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Thread: Iberian Neolithic M269?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROS View Post
    @Olympus Mons

    That is to say that all the tests collected to verify this phenomenon of massive invasion of the steppe, are non-objective tests and chosen on purpose to accommodate them to a previously conceived theory?
    I do not think it was like that

    If it is true that apart from these comments that in iberia were only tested neolithic and not true campaniformes, also in France it is observed that the few tests they perform are very close to Germany.
    Ros,
    the world is not made of conspirators, is made of self interest.
    Samples were chosen due to the probability of yielding good DNA. So, the colder and dampest the better. And yes, coldest and dampest does fall perfectly on their believes.

    Having said that…. Everybody, everybody knows for decades that the Bell beakers had a huge exchange with Cwc in that region and that they were the ones moving to northern Europe and Netherland, Denmark ( and UK). Since Nmdental traits done on bell beakers, everybody knew they were the half breeds and that there was something kinky with exogamy between Bell beakers males and CWC women (ok and the other way around). That is not part of the paper (olalde) narrative, is it?

    So, if they (and not saying they were) were original Iberians BB with 5 generations per century of local admix, after 15 generations when they admix with CWC, how do you think they would look like?

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    wait and see but I'm as hungry as you for more serious data in Iberia; the first ones are the ones who interests me...

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    it is early Iberian chalcolithic
    these people came clearly from elsewhere
    but where?
    "The Zagros farmers domesticated goats as well as cereals such as emmer, whereas their counterparts to the west had their own crops, including barley and wheat. Around 9,500 years ago, these traditions began spreading around the Middle East, Rogers says, noting that the two populations of farmers may have mixed in eastern Turkey while seeking out sources of obsidian, which was useful for making tools. By the time farmers in present-day Turkey began migrating to Europe, they carried a 'Neolithic toolkit' that included crops, animals and tools from both farming traditions."

    -- "Farming invented twice in Middle East, genomes study reveals", Nature, June 20, 2016 ("Google" - can't post links yet).

    Zagros farmers were R1b. Source of Yamnaya R1b? Was M269 originally from NW Iran, then spread with Neolithic expansion? R1b also found in Cyprus and Crete. Did they island hop?

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    "Zagros farmers were R1b."
    @CrazyDonkey

    for me Zagros mountains open on the Mesopotamian region and are not too open to Central Asia. I think personally that if Y-R1b was South the Caucasus before to be North the Pont, it would have arrived from East along the South-Caspian shores regions. But it is still an hypothesis. Don't forget R1b ancestors were before surely around Penjab or South Central Asia... and the plain would have been more attractive than the Zagros mountains, except if they were only poor caprins and ovins pastors, what is not so sure, if they began the IE boosters...

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    The sample from Portugal is H2, as Genetiker said, because its calls lead to H2 without holes... the call on M269 seems lonely put in the pot, sort of false positive.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    R1b M269 is an old stage of R1b; without downstream SNP's it doesn't help too much,I think. If we should find huge amouts of M269 it could signify something but to date? some little groups of M269 and/or close SNP's in the tree could have taken a lot of roads on every direction with very different autosomes makings, due to the fact they were small groups.

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    If we see hg G and J2's route in settling in Europe they toke the southern highway and danube river route so maybe m269 too toke several routes, so now the question should be which group which route resulted in their successful colonization? of course the more ancient the better!

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