread: Is there a Y-DNA haplogroup associated with Neanderthals?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Is there a Y-DNA haplogroup associated with Neanderthals?

    Have any paternal haplogroups attributed to Neanderthals survived to this day or would their DNA be far too diluted?

    When we test Neanderthal remains, what paternal haplogroup shows up?

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    There is no paternal Neanderthal haplogroup surviving in humans, HSS.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    The big question is whether a DNA testing company will catch it if someone tests with them who has a Neanderthal haplogroup. Their software might simply assign that person the best matching human Y haplogroup, and they would never know unless they had an expert look at their raw data.

    Neanderthals had non-human Y haplogroups that split off between 450,000 and 600,000 years ago.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Neanderthal Y-chromosome is lost as I understand it.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    "When we test Neanderthal remains, what paternal haplogroup shows up?" This is what I am also interested in and hoping someone will be able to answer it.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    No Neanderthal yDna survives because the male offspring often had reproductive problems. Numerous papers have discussed it.

    You can use the search engine to find them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    "When we test Neanderthal remains, what paternal haplogroup shows up?" This is what I am also interested in and hoping someone will be able to answer it.
    This is an interesting and exciting idea. Would be great to see phylogenetic trees extending to all our cousins with both Ydna and mtdna

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    "When we test Neanderthal remains, what paternal haplogroup shows up?" This is what I am also interested in and hoping someone will be able to answer it.
    A Neanderthal Y haplogroup shows up. It doesn't fall under any of our haplogroups, it is a distant cousin to all of them, and all of ours are much more closely related to each other than to the Neanderthal haplogroup. It's equivalent to A000 (that is, upstream of even the oldest living human Y haplogroup, which is A00).

    When they get enough Neanderthal Y haplogroups they may assign them their own names, but they won't mean the same thing as the modern human ones.

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    When we test Neanderthal remains, what paternal haplogroup shows up?
    A000 is still too close to us. They should be on an entire new alphabet, something like haplogroup α or א.

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    Worldwide distribution of B006 haplotype based on a sample of 6,092 X-chromosomes.

    The following study by Yotova et al. (2011) identified that the B006 haplotype is derived from Neanderthals. The authors found that all derived alleles shared with Neanderthals occur at high frequncies on the back ground of the extended B006 haplotype as expected in a segment of recent Neandertal origin.

    To the admixed haplotypes from the bulk of genomic diversity, we assume that modern humans left Africa somewhere between 80–50 thousand years ago (Kya) and that at that time Neandertals occupied western Eurasia (Stringer 2002; Klein 2003; Mellars 2006; Oppenheimer 2009; Petraglia et al. 2010). Because these populations diverged 400–800 Kya, a number of derived alleles present in the Neandertal DNA can be expected to segregate in all human populations including sub-Saharan Africans. In contrast, segments in human DNA that were subsequently admixed outside Africa are expected to carry additional derived alleles shared with Neandertals but absent in sub-Saharan Africans. The admixed haplotypes are also expected to be younger, that is, less diversified by recombination than the average African haplotypes at the same loci. Ideally, the allelic structure of these haplotypes would differ from the bulk of the common haplotypes reflecting their origin along a separately evolving lineage.

    An X-linked haplotype that fulfills these characteristics occurs in an 8-Kb intronic segment spanning exon 44 of the dystrophin gene, referred to as dys44 (Zietkiewicz et al. 1997). We analyzed dys44 polymorphisms in a sample of 6,092 X-chromosomes representing populations from all habitable continents (supplementary table S1, Supplementary Material online), including previously published data (Labuda, Labuda, et al. 2000; Zietkiewicz et al. 2003; Xiao et al. 2004; Lovell et al. 2005; Bourgeois et al. 2009). We focus on the 12 major dys44 haplotypes that explain 89% of genetic diversity in non-Africans and 67% in sub-Saharan Africans (table 1). Of these, haplotype B006 is structurally distinct; with only four derived alleles, it is the closest to the ancestral one. Common outside Africa and virtually absent in sub-Saharan Africa (fig. 1), B006 was earlier proposed to represent an unknown non-African contribution to the human gene pool (Zietkiewicz et al. 2003). Of 1,420 sub-Saharan chromosomes, only one copy of B006 was observed in Ethiopia, and five in Burkina Faso, one among the Rimaibe and four among the Fulani and Tuareg, nomad-pastoralists known for having contacts with northern populations (supplementary table S1, Supplementary Material online). B006 only occurrence at the northern and northeastern outskirts of sub-Saharan Africa is thus likely to be a result of gene flow from a non-African source.

    Twelve of the 35 dys44 polymorphisms available in the HapMap3 database are sufficient to identify the 12 major dys44 haplotypes presented in table 1. In the considered HapMap3 populations (supplementary table S1, Supplementary Material online), these haplotypes represent 369 of 523 (70.6%) sub-Saharan chromosomes and 815 of 891 (91.5%) non-African chromosomes that include 77 copies of B006. We extended the dys44 8-kb region by 28 additional polymorphisms on the left and 49 on the right (108 kb in total) to include sites that by inspection appeared to maintain some degree of linkage disequilibrium with the B006 haplotype (fig. 3). In the Neandertal sequence, no information is available for 28 of these sites, 36 sites represent ancestral alleles and 13 derived alleles. Importantly, three of the derived alleles (rs17243319, rs1456729, and rs11796299 in supplementary table S2, Supplementary Material online) are absent from the African chromosomes, as in the case of the derived G of rs11795471 from within B006. Moreover, all derived alleles shared with Neandertals occur at high frequencies (0.75 and more) on a background of the extended B006 haplotype (fig. 3 and supplementary table S2, Supplementary Material online) as expected in a segment of recent Neandertal origin.

    https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article...rtal-Origin-Is
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    A Neanderthal Y haplogroup shows up. It doesn't fall under any of our haplogroups, it is a distant cousin to all of them, and all of ours are much more closely related to each other than to the Neanderthal haplogroup. It's equivalent to A000 (that is, upstream of even the oldest living human Y haplogroup, which is A00).
    A000 would indeed be the proper haplogroup name, but that would then also be the Y haplogroup for Denisovans and Humans. Humans would then likely be the A000a branch (leading to A00), Neanderthals would be A000b1a and Denisovans A000b1b. I'm not sure if that's correct, see the image below which appears to be based on a combination of yDNA and mtDNA.


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Talking

    Humans would be A00'0'1, Neanderthals would be A000a, Denisovans A000b, and the root of all of them would be A000'00'0'1. Which would be some ugly terminology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Humans would be A00'0'1, Neanderthals would be A000a, Denisovans A000b, and the root of all of them would be A000'00'0'1. Which would be some ugly terminology.
    It's possible scientists kind of messed up with their new designations. We'll probably see some convention at one point where they get the naming straightened out.

    It's highly impractical to keep adding zeros the way we have been. We're probably at A000-T for the common ancestor of humans. Neanderthals and Denisovans would then be A0000-T.

    This would make the root haplogroup of all three A00000-T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    It's possible scientists kind of messed up with their new designations. We'll probably see some convention at one point where they get the naming straightened out.

    It's highly impractical to keep adding zeros the way we have been. We're probably at A000-T for the common ancestor of humans. Neanderthals and Denisovans would then be A0000-T.

    This would make the root haplogroup of all three A00000-T.
    Why add zeroes when you can just increment by one? A0 then A1 etc. When you reach 9 at the end and wish to add another haplogroup with the A then something pattern, attach a zero to the end -A90.

    Just my 2 cents
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    So let me clarify some things for my readers as not all are interested in research: The mtDNA of Neanderthals didn't "get lost". But the Y-DNA did?

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    Question is the Y-DNA B006 a descendant of the y-DNA BT to Y-DNA B?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank A. Fontana DC View Post
    Question is the Y-DNA B006 a descendant of the y-DNA BT to Y-DNA B?
    B006 is not a Y haplogroup. It is a variant of part of a gene on the X chromosome which makes a muscle fiber protein.

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    ISOGG Y-Tree 2018 has Denisovan (A0000) and Neanderthal (A000) in it. The reference is somewhere there?

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    Bear in mind Neanderthals did not all carry the exact same Y-DNA and MTDNA. Also, modern humans migrated Out of Africa many. many times with a hybrid modern human found in China and dated 260 000 years. A 200 000 year old Neanderthal found in Germany, carried human DNA. Its very likely that many ancient Neanderthals carried modern human Haplogroups long before the supposedly 70 000 year migration Out of Africa.

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    The researchers determined DNA sequences of the neanderthals, but did not know what they had on the Y chromosome!?

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    A human female interbred with a Neanderthal male 220 000 years ago, but for some strange reason scientists can't tell what Haplogroup it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblob View Post
    Bear in mind Neanderthals did not all carry the exact same Y-DNA and MTDNA. Also, modern humans migrated Out of Africa many. many times with a hybrid modern human found in China and dated 260 000 years. A 200 000 year old Neanderthal found in Germany, carried human DNA. Its very likely that many ancient Neanderthals carried modern human Haplogroups long before the supposedly 70 000 year migration Out of Africa.
    Huh. Cite for the German one, that is a new one for me?

    Anyway, the Y-chromosome is the only chromosome that does not have an identical match, so it does not exchange genes with a partner every generation. It wanders down the ages whistling with very little change, just stopping to pick up a shiny-looking mutation now and then. Speculation: But if you have two species with interfertility issues crossing, you will often see a male-line sterility so the Y-chromosome does not pass on.

    Despite overlapping with neanderthals for thousands of years, successful hybrids seem to have been rare. And mostly one way, Neanderthal DNA squired into the human lineages. Even late Neanderthals analysed to high coverage do not seem to carry human DNA. And it seems we did not breed with most Neanderthal lines we encountered.

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    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...0000-years-ago

    Its likely neanderthal Y-DNA is extinct in modern humans.

    There are plenty of Neanderthal hybrids found in Europe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagar_Velho_1
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C8%...cu_Oase#Oase_1

    Neanderthal DNA still influence skin colour and hair colour of modern humans and behaviour:
    https://www.seeker.com/culture/behav...r-of-modern-hu
    Neanderthal DNA influenced the shape of modern European brain and skull. Neanderthal gees still influencing the immune system of Eurasians
    Looking for Neanderthal hybrids? Look at modern Europeans. Asians also interbred with Denisovan at least twice.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Neanderthals did not become extinct, they became modern humans. DNA taken from Neanderthals shows they had light skin, blonde hair and blue eyes or olive skin, dark hair and eyes depending where they lived.

    So you have blonde, blue eyed, white modern Europeans. What are the chances they are not Neanderthal hybrids?

    Neanderthal looking EXACTLY like a modern European:

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    This nonsense that modern humans only left Africa 70 000 years ago needs to come to an end. The oldest modern human/Homo erectus hybrid has been found in China and is dated 260 000 years:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dali_Man

    Also, this story that humans all came from the same group of ancient humans needs to end:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0711114544.htm

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