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I had more those two Basque girls in mind, those women that you post looks more roundish than the reconstruction.View attachment 9687View attachment 9688
Hum ! i know thats kind of hard to believe, but i always wonder if local physical traits were in fact very persistent in population at least until the Neolithic. I mean by that whatever the change of autosomal DNA or mtdna and y-chromosome haplogroups over the years, maybe Mesolithic Ukraine for exemple looks physically like Sunghir or Kostenki saying the Vestonice cluster but with addition of new traits. I remember to have see a skull from Schela Cladovei mesolithic looking really similiar to the Oase 1 or for some extend the Skhul and Qafzeh one and another from Eastern European HG looking 80% neanderthal like... I wonder how much is really the change in physical characteristics between a deep population and a newcomer population in paleolithic and mesolithic wich had very low demographics.
But why and how would that happen? Certainly environmental adaptation is a thing, but it'd took at least a few milennia to reproduce the exact or at least similar phenotype of a previous different population in the same territory. Apart from that, we're all shaped by our DNA, so I find it very unlikely that people who underwent an intense change in their autosomal DNA would still look the same.
I never fully understand the paleolithic and mesolithic dark gskin of european, i remember have seen an article who pretends that it was the african dark skin, but whatsoever i saw some time ago this virtual reconstruction of the two young people from Sunghir and i kind of like the rendering. View attachment 9695
i think it's due to the hunter gatherers not getting vitamin d from food (dairy products) so they needed darker skin to absorb sun rays, though I could be wrong. The Stuttgart lady was pale as a cloud.
Dark-skinned people produce vitamin D more slowly than light-skinned people, because melanin aborbs UV radiation that could have been absorbed by protovitamin D.i think it's due to the hunter gatherers not getting vitamin d from food (dairy products) so they needed darker skin to absorb sun rays, though I could be wrong.
I never fully understand the paleolithic and mesolithic dark skin of european, i remember have seen an article who pretends that it was the african dark skin, but whatsoever i saw some time ago this virtual reconstruction of the two young people from Sunghir and i kind of like the rendering. View attachment 9695
No one is pretending anything: alleles for paler skin are either present or they're not present. Also, I'm not aware of any scientific paper or article stating that Mesolithic West Europeans had "African" dark skin as in, i.e. Nigerian skin color.
What the scientists are saying, roughly, is that it is highly likely that a person with derived snps in SLC24A5 and SLC 45A2 would be "fairer" than people with ancestral values. If and until we learn otherwise it is what it is.
Nor is it material what reconstructions, made by people before we had that knowledge, we prefer.
As for southern African populations with slightly lighter pigmentation, of course, they're at a different latitude, not equatorial. Also, there has been a genetic inflow of derived snps into these populations.
See: Brenna Henn et al, "Rapid Evolution of Lighter Skin Pigmentation in Southern Africa"
http://meeting.physanth.org/program...ter-skin-pigmentation-in-southern-africa.html
"Skin pigmentation is under strong directional selection for reduced melanin density in northern European and Asian populations. Conversely, dark pigmentation is thought to be under stabilizing selection in equatorial populations exposed to intense ultraviolet radiation. We high-throughput sequenced pigmentation genes in over 400 individuals from South Africa and demonstrate that a canonical skin pigmentation gene, SLC24A5, experienced recent adaptive evolution in the KhoeSan populations of far southern Africa. The functionally caustive allele lightens basal skin pigmentation by 4 melanin units, explaining 11.9% variance in pigmentation in these populations. Haplotype analysis and demographic models indicate that the allele was introduced into the KhoeSan only within the past 3,000 years likely by eastern African pastoralists. The most common haplotype is shared among the KhoeSan, eastern Africans and Europeans but has risen to a frequency of 25%, far greater than expected given initial gene flow. The SLC24A5 locus is a rare example of strong, ongoing adaptation in very recent human history."
Yes when i say pretend it's juste like that. But the article i'm refering to was this one https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...blue-eyes-and-dark-african-skin/#4468c709791d. At the time, in 2014 it was the top article when i wright dark skin, blue eyed in google.
"Angela: Also, I'm not aware of any scientific paper or article stating that Mesolithic West Europeans had "African" dark skin as in, i.e. Nigerian skin color. "
Sorry that reality upsets your prejudices. Deal with it.
If all you read is "news" articles and not scientific papers, that explains your lack of knowledge about the topic.
It was in 2014, i was not even on Eupedia at the time. Jeez ! Still happy it's just internet, irl i have the impression that you would kick my ass for such a bloomer.
I abjure and abhore violence, halfalp, so you would be safe from me.
However, I'm certainly not one of those people who can only be direct and even confrontational behind a keyboard. One of your Balkan compatriots sent me a scurrilous, disgusting pm this morning, out of nowhere I might add. I don't know whether I was supposed to be hurt, scared, or angry. I was amused. As I told him, in one of my prior professions I destroyed three "tough" guys like him before breakfast. He got banned for his little attempt at projecting machismo.
This post of yours actually shows a good sense of humor. Maybe I came down on you too hard. I'm just tired of perpetually having to deal with t-rolls from Neo-racist sites who spout the same a-scientific stuff over and over again. If you're not one of them, I apologize.
Ok first, i'm Swiss not Balkanic, even if physically one could say i look Balkanic or from the Caucasus and i don't know who you make reference to, i dont have any relation with anybody here. Secondly i'm not neo-nazi, neither racialist or racist, i might be xenophobic in certain situations. Thanks for the apologize and i apologize too for " all the times ". For the dark skin thing or even that Yamnaya guys were black haired, i dont have problems with that, i'm myself dark haired and dark eyed. But, im too curious for " dark skined, blue eyed " i want to know exactly how ancient people looked like, what kind of skin color or what kind of blue eyes were everything originate and how it propagate, not for ideologic reasons but only for representations of ancient humans. I'm sorry for the message that this guy send you, even though i think you can be extreme sometimes in the way you deal for exemple with amateurs like me, i would note send you some kind of ridiculous hateful messages. Sorry.
I picked up on your use of the word "amused" and so I guess even you yourself find some of these t-rolls entertaining as I often do. I'm not referring to the real wild junk dogs like seanp or others who posted here with their blatant hatred, I'm referring to the real clowns with their laughable theories such as Egyptians having connections with ruff rydaz from the Steppe or the ones who claim to be of a certain ethnicity yet they act so overly stereotypical that it comes into question (like someone posting as username "Emilio", location is "Uzbekistan" and he "sounds" like super Mário when he posts lol-he makes it blatantly obvious he's not Italian). I also enjoy the ones who don't seem smart enough to fool a child, I laughed really hard after some guy copy pasted descriptions of other components from living DNA and claimed that that's how it described the north Italian component! That was classic.I abjure and abhore violence, halfalp, so you would be safe from me.
However, I'm certainly not one of those people who can only be direct and even confrontational behind a keyboard. One of your Balkan compatriots sent me a scurrilous, disgusting pm this morning, out of nowhere I might add. I don't know whether I was supposed to be hurt, scared, or angry. I was amused. As I told him, in one of my prior professions I destroyed three "tough" guys like him before breakfast. He got banned for his little attempt at projecting machismo.
This post of yours actually shows a good sense of humor. Maybe I came down on you too hard. I'm just tired of perpetually having to deal with t-rolls from Neo-racist sites who spout the same a-scientific stuff over and over again. If you're not one of them, I apologize.
That guy just look like a hell of a lot of Swiss men, especially in German Switzerland, but also in the French part ( where i come from ) he must be Tyrolian from Austria or North Italy, Bavarian or from Appenzell in Switzerland.And you're right: the phenotypes persist.View attachment 9696
And you're right: the phenotypes persist.View attachment 9696 That guy just look like a hell of a lot of Swiss men, especially in German Switzerland, but also in the French part ( where i come from ) he must be Tyrolian from Austria or North Italy, Bavarian or from Appenzell in Swiss.
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