R1b-L51/PF7589

Carbo

Carbo

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Ethnic group
Italic
Y-DNA haplogroup
R-PF7590
mtDNA haplogroup
U5a2b
"The study of Sardinian Y-DNA by Francalacci et al. (2013) allowed to have a look at the subclades of R1b-PF7589-->PF7590 on this island that has not been settled by the Celts or the Etruscans, nor by an Italic tribe besides the Romans."..."The geographic isolation of Sardinia has left its inhabitants to a large degree unaffected by outside influences, apart from a minority of Phoenician, Roman and Vandal colonisers. ".... "In other words, all the Indo-European R1b in Sardinia (bar a tiny percentage of Germanic R1b brought by the Vandals) can be attributed to the Romans."

Roman domination of Sardinia lasted 694 years, during which it was an important source of grain for the capital. Latin came to be the dominant spoken language of Sardinia during this period, though Roman culture was slower to take hold, and Roman rule was often contested by the inhabitants of Sardinia's mountainous central regions."

Turris Libisonis, the Roman colony of caesarian foundation . This colony, the only one of Roman citizens in the province of “Sardinia”, bore the name of “Iulia”.


This is yet more evidence that PF7589 and PF7590 in Italy was probably the dominant Roman lineages (ancient italic people latin tribe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latins_(Italic_tribe) )


PF7590 formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 1500 ybp
 
R-l51/pf7589

"The study of Sardinian Y-DNA by Francalacci et al. (2013) allowed to have a look at the subclades of R1b-PF7589-->PF7590 on this island that has not been settled by the Celts or the Etruscans, nor by an Italic tribe besides the Romans."..."The geographic isolation of Sardinia has left its inhabitants to a large degree unaffected by outside influences, apart from a minority of Phoenician, Roman and Vandal colonisers. ".... "In other words, all the Indo-European R1b in Sardinia (bar a tiny percentage of Germanic R1b brought by the Vandals) can be attributed to the Romans."

Roman domination of Sardinia lasted 694 years, during which it was an important source of grain for the capital. Latin came to be the dominant spoken language of Sardinia during this period, though Roman culture was slower to take hold, and Roman rule was often contested by the inhabitants of Sardinia's mountainous central regions."

Turris Libisonis, the Roman colony of caesarian foundation . This colony, the only one of Roman citizens in the province of “Sardinia”, bore the name of “Iulia”.


This is yet more evidence that PF7589 and PF7590 in Italy was probably the dominant Roman lineages (ancient italic people latin tribe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latins_(Italic_tribe) )


PF7590 formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 1500 ybp
 
Carbo said:
"The study of Sardinian Y-DNA by Francalacci et al. (2013) allowed to have a look at the subclades of R1b-PF7589-->PF7590 on this island that has not been settled by the Celts or the Etruscans, nor by an Italic tribe besides the Romans."..."The geographic isolation of Sardinia has left its inhabitants to a large degree unaffected by outside influences, apart from a minority of Phoenician, Roman and Vandal colonisers. ".... "In other words, all the Indo-European R1b in Sardinia (bar a tiny percentage of Germanic R1b brought by the Vandals) can be attributed to the Romans."

Roman domination of Sardinia lasted 694 years, during which it was an important source of grain for the capital. Latin came to be the dominant spoken language of Sardinia during this period, though Roman culture was slower to take hold, and Roman rule was often contested by the inhabitants of Sardinia's mountainous central regions."

Turris Libisonis, the Roman colony of caesarian foundation . This colony, the only one of Roman citizens in the province of “Sardinia”, bore the name of “Iulia”.


This is yet more evidence that PF7589 and PF7590 in Italy was probably the dominant Roman lineages (ancient italic people latin tribe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latins_(Italic_tribe) )


PF7590 formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 1500 ybp
Click to expand...

That's an unwarranted conclusion based on those facts. As just one factor, many mainland Italians have moved to the island over the last 1500 years,as they have to Corsica.Like everyone else, you're going to have to wait for ancient DNA.
 
R-PF7590 is currently found only in Italy: mine in Apulia (Taranto) and in Sardinia with Freancalacci. It is possible that R-PF7590 was born in Italy
It may have been brought to Apulia by the Romans with the deduction of the NEPTUNIA colony in 123 BC and Brundisium 247 or 244 BC. therefore of Italic origin and probably of LATIN ethnic group.
 
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I'm Russian and polish (father's side is Russian) and I have r1b L51, does anyone have any information on this?
 
^^ if I were you bro I'd change that username
 
"According to my own timeline, I would say that R-PF7589 arose 5000-5200 years ago in present-day Romania (or possibly Hungary?), along with U106 and my own group R-P312. Their L51 ancestors had probably migrated from the Volga region to southern Ukraine about a thousand years earlier (6000-6200 years ago). I discuss this more fully in the "Horse domestication" thread.
However, from Hungary, there are two possible routes. One possibility is that CTS6889/CTS11824 would have gone directly west (south of the Alps) to Italy early on. The other possibility is that they continued with P312 and U106 up the Danube, and then much later entered Italy from the north (with the Latin migration). I suspect it was the latter. . "

R-PF7589+ may have arrived in Italy with the waves of immigration of the Indo-Europeans: Latin
The ancient latin they had moved into the Italy from central Europe before 1000\2000 BC
"The Latins were an Indo-European people who probably migrated into the Italian peninsula during the late Bronze Age (1200–900 BC). Numerous relics of the nomadic steppe culture of the Proto-Indo-Europeans have been discerned in Roman customs. Their language, Latin, belonged to the Italic branch of Indo-European."
 
I have my Y R-Z43 do you have some information I come from ITALY TUSCANY FLORENCE
 
I am working , today in lima the pope francesco ultimo imperatore di roma
 
roberto1960 said:
I have my Y R-Z43 do you have some information I come from ITALY TUSCANY FLORENCE
Click to expand...

Again, I already answered you. Z43 is under U152/S28 Z56.

R1b-U152-tree.png
 
It is roma italic origin?
 
roberto1960 said:
It is roma italic origin?
Click to expand...

Roberto, Roma is definately of Italic origin, your Y-line is very likely Roman in origin if not Italic at the very least.

https://yfull.com/tree/R-Z56/

If you look at the Yfull tree you’ll that most branches of Z56 are expanding at the same time as the Italic tribes entered Italy.
 
the oldest R-PF7589/ CTS6889- have diffused in Tuscany (Italy)...

***Hypothesis spread Italian *** L51/CTS6889+ with an expansion from Italy to Central Europe? ( Ancient Roman DNA ? )

It seems to me that these data are the demonstration of all theories, of the "Rifugio Italiano" (?)(Gioiello Tognoni) .
 
Carbo said:
the oldest R-PF7589/ CTS6889- have diffused in Tuscany (Italy)...

***Hypothesis spread Italian *** L51/CTS6889+ with an expansion from Italy to Central Europe? ( Ancient Roman DNA ? )

It seems to me that these data are the demonstration of all theories, of the "Rifugio Italiano" (?)(Gioiello Tognoni) .
Click to expand...

No Gioiello’s theory is fringe and has been proven wrong by virtually all ancient dna papers
 
Carbo said:
"In other words, all the Indo-European R1b in Sardinia (bar a tiny percentage of Germanic R1b brought by the Vandals) can be attributed to the Romans."
Click to expand...

Directly or indirectly? I see in the eupedia map that the frequence of Roman R1b (R-S28) are more elevated in the extreme north of Sardinia, that was recolonized by Corsicans centuries ago. Since Corsicans show a high percentage of this haplogroup, probably due to contacts with Italian regions beyond the sea, from which they borrowed also the language, it seems to me that Sardinian R1b frequencies could descend mostly from this Corsican influence.
Or not? :unsure:
 
in sardinia sassari I find one person with R-Z43
 
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