Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 161

Thread: North-Central Italian Bronze Age invasion of South Italy and the Sea Peoples

  1. #26
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,928
    Points
    96,929
    Level
    96
    Points: 96,929, Level: 96
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 121
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States





    Quote Originally Posted by Pygmalion View Post
    We have a Philistine sample?
    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...y-sea-peoples/

    There was a Philistine cemetery that was excavated a back in 2016. From it, scientists are extracting ancient DNA.

  2. #27
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,230
    Points
    11,791
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,791, Level: 32
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 159
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...y-sea-peoples/

    There was a Philistine cemetery that was excavated a back in 2016. From it, scientists are extracting ancient DNA.

    I'm looking forward to seeing those results, I'm pretty sure they'll be heavily EEF going by the 45 percent Neolithic Central European figure for Ashkenazi which is likely from them.
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

  3. #28
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    IronSide's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-10-16
    Age
    25
    Posts
    883
    Points
    8,064
    Level
    26
    Points: 8,064, Level: 26
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 86
    Overall activity: 71.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2e1

    Country: United Arab Emirates



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing those results, I'm pretty sure they'll be heavily EEF going by the 45 percent Neolithic Central European figure for Ashkenazi which is likely from them.
    Iranian Jews are shifted towards Iranians, Ethiopian Jews towards Ethiopians, North African Jews to North Africans, but Ashkenazi remained "pure"(no admixture from Europeans) and the extra EEF is from Philistines ? No, I don't think so.

  4. #29
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,928
    Points
    96,929
    Level
    96
    Points: 96,929, Level: 96
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 121
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Ironside is right, clearly the Ashkenazi received DNA from when they were diaspora in central Europe.



    The EEF DNA the ancient Judeans would receive from the Sea Peoples would probably come mostly from Impressed ware, and Eastern Neolithic.
    Last edited by Jovialis; 25-11-17 at 00:37.

  5. #30
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,230
    Points
    11,791
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,791, Level: 32
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 159
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Ironside is right, clearly the Ashkenazi received DNA from when they were diaspora in central Europe.

    The EEF DNA the ancient Judeans would receive from the Sea Peoples would probably come mostly from Cardial ware/Impressed ware, and Starcevo.
    Ironside, it was just a guess and nothing agenda driven. I'm happy to hear any alternative theories from you that are sensible :).

    And Jovialis, I highly doubt the sea people were still around when Jewish groups settled in Central Europe.

  6. #31
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,928
    Points
    96,929
    Level
    96
    Points: 96,929, Level: 96
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 121
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Ironside, it was just a guess and nothing agenda driven. I'm happy to hear any alternative theories from you that are sensible :).
    And Jovialis, I highly doubt the sea people were still around when Jewish groups settled in Central Europe.
    ??????

    I'm talking about the ancient Judeans, not the ashkenazi. The ashkenazi settled in central Europe thousands of years later. The philistines settled in the Levant...

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing those results, I'm pretty sure they'll be heavily EEF going by the 45 percent Neolithic Central
    European figure for Ashkenazi which is likely from them.
    What would the sea people have to do with the Ashkenazi?

    This is not the first time you've "misread" something I've posted, and I think your being deliberately obtuse to cause confusion.

  7. #32
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,230
    Points
    11,791
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,791, Level: 32
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 159
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    ??????

    I'm talking about the ancient Judeans, not the ashkenazi. The ashkenazi settled in central Europe thousands of years later. The philistines settled in the Levant...



    What would the sea people have to do with the Ashkenazi?

    This is not the first time you've "misread" something I've posted, and I think your being deliberately obtuse to cause confusion.
    I'm not trying to confuse anyone, sometimes I mix up closely related words and i apologize. It's the 45 percent Central European farmer figure that made me believe it was all from a heavily farmer source. To be fair, i could be wrong and we may never know where it came from without analyzing ancient DNA and scientific evidence.

  8. #33
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,582
    Points
    297,724
    Level
    100
    Points: 297,724, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    I don't think North African Jews are very much like North Africans at all. They did keep themselves rather separate. Ethiopian and Indian Jews are different.

    I don't know about people like the Iraqi Jews. We really have to wait and see what these Iron Age Judean samples look like when the paper is published. If they plot close to Samaritans, then yes, the Iraqi Jews are shifted.

    What people always seem to forget about the Samaritans is that the Judeans considered them "mixed".

    If we assume, for the moment, that they do plot with or close to the Samaritans. The Samaritans are actually shifted pretty far toward Southern Europe. They're really close to Cypriots, which you can't say for the other populations of the Near East who surround them.



    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  9. #34
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,928
    Points
    96,929
    Level
    96
    Points: 96,929, Level: 96
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 121
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I'm not trying to confuse anyone, sometimes I mix up closely related words and i apologize. It's the 45 percent Central European farmer figure that made me believe it was all from a heavily farmer source. To be fair, i could be wrong and we may never know where it came from without analyzing ancient DNA and scientific evidence.
    That "central European neolithic farmer" figure, may not be from there at all since south eastern Europe also had little to no WHG. It's just some term you picked up, from what ever calculator you were using that you mentioned in the Canaanite thread. It just a stand in to model farmers with little to no WHG. Look at the Starcevo_EN sample.


  10. #35
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,230
    Points
    11,791
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,791, Level: 32
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 159
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    That "central European neolithic farmer" figure, may not be from there at all since south eastern Europe also had little to no WHG. It's just some term you picked up, from what ever calculator you were using that you mentioned in the Canaanite thread. It just a stand in to model farmers with little to no WHG. Look at the Starcevo_EN sample.

    I wasn't using a calculator, I was referring to what was mentioned in the David Reich/Carmi abstract. And Angela mentioned that it could've been a heavily LBK like input so yes the additional EEF did have little to no extra whg.

  11. #36
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,230
    Points
    11,791
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,791, Level: 32
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 159
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    I'll even quote her post regarding the study to show that the Central European Neoltihic term isn't something i found from a calculator. Read whats been bolded:

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This should be a good one; hope it comes out soon...

    "The genetic origin and heritage of Bronze Age Canaanites

    Shai Carmi and David Reich



    "Canaanites were the indigenous population of the Southern Levant during the 2nd millennium BCE. Their genetic origin and impact on modern populations have recently started to unravel following an analysis of a Lebanese sample. To study Canaanites from other Levant regions and their genomic heritage in the broader Middle East, we sequenced five petrous bones from Megiddo, Israel, dated to the Middle/Late Bronze Age (BA) transition (≈3.5 KYA). We enriched the DNA for approximately 1.2 million SNP targets, followed by sequencing at coverage >0.25x. Using a combination of statistical tools (PCA, f-statistics, ADMIXTURE, qpAdm), we found that the Megiddo samples can be modeled as a mixture of earlier samples from the Levant and Iran, the latter possibly representing migration via Armenia. The Megiddo samples showed high similarity to older Levant BA samples, as well as to a later Iron Age (IA, ≈3 KYA) sample that we sequenced from Abel Beth Maacah in Northern Israel. The genomes of modern native Levantine populations trace ≈60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites, ≈10% to Eastern Africa, and the remaining to less well characterized sources, possibly related to Iran. The genomes of Ashkenazi Jews can be modeled as ≈55% BA Canaanites and ≈45% Neolithic Central Europeans, and those of Iraqi Jews as ≈70% BA Canaanites and ≈30% Neolithic Iranians. To validate the results, we developed a novel extension of ChromoPainter that can take advantage of the information in linked SNPs to paint ancient chromosomes and model their ancestry. Our results confirm previous findings regarding the mixed Levantine-Iranian ancestry of BA Canaanites, and suggest remarkable continuity in the region throughout the Bronze and Iron Ages. Using existing and new methods, we characterized the ancestry of modern Middle-Eastern populations as a combination of pre-existing groups from the Middle-East and beyond."

    This is great stuff. They have sequenced bones from Megiddo in 1500 BC and one Iron Age sample from Northern Israel dated to 1000 BC. This is the time of Saul and David.

    What differences exist from prior samples seem to have been from continued migration from areas around Armenia.

    I definitely want to see the data for this:
    "The genomes of Ashkenazi Jews can be modeled as ≈55% BA Canaanites and ≈45% Neolithic Central Europeans, and those of Iraqi Jews as ≈70% BA Canaanites and ≈30% Neolithic Iranians."

    That would change what Shai Carmi has believed for years, i.e. that the Ashkenazi ethnogenesis involved absorption of Italian genes before the movement to the Rhineland. Or, perhaps that's one way they can be modeled, but not the only or the best way.

    This new extension of ChromoPainter is potentially very important as well.
    sorry for going off topic, but I wanted to point this out

  12. #37
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,928
    Points
    96,929
    Level
    96
    Points: 96,929, Level: 96
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 121
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I'll even quote her post regarding the study to show that the Central European Neoltihic term isn't something i found from a calculator. Read whats been bolded:
    sorry for going off topic, but I wanted to point this out
    Fair enough, but I'll quote you again, and I'll stay on topic

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing those results, I'm pretty sure they'll be heavily EEF going by the 45 percent Neolithic Central European figure for Ashkenazi which is likely from them.
    In regards to the Phillistines, it would most likely not be from LBK, and it was only modeled that way. Like I said, South eastern farmer groups have little to no WHG.

  13. #38
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,230
    Points
    11,791
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,791, Level: 32
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 159
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Fair enough, but I'll quote you again, and I'll stay on topic



    In regards to the Phillistines, it would most likely not be from LBK, and it was only modeled that way. Like I said, South eastern farmer groups have little to no WHG.
    Yes, that's what I was saying, that the Central European Neolithic score is likely from philistines.

  14. #39
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,928
    Points
    96,929
    Level
    96
    Points: 96,929, Level: 96
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 121
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Yes, that's what I was saying, that the Central European Neolithic score is likely from philistines.
    Well, that's not what I'm saying, because I think much of the Philistines heavy Neolithic farmer contribution comes from South Eastern Europe. But like the ones in Central Europe, they have little to no WHG. Which is why they can be modeled the same.

  15. #40
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,230
    Points
    11,791
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,791, Level: 32
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 159
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Well, that's not what I'm saying, because I think the Philistines heavy Neolithic farmer contribution comes from South Eastern Europe. But like the ones in Central Europe, they have little to no WHG. Which is why they can be modeled the same.
    Youre right, I was saying that the score itself can be credited to them, I wasn't arguing that they were literally LBK. It's entirely believable and more likely that they got it from southeast Europe as you stated

  16. #41
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,928
    Points
    96,929
    Level
    96
    Points: 96,929, Level: 96
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 121
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Youre right, I was saying that the score itself can be credited to them, I wasn't arguing that they were literally LBK. It's entirely believable and more likely that they got it from southeast Europe as you stated
    Indeed, but also they would have Impressed ware (who had more WHG than the South Eastern Farmers) if the Philistines in particular originally came from Italy. If many of them did come from Southern Italy, they would have been mixed more with the two farmer groups. And if they were in Crete (Caphtor) for sometime prior to the going to the Levant, they could have even more South Eastern Farmer. Perhaps they even had some locals from Crete in their ranks; or brought them during the migration to the Levant. And if they were in fact from Crete originally, they would surely have a high percent of Southeastern Neolithic. At any rate, we need to see the paper.

  17. #42
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,119
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Late Bronze age North East italy.................the modern cities of Oderzo, Udine, Trieste and Gorz where all held by the Histi-Illyrian people .
    .
    west of oderzo lived the Venetic.
    south of Trieste lived the liburnian-Illyrians.
    North East of Gorz lived the Illyrians of Noricum.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  18. #43
    Regular Member Achievements:
    500 Experience Points1 year registered
    alexfritz's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-12-17
    Posts
    100

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a CTS11962+L1029+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H80

    Ethnic group
    german/italian
    Country: Germany



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    r.jung (2011) did an analysis of copper in bronze weapons from north_italy and south_italy dating to MBAIII-FBAII by chemical composition and found they were from the same source ore/mining which is now revealed to be sardinia; the interesting part is that it all post-dates the destruction of the south seen at roca-vecchia and aeolian-islands indicating a common network established by north/central after the destruction; this new network also had an impact on mycenae in which r.jung(2013) concludes and proposes Several researchers agreed with H. Catling that mercenaries from Italy were employed by the Mycenaean palace state(s) in the last decades of the 13thand at the beginning of the 12thcentury BC and thus during the years that were overshadowed by the crisis of the East-Mediterranean states. The existence of locally produced handmade pottery of Italian type in layers dating to LHIIIB Developed and Final at Tiryns, Midea, Mycenae and Nichoria on the Greek mainland is indeed a strong argument supporting the hypothesis that people coming from continental Italy were residing among the indigenous Mycenaean population already prior to the fall of the Mycenaean state system. The evidence of our analytical project makes it now much more probable that the local production of Italian-type impasto pottery and the introduction of bronze types of the metallurgical koiné starting in LHIIIB Middle are in fact related to each other. This connection,therefore, changes its common status of being a mere assumption to that of strong evidence. claiming a scenario of earlier raids of piracy and than in a ramsesII/III manner of incorporating such raiders into the own(mycenaean) army Clearly, it is a matter of military necessity to equip one’s army with new types of weapons if the neighbours possess more deadly weapons than oneself. Long slashing swords were unknown in the eastern Mediterranean prior to their introduction from Italy. This makes it highly likely that the Mycenaean armies, who seem to have been the first to adopt the new sword type, were precisely under the pressure of western warriors equipped with such weapons. Once they had integrated some contingents of those modern fighters, they were able to participate in the new combat technology of Italian and Central European origin.

    making it all highly plaus that Šekeleš and Šerden were from italy/sardinia respectively in a context of long known pirates as well as revolting and than marauding mercenaries; cant post the link but the paper is called 'Mycenaean Greece and Bronze Age Italy: Cooperation, Trade or War?'

  19. #44
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranTagger Second Class5000 Experience Points
    Cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-08-12
    Posts
    357
    Points
    9,350
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,350, Level: 28
    Level completed: 50%, Points required for next Level: 600
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Country: Italy



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #45
    Moderator Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,068
    Points
    26,960
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,960, Level: 50
    Level completed: 41%, Points required for next Level: 590
    Overall activity: 56.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Italic "Eteocretan" Sea peoples?


    TALANTA XL-XLI (2008-2009), 151-172

    AN ‘ETEOCRETAN’ INSCRIPTION FROM PRAISOS AND THE HOMELAND OF THE SEA PEOPLES

    Luuk de Ligt

    The whereabouts of the homeland or homelands of the so-called Sea Peoples have been endlessly debated. This article re-examines this problem by looking at one of the ‘Eteocretan’ inscriptions from the town of Praisos. It is argued that this text is written in an Indo-European language belonging to the OscanUmbrian branch of the Italic language family. Based on this finding it is suggested that this language must have arrived in eastern Crete during the Late Bronze Age, when Mycenaean rulers recruited groups of mercenaries from Sicily, Sardinia and various parts of the Italian peninsula. When the Mycenaean state system collapsed around 1200 BC, some of these groups moved to the northern Aegean, to Cyprus and to the coastal districts of the Levant. It is also suggested that this reconstruction explains the presence of an Etruscan-speaking community in sixth-century-BC Lemnos. An interesting corollary of this theory is that the Sea Peoples were present in the Mycenaean world some considerable time before its collapse in the early twelfth century.

    http://www.talanta.nl/wp-content/upl...172-DeLigt.pdf

    http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2015/02/...a-peoples.html

  21. #46
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second Class10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    814
    Points
    12,696
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,696, Level: 34
    Level completed: 7%, Points required for next Level: 654
    Overall activity: 24.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Late Bronze age North East italy.................the modern cities of Oderzo, Udine, Trieste and Gorz where all held by the Histi-Illyrian people .
    .
    west of oderzo lived the Venetic.
    south of Trieste lived the liburnian-Illyrians.
    North East of Gorz lived the Illyrians of Noricum.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but aint Venetic the same people as Veneti aka Slavic tribe?

  22. #47
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,119
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but aint Venetic the same people as Veneti aka Slavic tribe?
    You did a miss print ..........it is Veleti which are slavs , first and only tribe known as wends, they migrated from the upper vistula area to Mecklenburg Germany, where later part of the wendish crusades conflict.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veleti
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendish_Crusade
    there is the Venedi , who lived on the baltic sea, next to the nogat river, who where in majority absorbed into Gothic society, the remnants became known as the Warmians...an old Prussian tribe

  23. #48
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,119
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Late Bronze age North East italy.................the modern cities of Oderzo, Udine, Trieste and Gorz where all held by the Histi-Illyrian people .
    .
    west of oderzo lived the Venetic.
    south of Trieste lived the liburnian-Illyrians.
    North East of Gorz lived the Illyrians of Noricum.
    re reading strabo and Livy ( Roman historians )

    Trieste was inhabited by Carni Illyrians , to their south stood the liburnian illyrians and to their west the Histri Illyrians.

    The Histri dominated from west Istria through Udine and Oderzo along the coast as far as Ancona .............it is more likely that ancient Picenes where Histri illyrians instead of Liburnian illyrians.

    Still checking who where the Euganei , ancient people from modern Veneto and Friuli. Italians have already removed the Liguri union, ....it would seem they are a sub branch of the illyrians who where in east Austria from ~1600BCE or where part of the Rhaetic group

  24. #49
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second Class10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    814
    Points
    12,696
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,696, Level: 34
    Level completed: 7%, Points required for next Level: 654
    Overall activity: 24.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    You did a miss print ..........it is Veleti which are slavs , first and only tribe known as wends, they migrated from the upper vistula area to Mecklenburg Germany, where later part of the wendish crusades conflict.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veleti
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendish_Crusade
    there is the Venedi , who lived on the baltic sea, next to the nogat river, who where in majority absorbed into Gothic society, the remnants became known as the Warmians...an old Prussian tribe
    Ahh, I see. Yup. Venedi is the way its spelled. That is who I meant.

  25. #50
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    30-08-17
    Posts
    176
    Points
    3,539
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,539, Level: 17
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 311
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Italy



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    No, Veneti were Italic speakers

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •