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Thread: Upcoming paper on Bronze Age Canaanites

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

    Upcoming paper on Bronze Age Canaanites

    This should be a good one; hope it comes out soon...

    "The genetic origin and heritage of Bronze Age Canaanites

    Shai Carmi and David Reich



    "Canaanites were the indigenous population of the Southern Levant during the 2nd millennium BCE. Their genetic origin and impact on modern populations have recently started to unravel following an analysis of a Lebanese sample. To study Canaanites from other Levant regions and their genomic heritage in the broader Middle East, we sequenced five petrous bones from Megiddo, Israel, dated to the Middle/Late Bronze Age (BA) transition (≈3.5 KYA). We enriched the DNA for approximately 1.2 million SNP targets, followed by sequencing at coverage >0.25x. Using a combination of statistical tools (PCA, f-statistics, ADMIXTURE, qpAdm), we found that the Megiddo samples can be modeled as a mixture of earlier samples from the Levant and Iran, the latter possibly representing migration via Armenia. The Megiddo samples showed high similarity to older Levant BA samples, as well as to a later Iron Age (IA, ≈3 KYA) sample that we sequenced from Abel Beth Maacah in Northern Israel. The genomes of modern native Levantine populations trace ≈60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites, ≈10% to Eastern Africa, and the remaining to less well characterized sources, possibly related to Iran. The genomes of Ashkenazi Jews can be modeled as ≈55% BA Canaanites and ≈45% Neolithic Central Europeans, and those of Iraqi Jews as ≈70% BA Canaanites and ≈30% Neolithic Iranians. To validate the results, we developed a novel extension of ChromoPainter that can take advantage of the information in linked SNPs to paint ancient chromosomes and model their ancestry. Our results confirm previous findings regarding the mixed Levantine-Iranian ancestry of BA Canaanites, and suggest remarkable continuity in the region throughout the Bronze and Iron Ages. Using existing and new methods, we characterized the ancestry of modern Middle-Eastern populations as a combination of pre-existing groups from the Middle-East and beyond."

    This is great stuff. They have sequenced bones from Megiddo in 1500 BC and one Iron Age sample from Northern Israel dated to 1000 BC. This is the time of Saul and David.

    What differences exist from prior samples seem to have been from continued migration from areas around Armenia.

    I definitely want to see the data for this:
    "The genomes of Ashkenazi Jews can be modeled as ≈55% BA Canaanites and ≈45% Neolithic Central Europeans, and those of Iraqi Jews as ≈70% BA Canaanites and ≈30% Neolithic Iranians."

    That would change what Shai Carmi has believed for years, i.e. that the Ashkenazi ethnogenesis involved absorption of Italian genes before the movement to the Rhineland. Or, perhaps that's one way they can be modeled, but not the only or the best way.

    This new extension of ChromoPainter is potentially very important as well.


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    I don't know the different origins of Ashkenazi and Iraqi and other Jews.
    But I wonder whether the Jews could have been a multi-ethnic confederation of herders at their origin.
    Or were they all 100 % BA Canaanites? How would the Ashkenazi then have gotten Neolithic European during the iron age?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I don't know the different origins of Ashkenazi and Iraqi and other Jews.
    But I wonder whether the Jews could have been a multi-ethnic confederation of herders at their origin.
    Or were they all 100 % BA Canaanites? How would the Ashkenazi then have gotten Neolithic European during the iron age?
    Seems like they were all originally BA Canaanites. My guess is the Neolithic Central European is possibly a proxy for a southern European population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I don't know the different origins of Ashkenazi and Iraqi and other Jews.
    But I wonder whether the Jews could have been a multi-ethnic confederation of herders at their origin.
    Or were they all 100 % BA Canaanites? How would the Ashkenazi then have gotten Neolithic European during the iron age?
    I don't think it was a multi ethnic confederation. Its way more likely that Jews were completely Bronze Age Canaanite, and those who were captured by Babylonians were sent to Babylon and mixed with them (seems the babylonians had a lot of Iran Neolithic plus Levantine). Those left behind mixed with a population that had a real extreme Early European Farmer background, but never reached the Jews in Babylon.
    55 BA Canaanite 45 percent central euro farmer resembles a child of a Levantine and someone with 90 percent EEF and 10 percent Levantine ancestry.

    All of this is speculation btw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Promenade View Post
    Seems like they were all originally BA Canaanites. My guess is the Neolithic Central European is possibly a proxy for a southern European population.
    This is what it sounds like to me as well. I'm very interested to see the actual data. I also think it will be interesting to see the comparison of specifically the Northern Israel Iron Age sample with other populations.

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    Modern Levantines trace 60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites 10% to East Africa and the rest (30% ??) to less well-characterized sources? possibly related to Iran. I thought the increase in Iran related ancestry in modern Levantines with respect to the earlier BA Levant came from the Maryannu of the Middle Bronze Age, many had Indo-Aryan names, probably arriving from south central asia? but aren't they a bit late according to this paper ? if it wasn't detected in the Iron Age? am I missing something?

    Greece and Sicily could be the Neolithic proxy, as there is Y-dna in Ashkenazi that better attributed to them rather than the Ancient Levant, E-V13, I2c2, J2-M319, R1b-Z2013 and others, or it could be a result of an Aegean migration to the Levant way earlier, I don't know.

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    Im about to give up on anthrogenica. They're still shooting for the 57 percent Samaritan 32 percent north Italian 7 percent Slavic 4 percent avar fit as if the phd's in this study don't know what they're talking about.

    55 percent Bronze Age Canaanite 45 percent EEF is the best we got so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    Modern Levantines trace 60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites 10% to East Africa and the rest (30% ??) to less well-characterized sources? possibly related to Iran. I thought the increase in Iran related ancestry in modern Levantines with respect to the earlier BA Levant came from the Maryannu of the Middle Bronze Age, many had Indo-Aryan names, probably arriving from south central asia? but aren't they a bit late according to this paper ? if it wasn't detected in the Iron Age? am I missing something?

    Greece and Sicily could be the Neolithic proxy, as there is Y-dna in Ashkenazi that better attributed to them rather than the Ancient Levant, E-V13, I2c2, J2-M319, R1b-Z2013 and others, or it could be a result of an Aegean migration to the Levant way earlier, I don't know.
    I'm wondering if they were able to get access to the Philistine ancient samples, and if not, what that would show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I don't know the different origins of Ashkenazi and Iraqi and other Jews.
    But I wonder whether the Jews could have been a multi-ethnic confederation of herders at their origin.
    Or were they all 100 % BA Canaanites? How would the Ashkenazi then have gotten Neolithic European during the iron age?
    My thoughts exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    Modern Levantines trace 60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites 10% to East Africa and the rest (30% ??) to less well-characterized sources? possibly related to Iran. I thought the increase in Iran related ancestry in modern Levantines with respect to the earlier BA Levant came from the Maryannu of the Middle Bronze Age, many had Indo-Aryan names, probably arriving from south central asia? but aren't they a bit late according to this paper ? if it wasn't detected in the Iron Age? am I missing something?

    Greece and Sicily could be the Neolithic proxy, as there is Y-dna in Ashkenazi that better attributed to them rather than the Ancient Levant, E-V13, I2c2, J2-M319, R1b-Z2013 and others, or it could be a result of an Aegean migration to the Levant way earlier, I don't know.
    I'm afraid, this paper will have low genetic "resolution", unfortunately.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm wondering if they were able to get access to the Philistine ancient samples, and if not, what that would show.
    If they're responsible for the 45 percent European Farmer score, I'll bet their EEF score is going to be huge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    If they're responsible for the 45 percent European Farmer score, I'll bet their EEF score is going to be huge.
    If Philistines did indeed come from the Aegean, then they will be a mixture of Mycenaean/Minoan and BA Levant, but I don't think they are responsible for the entire EEF admixture in Ashkenazi, otherwise all Jewish groups should have remained unaffected by foreign admixture like them, the only possible conclusion is it must have been real admixture from somewhere in the Meditteranean.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    This is how Ashkenazim score on average in Kurd's new calculator based on moderns:
    Caucasion-23.77
    SE European-32.35
    SC Asian-1.58
    SW European-7.99
    SW Asian-7.65
    NW European-1.24
    SC European-22.40
    C Asian 2-1.87

    Caucasian-Adygei, Kabdarin, Kuyk
    SE European-Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarians, Romanians
    SC Asian-Balochi, Brahui, Pakistani Parsis
    SW European-Spanish and Basques
    SW Asian- Bedouins and Saudis
    NW European-British, Irish, northwest French
    SC European-Sardinians and Sicilians
    C Asian 2-Kazakh, Tajik, Turkmen

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...nePlaza/page11

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    ^^So, about 60% modern Southern European cluster.

    Some of the models have gone that way in the academic papers, although if my memory serves Behar put the figure at closer to 40%.

    That all ate away at the SWAsian, apparently, leaving just Caucasus.

    I don't know how that squares with their similarity to groups like the Druse and Samaritans, who must have more SWAsian.

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    I know, I was a bit surprised since it doesn't fit academic models. The most common model is a 50 percent middle eastern then a majority Southern European like half and a dash of something more Northern.

    Cerain posters at anthrogenica are coming up with all sorts of crazy models, but one user (Bas) is arguing that the Southern European half is more Sardinian-like than Greek or Italian like. This is kind of interesting since the model we see here suggests 45 percent EEF, so maybe there were still populations that were overwhelmingly early farmer like the Minoans or Mycenaeans?

    Ill take what Bas said with a huge grain of salt since a) he's relying on d-stats and b) he has yet to post the results.

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ference/page13

    ignore the annoying, unnecessary posts about Sicilians

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    ^^It does fit one of the earlier academic models. Most of them were lower Southern European, however.

    Well, now I definitely won't read it. There's only so much stupidity and psychotic driven agenda spewing that I can handle at one time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    ^^It does fit one of the earlier academic models. Most of them were lower Southern European, however.

    Well, now I definitely won't read it. There's only so much stupidity and psychotic driven agenda spewing that I can handle at one time.
    Thats ok. It's sad that a site like that makes it possible to spam threads about academic studies.

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    If we take away 18.58 percent from the combined southern euro score and add it to the total middle eastern score (comprised of Caucasus and SW Asian) making it 50 percent, we're left with 44.16 percent Southern European...not far off from the farmer percentage mentioned in the Bronze Age Canaanite study. That's interesting.

    And what do they mean exactly by "Neolithic Central Europeans"... i don't know which farmer group they're referring to.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^Probably LBK related, which means almost no actual WHG.

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    we found that the Megiddo samples can be modeled as a mixture of earlier samples from the Levant and Iran, the latter possibly representing migration via Armenia.
    Are those earlier samples Levant BA from Jordan ? so can we say Levant MLBA = Levant BA + Armenia MLBA ? If so the latter could be the Maryannu and Hurrians of the Amarna letters.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    ≈55% BA Canaanites and ≈45% Neolithic Central Europeans
    That model is pointless.
    There were no 'Neolithic Central Europeans' when they migrated to Europe and also if post-BA Canaanites had acquired Neolithic Iranian admixture they should have it too, so they should model Askhenazi as BA Canaanites + Iran Neolithic + whatever is needed from Europe (if it makes some sense historically).

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Im about to give up on anthrogenica. They're still shooting for the 57 percent Samaritan 32 percent north Italian 7 percent Slavic 4 percent avar fit as if the phd's in this study don't know what they're talking about.
    55 percent Bronze Age Canaanite 45 percent EEF is the best we got so far.
    How is that "the best we got so far"? Show me one model where Ashkenazis are modeled like that with a distance less than 1/2%. You can't because it is not possible, it is just what you want to believe. (btw. I also see the model from Anthrogenica as wrong)

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    It's a guess and there's no need for personal accusations! It's just a guess that makes the most sense in my mind in comparison to the mixing with Romans theory that people vet because there's no ibd sharing with Italians and other Europeans. I still think the European connection is ancient because of that and the Central European farmer stands for a heavily Neolithic population. Mixing with Eastern Europeans did happen here and there but it may not have happened all too often.

    If I'm wrong I won't be disappointed in the least bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    That model is pointless.
    There were no 'Neolithic Central Europeans' when they migrated to Europe and also if post-BA Canaanites had acquired Neolithic Iranian admixture they should have it too, so they should model Askhenazi as BA Canaanites + Iran Neolithic + whatever is needed from Europe (if it makes some sense historically).
    It's not implying that, its suggesting that a population heavily EEF or Neolithic Balkan (Philistines most likely) as Jovialis pointed out may have mixed with the Judeans.

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    Is there an anticipated release date for the paper?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    Are those earlier samples Levant BA from Jordan ? so can we say Levant MLBA = Levant BA + Armenia MLBA ? If so the latter could be the Maryannu and Hurrians of the Amarna letters.
    If the Mitanni and the Amarna chieftains of Canaan, who had Aryan and Hurrian names and deities, came from Armenia, what does that say about the Indo-Iranian homeland ? Assyrian records don't mention Iranian tribes to their east during this time, so is it possible that their homeland was in the Caucasus, from the steppes to Armenia to the Levant, another branch would migrate to Iran and India.

    It reminded me of this post by Dienekes http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/12...ndo-aryan.html

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