First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin, Cheddar Man DNA analysis reveals

[QUOTE = Parafarne; 534409] Las cantidades de almagra eran muy pequeñas en iberia y en el extremo sur, por lo que probablemente eran inmigrantes de África, teniendo en cuenta que el E-81 está más en África que en Iberia. [/ QUOTE]

I just found this news that may interest you about it. I have opened an thread on the subject.

http://cordopolis.es/2018/03/13/el-...insula-vivio-en-la-subbetica-hace-7-245-anos/

"The fact that the representatives of the Ancient Andalusian Neolithic correspond to the same population flow of individuals associated with the Cardinal culture, has important implications, ruling out for the moment the African way in the arrival of the Neolithic to the Andalusian coast. of a material culture of great personality, differentiated from the typical ceramics of the cardial world of Southern France, Catalonia and Valencian Country, such as that of ceramic to Almagra, must have been generated in a few generations. Evidence recently cleared, in studies in which some scientists are responsible for this work, in which the direct influence of the first Iberian farmers on the dissemination of the Neolithic, agriculture and agriculture is demonstrated. reverse thesis, "says Rafael M. Martinez, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Granada participating in the work

Intuitively or call it what you want the current Spaniards in the forums usually deny what has just been demonstrated and it is not a question of racism, but it is something that you feel is not so. And look that I am E-V22, but I am mixed who knows since when with the inhabitants of the Iberian Peninsula and nevertheless I have not had interference in feeling that it was not like that; Even if the African coast is near, I would not know how to explain it, but it's something that says no, that's not how it was. It is shown that it was the other way around, the Almagra culture went from the south of Iberia to the north of Africa, I do not know if it left a genetic trace or it was a cultural adoption, that's what the scientists will say.
 
^^ Evidentemente.

l 0 l

Referring to the great mass, the working class, there would probably be a minimal upper or upper middle class that would be more modernized but did not share their customs with the lower classes; I mean that people showered, then more bathing, to fill the bathtub with water once a week at the most, there were many mouths with tartar on the teeth and many flaps of coats full of dandruff, and with the culture American television and film people learned to take showers every day or at least more than once a week along with other everyday customs that were worthwhile, but of the Europeans we learned only to sunbathe excessively and perhaps the first steps towards sexual freedom with hundreds of Spaniards moving to Perpignan to see Emmanuelle.

In the past there were no mobile phones or movies or TVs. but the fashions would arrive later but they would extend in the same way at the end.

beside the speed of propagation, my point was that at those times, some physical contacts were needed, at least for "delivery", when today NO contact is needed.
 
Genetic analysis showed that it was Y DNA I2a2b-S10750
 
hi Carlos
Genetic analysis showed that it was Y DNA I2a2b-S10750 Not Y DNA EM81
 
[QUOTE = Elaishousse; 567940] hola Carlos
El análisis genético mostró que era Y DNA I2a2b-S10750 Not Y DNA EM81
[/ QUOTE]

Hi. He has appointed me. What does it mean?
 
I checked some of his pigmentation SNPs, but it is possible that I missed some other:

Cheddar Man's skin pigmentation SNPs:


rs1426654(G;G) ---> G is darker skin, modern Northern Europeans have A;A here
rs16891982(C;C) ---> C allele is darker skin, also 7x more likely to have black hair
rs1408799(C;C) ---> C is lighter pigmentation & higher skin cancer risk in Europeans (per SNPedia)
rs1834640(A;A) --> associated with skin pigmentation (modern Europeans have A;A too)
rs1800414(A;A) ---> G associated with East Asian type light skin, Non-Asians have A
rs885479(G;G) ---> A associated with East Asian type light skin, Non-Asians have G
rs12203592(T;T) ---> T associated with less tanning ability, common in Irish people
rs1015362(G;G) ---> G associated with less tanning ability, Sub-Saharans have A;A

Cheddar Man's hair & eye pigmentation:

rs1667394(A;A) ---> A;A is blond hair and blue eyes 4x more likely
rs12896399(G;G) ---> G;G genotype associated with lighter hair color
rs12913832(G;G) ---> people with G;G blue eye color 99% of the time
rs12203592(T;T) ---> T causes lighter hair & eyes, less tanning ability
rs1800401(C;C) ---> C associated with blue/gray eyes possibility
rs1800407(G;G) ---> G associated with blue/gray eyes possibility
rs7495174(A;A) ---> A associated with blue/gray eyes more likely

He lacked the first 2 listed skin depigmentation mutations that modern Europeans have. But he had some other depigmentation mutations, so I don't think that he was "black". Maybe he had a skin tone similar to what you can find today in North India, Pakistan, etc. I also don't think he was blond-haired. He had some genes which increase the likelihood of blond hair, but he also had others which increase the likelihood of black hair, I suppose they cancelled each other and produced something intermediate.

=====

In GEDmatch K36, for example, he scores a whopping 37% of Fennoscandian:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/37954-Cheddar-Man-Mesolithic-Britain-GEDmatch-results

And today in Fennoscandia you still have many quite dark-pigmented people:

Dark Finn:


Here is a good article:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/02/06/the-genome-of-cheddar-man-is-about-to-be-published/
 
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I checked some of his pigmentation SNPs, but it is possible that I missed some other:

Cheddar Man's skin pigmentation SNPs:


rs1426654(G;G) ---> G is darker skin, modern Northern Europeans have A;A here
rs16891982(C;C) ---> C allele is darker skin, also 7x more likely to have black hair
rs1408799(C;C) ---> C is lighter pigmentation & higher skin cancer risk in Europeans (per SNPedia)
rs1834640(A;A) --> associated with skin pigmentation (modern Europeans have A;A too)
rs1800414(A;A) ---> G associated with East Asian type light skin, Non-Asians have A
rs885479(G;G) ---> A associated with East Asian type light skin, Non-Asians have G
rs12203592(T;T) ---> T associated with less tanning ability, common in Irish people
rs1015362(G;G) ---> G associated with less tanning ability, Sub-Saharans have A;A

Cheddar Man's hair & eye pigmentation:

rs1667394(A;A) ---> A;A is blond hair and blue eyes 4x more likely
rs12896399(G;G) ---> G;G genotype associated with lighter hair color
rs12913832(G;G) ---> people with G;G blue eye color 99% of the time
rs12203592(T;T) ---> T causes lighter hair & eyes, less tanning ability
rs1800401(C;C) ---> C associated with blue/gray eyes possibility
rs1800407(G;G) ---> G associated with blue/gray eyes possibility
rs7495174(A;A) ---> A associated with blue/gray eyes more likely

He lacked the first 2 listed skin depigmentation mutations that modern Europeans have. But he had some other depigmentation mutations, so I don't think that he was "black". Maybe he had a skin tone similar to what you can find today in North India, Pakistan, etc. I also don't think he was blond-haired. He had some genes which increase the likelihood of blond hair, but he also had others which increase the likelihood of black hair, I suppose they cancelled each other and produced something intermediate.

=====

In GEDmatch K36, for example, he scores a whopping 37% of Fennoscandian:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/37954-Cheddar-Man-Mesolithic-Britain-GEDmatch-results

And today in Fennoscandia you still have many quite dark-pigmented people:

Dark Finn:


Here is a good article:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/02/06/the-genome-of-cheddar-man-is-about-to-be-published/

I dont want to be harsh but, if this guy in the video is dark-pigmented so most of Europe is.
 
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Genetic analysis showed that it was Y DNA I2a2b-S10750

And it is well known that I2 folks look black and pakistani because "scientist" that get a paycheck from people that are flooding Europe with God knows what, will never lie. Science is backed by God, God would intervene if foul play was occurring.
 
Seems counteractive that a person with blue eyes, would be climatically adapted with "dark to black skin."
I suspect politicization of this issue.

Skin color seems slow to respond to environmental pressure, and I suspect changes are generally associated with dietary changes. Blue eyes however, seem to respond quickly and heavily to latitude, showing a detectable north-south cline even into historic times. If a population harvests a good bit of their food from marine resources such as fish, seals etc there is no reason why they should not have dark skin.

Also remember that even during the peak ice age, insolation was the same as today. The dark-skinned WHGs only made it up to Scandinavian latitudes briefly. Most of their span was spent at Mediterranean to mid-European latitudes.
 
Skin color seems slow to respond to environmental pressure, and I suspect changes are generally associated with dietary changes. Blue eyes however, seem to respond quickly and heavily to latitude, showing a detectable north-south cline even into historic times. If a population harvests a good bit of their food from marine resources such as fish, seals etc there is no reason why they should not have dark skin.

Also remember that even during the peak ice age, insolation was the same as today. The dark-skinned WHGs only made it up to Scandinavian latitudes briefly. Most of their span was spent at Mediterranean to mid-European latitudes.

Blue eyes likely has nothing to do with latitude. It makes more sense that the only reason blue eyes are more common in the North is because of less Med admixture.
 
Blue eyes likely has nothing to do with latitude. It makes more sense that the only reason blue eyes are more common in the North is because of less Med admixture.

That does not seem to be entirely so. "Eight thousand years of natural selection in Europe" by Mathieson, Lazardis et al note that blue eyes do seem to be subject to what appears to be high selective pressure in northern latitudes.

"our data shows that an extreme north-south gradient in allele frequencies [for blue eyes] has been maintained in Europe for the last 8,000 years"

To the best of my knowledge we don't know why, but there does seem to be pressure and quite a bit of it.
 
That does not seem to be entirely so. "Eight thousand years of natural selection in Europe" by Mathieson, Lazardis et al note that blue eyes do seem to be subject to what appears to be high selective pressure in northern latitudes.

"our data shows that an extreme north-south gradient in allele frequencies [for blue eyes] has been maintained in Europe for the last 8,000 years"

To the best of my knowledge we don't know why, but there does seem to be pressure and quite a bit of it.

Nothing plausible explains it to my knowledge, selection based on latitude would have to be ridiculously intense to explain this. I think it's more likely, if the increase in Southern brown eyes isn't due to Meds, that another different HG group further South just happened to have browner eyes.

Also, 8000 ybp is the approximate date of the Neolithic in Europe so that could be what's being referred to (i.e. the increase in brown eyes is from Meds).
 
Seems counteractive that a person with blue eyes, would be climatically adapted with "dark to black skin."
I suspect politicization of this issue.

People sometimes seem to forget how natural evolution works. We're well ahead of Lamarck now, aren't we? It is not like people's DNA thinks hey this skin color is now no longer properly adapted to this new climate I'm living in, so let's lighten it a lot, because that's what I need to become totally fit for this environment. Mutations are random - and they may simply not happen at all or, if they happen, they may not have the chance to spread for many natural/social reasons or even (bad) chance, and that's the end of the story: no adaptation and no natural evolution will happen. We can't take for granted that effective and reproductively sucessful genetic mutations for light skin would happen anywhere in high latitudes and in all populations living there. It may be that WHG developed other less well known ways to lighten their skin a bit, as the skin pigmentation is a very polygenic and increasingly complex (as we understand it better) trait... but they probably just lacked those specific mutations that have a really big effect in skin depigmentation. People do not "get adapted to their environment", it is their genetic variations that get selected positively or negatively by the environment (but those variations have to exist for starters).
 
I dont want to be harsh but, if this guy in the video is dark-pigmented so most of Europe is.

That's what I was thinking. If that man is quite dark-pigmented, then most Europeans are dark and many Southern Europeans are outright black. :-O
 
DNA Land Coffee Consumption Trait Prediction Report for Cheddar Man:

Your inferred trait is: 2.9 cups per day (Higher Than Average Consumption)
 
Unlabeled_Renatto_Luschan_Skin_color_map.png
jvp1e7maxhr01.jpg
 
As a Norwegian I feel I should point out that the amount of UV radiation you get exposed to is not just dependent on the infalling UV due to latitude. How much snow there is reflecting the UV is a major contributor. A flat snow plain will reflect quite a bit of the UV at you, and a sloping snowcovered valley can blast you with UV from every direction. If you spend half the year operating in snow at near mediterranean latitudes I would guess the UV would be even worse than it is this far north.

Retaining melanin protection might have made a lot of biological sense during the ice age.

Nothing plausible explains it to my knowledge, selection based on latitude would have to be ridiculously intense to explain this. I think it's more likely, if the increase in Southern brown eyes isn't due to Meds, that another different HG group further South just happened to have browner eyes.

Also, 8000 ybp is the approximate date of the Neolithic in Europe so that could be what's being referred to (i.e. the increase in brown eyes is from Meds).

An extreme cline maintained through 8000 years of people moving and mixing cannot be explained by one group just happens to have brown eyes. There is some pressure going on there. But its unknown what it is.
 

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