North-Central Italian Bronze Age invasion of South Italy and the Sea Peoples

Cato said:
yes, p.285-286

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I give a hint:

.... Many of the objects found, could have been sold to the Mycenaeans in Italy. (maybe)

Weapons however is a different story.
It’s highly probable to assume that were brought by Italian Warriors (some of the weapons were also built on site probably by them)...
 
Pygmalion said:
We have a Philistine sample?
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Look for Cyprus for that number 1 number 2 would be Crete. Easily it would be strong in the Y dna from those regions.
 
By 1200 BC everybody was moving on. Pelasgians taking refuge in Italy as Etruscans is more tenable than the inverse, by 1200 Dorians were smashing Mycaenians and by doing so the remaining pre-Indoeuropean pockets left in Greece (islands and mountains would be good places to find them). The Greek colonization of Magna Greece started by such epoch? Why not other migrants were not going more northwards (but being the pre-Indoeuropean share higher than in the south of Italy)?
 
berun said:
By 1200 BC everybody was moving on. Pelasgians taking refuge in Italy as Etruscans is more tenable than the inverse, by 1200 Dorians were smashing Mycaenians and by doing so the remaining pre-Indoeuropean pockets left in Greece (islands and mountains would be good places to find them). The Greek colonization of Magna Greece started by such epoch? Why not other migrants were not going more northwards (but being the pre-Indoeuropean share higher than in the south of Italy)?
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I totally disagree, Pelasgians taking refuge in Italy when Italy is flooded with IE migrations isn't more tenable.

Even Spain was rich in pre-Indo-European languages. Pre-Indo-European languages ​​were already in Europe long before.
 
Angela said:
If the Philistines do derive from northern and central Italians and if they had a big impact on Judean genetics, that might explain that leak which came out saying the ancient Judean samples were heavily EEF.
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I've thought about this long enough, and unfortunately this will probably be my final post on this forum. Eurogenes is much worse in terms of being a good climate for discussion, so I think I'll just keep this all as a side-interest that I look at every now and then whenever there's updates in aDNA.

Before I go though, I just want to know what this post was all about - what is this leak you're referring to? Do you have a link to where you first heard about it?
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
I've thought about this long enough, and unfortunately this will probably be my final post on this forum. Eurogenes is much worse in terms of being a good climate for discussion, so I think I'll just keep this all as a side-interest that I look at every now and then whenever there's updates in aDNA.

Before I go though, I just want to know what this post was all about - what is this leak you're referring to? Do you have a link to where you first heard about it?
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It’s not us, it’s you!
Don’t play the victim, and consider that for a moment!
After all you did manage to anger all of the Italians in this Forum.
 
Salento said:
It’s not us, it’s you!
Don’t play the victim, and consider that for a moment!
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I'm not playing the victim for sympathy on an online forum that I'm no longer going to be a part of, that makes no sense.

I just want to know about this supposed leak before I go, that's all I want.
 
Nobody knows about this EEF-Judean leak apart from Angela? Please, someone just enlighten me - I really want to know. Then, I'm gone, but I have to know about this first!
 
Angela said:
If the Philistines do derive from northern and central Italians and if they had a big impact on Judean genetics, that might explain that leak which came out saying the ancient Judean samples were heavily EEF.
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Well, I hope you answer about what this leak is all about, but in any case it shouldn't take long to come out if it is legitimate, so there's no point me pestering about.

Not blaming anyone, but I don't think this forum is for me anymore - I've learnt a lot, but it's time for me to move on.
 
Oh, cut it out, enough with the drama. We all know you like it here.
If you provoke people a bit less, it might just work out better.
 
Kastrokephala (Crete): strangers or locals in a fortified acropolis of the 12th century BC

https://www.academia.edu/2369482/Ka..._a_fortified_acropolis_of_the_12th_century_BC

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Cato said:
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB31035

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https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/7/eaax0061

By investigating genome-wide data from Ashkelon, we address long-pending historical questions regarding the demographic developments underlying the Late Bronze Age to Iron Age cultural transformation. On a larger regional scale, these data begin to fill a temporal gap in the genetic map of the southern Levant, revealing persistence of the local Levantine gene pool throughout the Bronze Age for over a millennium. At the same time, by the “zoomed-in” comparative analysis of the Ashkelon genetic time transect, we find that the unique cultural features in the early Iron Age are mirrored by the distinct genetic composition we detect in ASH_IA1. Our analysis suggests that this genetic distinction is due to a European-related gene flow introduced in Ashkelon during either the end of the Bronze Age or the beginning of the Iron Age. This timing is in accord with estimates of the Philistines arrival to the coast of the Levant, based on archeological and textual records (2–4). We find that, within no more than two centuries, this genetic footprint introduced during the early Iron Age is no longer detectable and seems to be diluted by a local Levantine-related gene pool.
The relatively rapid disappearance of this signal stresses the value of temporally dense genetic sampling for addressing historical questions. Transient gene flows, such as the one detected here, might be overlooked because of a lack of representative samples, potentially leading to erroneous conclusions. In geographic regions unfavorable to DNA preservation, obtaining such datasets requires exhaustive sampling and the utilization and further development of advanced technologies such as DNA enrichment techniques (15–17) and targeted sampling strategies (27).
We do not rule out that some gene flow occurred during the Bronze Age as low significance of the f4-statistics might be due to the limited statistical power of our data stemming from either insufficient coverage or a lack of appropriate contemporaneous proxy populations. Thus, additional sampling is needed to further investigate the question of the genetic diversity within the Levantine Bronze Age populations and to characterize the spatiotemporal extent of potential incoming gene flows. Similarly, a larger sample size might help to accurately infer the extent and magnitude of the early Iron Age gene flows and to identify more precisely the populations introducing the European-related component to Ashkelon. While our modeling suggests a southern European gene pool as a plausible source, future sampling in regions such as Cyprus, Sardinia, and the Aegean, as well as in the southern Levant, could better resolve this question.
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