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Thread: Do Animals Have Emotions? A Debate

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    Do Animals Have Emotions? A Debate



    Do non-human animals such as cats, dogs, and chimpanzees have emotions such as happiness, sadness, fear, and anger? What kind of reasoning is required to justify the judgment that animals have emotions? Here is a dialogue between an advocate of animal emotions and a skeptic.

    Advocate: It is obvious that humans are not the only animals that have emotions. Anyone who is ever had a pet cat or dog knows that feeding them and petting them makes them happy, whereas dangers make them afraid and angry.

    Skeptic: Not so fast. There is no doubt that such animals can be rewarded and threatened, but their behavior is no guarantee that they are experiencing the emotions that people have.

    Advocate: Your skepticism is bizarre. It reminds me of the philosophical problem of other minds, where a skeptic says: I know that I have a mind, but how can I possibly know that anyone else has a mind?

    Skeptic: The parallel between arguments about other human minds and ones about animal minds is not good, because other people are much more similar to you than are cats and dogs. Can you provide a more substantial argument?

    Advocate: Gladly. The relevant kind of argument is what philosophers call inference to the best explanation, which is the standard way in science and everyday life of arguing about the existence of something you cannot directly observe. Most scientists believe in atoms because that hypothesis provides the best explanation of many phenomena in chemistry and physics. Similarly, we infer that the best explanation of other people's behavior is that they have minds just like us. Alternative explanation such as that other people are robots controlled by space aliens are utterly implausible. Analogously, the best explanation of the behavior of cats and dogs is that they are experiencing emotions.

    Skeptic: But wait, you neglect the fundamental principle of inference to the best explanation that you have to consider alternative hypotheses. For cats and dogs, we can explain their behaviors merely on the basis of reward mechanisms and threat response mechanisms that operate in all animals, including humans. When a cat is purring or a dog is wagging its tail, this response results from neural activity in its reward centers such as the nucleus accumbens. When a cat is yowling or a dog is growling, this results from neural activity in its threat detection centers such as the amygdala. These explanations are much simpler than making the additional assumption that cats and dogs are actually experiencing emotions of happiness and fear. Unlike people, pets cannot tell us that they are happy or anxious.

    Advocate: But thanks to neuroscience, we know that all mammal brains are similar with respect to overall organization. In the argument about other human minds, we not only use the hypothesis that other persons have minds in order to explain the behavior, we know enough about human neuroanatomy to be able to explain why they have minds like ours, because they have brains like ours. We increasingly know the mechanisms by which brains make minds, which operate across humans and other mammals. Admittedly, this argument doesn't apply to insects, reptiles, and fish, which have much simpler brains. Whether it applies to birds is hard to say, because they don't have a prefrontal cortex, although they do have an analogous brain structure, the nidopallium caudolaterale.

    Skeptic: The analogy between the brains of humans and non-human animals is not as good as you suppose. The brains of humans are far larger than those of cats and dogs, around 86 billion neurons as opposed to less than a billion. In particular, humans have a much larger prefrontal cortex, the area that is used for complex reasoning, so they are much more capable of making complex assessments of situations. If emotions were just physiological responses, then it would be plausible that animal emotions are the same as those in people. But physiology alone is not enough to discriminate between emotions such as fear and anger, which require appraisal of situations with respect to situations and goals. This limitation is why non-human animals are incapable of complex human emotions such as shame, guilt, and fear of embarrassment.

    Advocate: We are not talking about such emotions that depend on complexities of language and culture, but about much more basic emotions such as happiness, sadness, fear, and anger. These do not require a linguistically and culturally mediated appraisal of the situation, merely that an animal can have some nonverbal ways of appreciating whether its goals such as food and safety are being satisfied or threatened. With respect to these, the neuroanatomy of mammals is sufficiently similar to that of humans to provide analogy-based support for the inference that animal emotions are the best explanation of their behavior.

    Skeptic: But the analogy remains weak, and you still haven't recognized that the alternative explanations of animal behavior based on reward and threat mechanisms are simpler than the attribution of emotions, making fewer assumptions about mental states. I suspect that your real reason for wanting to believe in animal emotions has nothing to do with inference to the best explanation. It's just a motivated inference: you want to believe that animals have emotions because you want them to feel about you the way that you feel about them. People love their cats and dogs, so they naturally want to be loved back.

    Advocate: Even if people have this motivation, it does not undermine the basic logic of the inference. Simplicity is not a standalone criterion for inference to the best explanation, but has to be balanced against explanatory breath. Attributing emotions to animals can explain aspects of their behavior that mere reward and threat mechanisms do not cover.

    Skeptic: To make this convincing, you need to specify the kinds of behavior that cannot easily be accounted for by reward and threat mechanisms, and to show that animal brains are capable of the appraisals that contribute to emotions in human brains. Until then, it is better to remain at least undecided about whether animals have emotions.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...motions-debate
    I do believe that certain higher-order thinking animals have emotions. Perhaps not as advanced as humans, but to at least some degree.

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    I am 100 percent sure animals do feel emotions. But maybe on different levels. So if you are asking for example about insects... good question.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    If physiological mechanisms in the brain isn't enough for the skeptic, then what else does he want? I guess the only way he'll ever be convinced is if he becomes a dog himself.
    Student: [while discussing about Jurassic Park] ..and then he attacked the dude in his own car.
    Beavis: The dinosaur had a car?
    Butt-head: How else you think he's got there, dumb***? On a bike?
    Beavis: Shut up, Butt-head!
    [Beavis and Butt-head began slapping each other]

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    a dog has emotions, but it is induced by what happens here and now, no memory
    if the situation here and now changes, the emotion of the dog changes too, immeadiately

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    I guess skeptic never had a dog or is a terrible observer.
    Animals have emotions. The closer an animal to human evolutionary tree, the more similar are the emotions. For example we have more similar emotions with dogs than with crocodiles, and the most similar with chimps. Emotions are part of instinct that makes us and animals do the "right" things to survive.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    I have just had a convo with fellow travelers about traumatic experiences. And maybe this will give the illusion about me having "first world problems", but so be it. It is when in 2004 I drove in San Diego through pouring rain at night and I accidentally killed a duck. I have not had duck meat since though Chinese food is my favorite. I feel guilty to this day.

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    Even for first worlders, beate te as we say, that this is the most traumatic event you've ever experienced.

    I'm gathering you haven't spent much time on a working farm.

    Well, to be fair, I've never wrung the necks of the chickens or bopped the rabbits over the head, but I've certainly seen it done, and it doesn't stop me from eating them. I, like my mother, have, however, always managed to be elsewhere when it comes time to butcher the pigs.

    I have no qualms about fishing, and watching them flop around, but I just can't eat venison. Maybe I watched bambi too many times. :)


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Veal is off my list after reading how it's prepared.

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    As a very young man I once shot a rabbit with a hunters gun I had borrowed. I had seen it out in the snow. I went out wearing only pyama trouwsers and was bare foot and bare chested out there. The rabbit started running and I shot and it fell down in the snow. I felt very tough untill I approached the rabbit which was still half alive. Then I felt sorry and I didn't know what to do any more. I finished the rabbit and I burried it in a proper place, feeling very sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I guess skeptic never had a dog or is a terrible observer.
    Animals have emotions. The closer an animal to human evolutionary tree, the more similar are the emotions. For example we have more similar emotions with dogs than with crocodiles, and the most similar with chimps. Emotions are part of instinct that makes us and animals do the "right" things to survive.
    Tbh hopefully he'll never own a pet.

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    Well, I am an animal and do have emotions...my bigger brain makes me no less animal and doubt that mankind started feeling with evolution...

    In fact, fear is a primary emotion, almost reptilian, isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dretsend View Post
    Well, I am an animal and do have emotions...my bigger brain makes me no less animal and doubt that mankind started feeling with evolution...
    In fact, fear is a primary emotion, almost reptilian, isn't it?
    I think the part I have italicized below is the weakest part of the "skeptic's" argument. Because perhaps our own emotions are just advanced versions of these reward and threat mechanisms. An important question is, "what is emotion?". Nevertheless, I think what could be considered, proper "emotion" requires a more complex feeling beyond it. However, I believe reward and threat mechanisms are the rudimentary part of it. Perhaps social animals that can experience a sense of jealousy are a good indication of where emotional behavior can be identified. Animals like dogs, have been observed to experience jealousy.

    Skeptic: But wait, you neglect the fundamental principle of inference to the best explanation that you have to consider alternative hypotheses. For cats and dogs, we can explain their behaviors merely on the basis of reward mechanisms and threat response mechanisms that operate in all animals, including humans. When a cat is purring or a dog is wagging its tail, this response results from neural activity in its reward centers such as the nucleus accumbens. When a cat is yowling or a dog is growling, this results from neural activity in its threat detection centers such as the amygdala. These explanations are much simpler than making the additional assumption that cats and dogs are actually experiencing emotions of happiness and fear. Unlike people, pets cannot tell us that they are happy or anxious.

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    IMO we probably feel the same as any other animal when we're rewarded or frightened, it's just that a lot of what makes us happy, upset, or frightened aren't things that certain other species can understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dretsend View Post
    Well, I am an animal and do have emotions...my bigger brain makes me no less animal and doubt that mankind started feeling with evolution...

    In fact, fear is a primary emotion, almost reptilian, isn't it?
    So is feeling of hunger and sexual desire. Nature way of telling animals what is most important for them. Three goals in life: eat, survive, multiply.
    Basically, there are two types of emotions. One group of emotions that create feeling of discomfort and pain, to tell us what to avoid. Second group of emotions of feeling pleasure and satisfaction, of what to embrace and long for in life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I think the part I have italicized below is the weakest part of the "skeptic's" argument. Because perhaps our own emotions are just advanced versions of these reward and threat mechanisms. An important question is, "what is emotion?". Nevertheless, I think what could be considered, proper "emotion" requires a more complex feeling beyond it. However, I believe reward and threat mechanisms are the rudimentary part of it. Perhaps social animals that can experience a sense of jealousy are a good indication of where emotional behavior can be identified. Animals like dogs, have been observed to experience jealousy.
    Skeptic: But wait, you neglect the fundamental principle of inference to the best explanation that you have to consider alternative hypotheses. For cats and dogs, we can explain their behaviors merely on the basis of reward mechanisms and threat response mechanisms that operate in all animals, including humans. When a cat is purring or a dog is wagging its tail, this response results from neural activity in its reward centers such as the nucleus accumbens. When a cat is yowling or a dog is growling, this results from neural activity in its threat detection centers such as the amygdala. These explanations are much simpler than making the additional assumption that cats and dogs are actually experiencing emotions of happiness and fear. Unlike people, pets cannot tell us that they are happy or anxious.
    Here is emotion of feeling injustice. Typical for group animals on higher evolutionary ladder. Thought for ages by many that these higher emotions are only human domain. Not anymore.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    So is feeling of hunger and sexual desire. Nature way of telling animals what is most important for them. Three goals in life: eat, survive, multiply.
    Basically, there are two types of emotions. One group of emotions that create feeling of discomfort and pain, to tell us what to avoid. Second group of emotions of feeling pleasure and satisfaction, of what to embrace and long for in life.
    I guess as with humans, since we live in complex social structures, we needed to evolve to have more complex emotions. Since certain things that cause us pain and discomfort; like working, need to be endured in order to receive the reward. While things that cause us pleasure, and satisfaction like substance abuse, need to be resisted in order to avoid the threat. Through our ability of reflection, and future planning; we needed to resist these feelings sometimes. Therefore, I think the more complex an animal's interaction with their social structure is, the more complex their emotions will be.

    Maybe the more mental gymnastics it takes for an animal to identify reward and threat in relation to it's social structure, emotions become more intricate. Perhaps this is why some people have a tough time ironing out their wants and desires, because they get befuddled in identifying reward and threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I guess as with humans, since we live in complex social structures, we needed to evolve to have more complex emotions. Since certain things that cause us pain and discomfort; like working, need to be endured in order to receive the reward.
    Perhaps emotion like "sense of duty" is only human one? Things/work has to be done. We feel satisfaction when job is done right, plan accomplished.
    We can also endure pain and discomfort for future rewards, but it might not be only the human emotion. Dogs can do tricks for a treat afterwards, in the future.

    While things that cause us pleasure, and satisfaction like substance abuse, need to be resisted in order to avoid the threat. Through our ability of reflection, and future planning; we needed to resist these feelings sometimes. Therefore, I think the more complex an animal's interaction with their social structure is, the more complex their emotions will be.
    It is certainly the case.

    Maybe the more mental gymnastics it takes for an animal to identify reward and threat in relation to it's social structure, emotions become more intricate. Perhaps this is why some people have a tough time ironing out their wants and desires, because they get befuddled in identifying reward and threat.
    Environment is complex and often throws curve balls. Wanting to feel same pleasure again and again, like alcohol and other drug addictions, piggybacks on existing reward neuronal networks originally created for other stimuli, more organic vital ones.

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    My dog surely does,

    He has not only emotions,
    but also he can think,
    and distinguish good and bad,

    he also can feel,
    he has feelings with humans and other dogs,
    When someone is showing/pointing the MOON
    many of us look the FINGER, the first time
    But some
    continue to see the finger AFTER second and third time,

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    I completely agree with Yetos! My dog, too, not only that he has emotions, but I suspect that he can fake some emotions, too :)

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    my dog, he can count and add up
    next I'll learn him to multiply and after that we'll start algebra

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    no, my dog, he has a high emotional intelligence, that is true

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    I completely agree with Yetos! My dog, too, not only that he has emotions, but I suspect that he can fake some emotions, too :)
    I truly believe the dog me and my ex had and shared with another family was playing games with us. The dog was trained to crap outside but whenever she (the dog) returned from the other family, she would do it in the house. Somewhere in the corner. Then either snap at my ex or pretend to feel guilty. Everyone said we had the dumbest dog on earth, but I am truly convinced she was playing us all and had the last laugh on this one.

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    When I save up I'll buy a cat and teach it to bark, and stand up while clapping. Lol. I'll name it Mr. Doghuggies.
    Last edited by davef; 15-11-17 at 17:05.

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