MOESAN
Elite member
- Messages
- 5,880
- Reaction score
- 1,291
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Brittany
- Ethnic group
- more celtic
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b - L21/S145*
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H3c
Maybe it wil not be a long lasting thread, so sorry; I don't find the thread where I argued against someones claiming it was a link between Celtic bran and Slavic vrana:wrona:vorona (and some Baltic varna) for "crow" -
I wrote the Celtic word could not be an PIE cognate of the others, considering the reconstructed (and senseful) root **w(o)rn - the Brittonic result would have been #gwran -
But in the meanwhile I remembered some celticists wrote bran was a loanword in Celtic, my first thought being it was not IEan, but then my very quick and efficient brain (it took some months only) conclude that the word could have been lent from another IEan language, with a /v-/ sound; as we know the word is feminine in Celtic so undergoes regularly the mutation bran > vran after article, we can suppose that it could very easily be a loan, because this occurs regularly enough in Brittonic languages that a loanword in V- (/v/ did not exist at first in Brittonic at the initiale, unless mutated by lenition) is treated as if it was a mutated word in B- or M- (in dialects sometimes in GW-) and a false "root" is then /created - ex: french 'vélocipède' ("bike") > colloquial 'vélo' -> belo > ar velo in Breton / Fr- 'wagon' /vago~/: bagon > ar vagon in Breton / Fr- 'valise' : malisenn > ar valisenn in Breton ; sometimes some apparently geneuine Celtic words see their mutated form reconstructed differently: "thumb", Welsh bawd, ei fawd /i vaud/ ("his thumb"), Breton meud, e veud /e vö:dt/
Words seem cognates between Celtic and Slavic, it is not a surprise, but the only interesting ones could be the ones which are not also common to a lot of other IEan languages.
I wrote the Celtic word could not be an PIE cognate of the others, considering the reconstructed (and senseful) root **w(o)rn - the Brittonic result would have been #gwran -
But in the meanwhile I remembered some celticists wrote bran was a loanword in Celtic, my first thought being it was not IEan, but then my very quick and efficient brain (it took some months only) conclude that the word could have been lent from another IEan language, with a /v-/ sound; as we know the word is feminine in Celtic so undergoes regularly the mutation bran > vran after article, we can suppose that it could very easily be a loan, because this occurs regularly enough in Brittonic languages that a loanword in V- (/v/ did not exist at first in Brittonic at the initiale, unless mutated by lenition) is treated as if it was a mutated word in B- or M- (in dialects sometimes in GW-) and a false "root" is then /created - ex: french 'vélocipède' ("bike") > colloquial 'vélo' -> belo > ar velo in Breton / Fr- 'wagon' /vago~/: bagon > ar vagon in Breton / Fr- 'valise' : malisenn > ar valisenn in Breton ; sometimes some apparently geneuine Celtic words see their mutated form reconstructed differently: "thumb", Welsh bawd, ei fawd /i vaud/ ("his thumb"), Breton meud, e veud /e vö:dt/
Words seem cognates between Celtic and Slavic, it is not a surprise, but the only interesting ones could be the ones which are not also common to a lot of other IEan languages.
haha