First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin, Cheddar Man DNA analysis reveals

[A. Papadimitriou]

That statement speaks for itself, I don't even have to reply. But I will say as a "Nordic" which is just the French word for North, why would you automatically relate it to neo-nazi? I will freely use that word as it has no original connotation to "neo-nazism" and I will freely call myself "Nordic"

The people who say the belong to a 'Nordic race' are more likely to believe in racial hierarchy and racial supremacist pseudo-scientific theories.

The word 'northern' is less loaded.

 

[Ygorcs]

That statement speaks for itself, I don't even have to reply. But I will say as a "Nordic" which is just the French word for North, why would you automatically relate it to neo-nazi? I will freely use that word as it has no original connotation to "neo-nazism" and I will freely call myself "Nordic"

Well, there is a very clear suffix distinguishing Nordic from Nordicist. A Nordicist, much like an Afrocentrist, belongs to a particular ideology that strives to demonstrate the superiority of Nordic people and has a view of history and genetics mostly as centered around the Nordic peoples (most often without any reliable scientific evidence). So, unless you identify with that, you probably shouldn't feel harmed by people making fun of Nordicists.

 

[Jovialis]

It would be considered breaking the rules if you continue to go off topic. Now, let's get back to discussing Cheddar man.

The very next person to derail this thread with a post relating to davef's comment is getting a 4 point infraction for not respecting a moderator's warning.

Get back to cheddar man.

 

[Jovialis]

Well, there is a very clear suffix distinguishing Nordic from Nordicist. A Nordicist, much like an Afrocentrist, belongs to a particular ideology that strives to demonstrate the superiority of Nordic people and has a view of history and genetics mostly as centered around the Nordic peoples (most often without any reliable scientific evidence). So, unless you identify with that, you probably shouldn't feel harmed by people making fun of Nordicists.

Correct.

Also, you can make fun of nordicism, and racism, just as long as it is not done in a vulgar manner.

However, it will no longer be discussed here. Again, let's please get back to cheddar man.

 

[Carlos]

I think it's a joke, a circus. I think this has been done by the English prince's girlfriend, the second of Lady Di's children, this one is like a redhead who has taken a girlfriend who looks African-American, I think the shots go around, what I would think even worse because giving an identity or false characteristics to anyone even a body of the Neolithic would seem to me cultural fascism, and that is what is currently happening in Europe, it seems that we have to understand everything and accept everything is going to produce the opposite effect, finally going against ourselves while at the same time claiming to be the most understanding and tolerant in the world. A tremendous mental cocoa of concepts that will finally end Europe for that reason I believe that if that reconstruction is false it is a serious crime against the truth and against our ancestors, if the reconstruction is true they have to prove it and then it will be accepted. The big problem is the lie, not the skin color, if not the lie, it would be intolerable.

 

[Ed the Red]

Honestly though I would say from dark skin to black is a big jump seriously. I'm a pale white European and if I was to hear dark skin I would say southern Europeans have dark skin, especially most of their ability to tan. I obviously wouldn't call them black. Do you understand the interpretation that I'm sure many of us are experiencing.

 

[FIREYWOTAN]

Thanks for your series of remarks and the potential for a dialogue long overdue.
Why is so much of life all or nothing? What had started as a contradiction adds a further truth. The flood tide of new ideas is one of the reasons that having this conversation or any at this level of cognition is more frightening than it's been in a long, long, time. I'm thankful to be here this morning and to be allowed a chance to listen and at the right moment attempt to share an idea.

 

[Carlos]

[QUOTE = Ed the Red; 532839] Honestamente, yo diría que de piel oscura a negra es un gran salto en serio. Soy un europeo blanco pálido y, si tuviera que oír la piel oscura, diría que los europeos del sur tienen la piel oscura, especialmente la mayor parte de su capacidad para broncearse. Obviamente no los llamaría negros. ¿Entiende la interpretación que estoy seguro que muchos de nosotros estamos experimentando? [/ QUOTE]


​Southern Europeans have the ability to tan after a lot of sacrifice and indiscriminately sunbathe, especially when the fashion of tanning emerges as a sign of being a healthy person, athlete or living a life of leisure and entertainment abroad enjoying every moment abroad. It is not overnight, it is years of effort to peel in the sun, not to use sunscreen with protection, and finally after just touching the sun you are already tanned. In the 70s and 80s, many construction workers saw their faces and arms with the marked brown shirt, now they have not seen each other again because in their spare time they were already going to the beach to sunbathe. integral way On the other hand in the southern countries you can see the skin too pale as a sign of the opposite that represents the brown skin bone of the Nordic skin is seen as a sign of disease, weakness, boredom, lack of life abroad. There are Moroccans in Spain who are whiter than the Spaniards, they go to the beach at night.

 

[Angela]

This is supposed to be at least vaguely about science. Scientists use agreed upon scales of pigmentation. In this particular case the researchers specifically stated that the probability was that his pigmentation was within the last two categories.

 

[MOESAN]

(polite) debate to be send to 'pigmentation' in 'anthropo'!
new skin lightening mutations could be discovered, which did not affect the most of modern 'europoids' or 'east-asians' (the reasons they could not have been discovered for statistical and lack ancient skins reasons) - that said, if the case, they would not strengthen the psychologic links between "modern whites" and "ancient white or not-black WHG's" because the mutations would not be the same ones for a lot of us! but it is still an hypothesis.
&: 'nordic' is not quite 'northern' but none of both words, like other specific words, deserves affective or political prejudices, open or concealed. It's boring.

 

[Salento]

I wonder what “Cheddy” would think about all the Controversy about his Appearances.
He would probably say: “ and, Who’s the Caveman again ? “
[emoji2]

 

[Angela]

Since people in other forums can't seem to get it right: this is NOT based on an algorithm which uses eight snps. It uses THIRTY-SIX snps. Could we get the facts straight before we discuss interpretation and outside probabilities? Also, sorry to disabuse, but it's not based on an "American" view of skin pigementation. The testing was based on this paper:

See: Susan Walsh et al
"Global Skin Color Prediction From DNA"

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-017-1808-5


"Here, we investigate the skin colour predictive value of 77 single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) from 37 genetic loci previously associated with human pigmentation using 2025 individuals from 31 global populations. We identified a minimal set of 36 highly informative skin colour predictive SNPs and developed a statistical prediction model capable of skin colour prediction on a global scale. Average cross-validated prediction accuracies expressed as area under the receiver-operating characteristic curve (AUC) ± standard deviation were 0.97 ± 0.02 for Light, 0.83 ± 0.11 for Dark, and 0.96 ± 0.03 for Dark-Black. When using a 5-category, this resulted in 0.74 ± 0.05 for Very Pale, 0.72 ± 0.03 for Pale, 0.73 ± 0.03 for Intermediate, 0.87±0.1 for Dark, and 0.97 ± 0.03 for Dark-Black. "

Also, for the hundredth time, the possession of a single derived snp for, say, red hair is IRRELEVANT. The science is clear: these derived snps work TOGETHER. They affect different parts of the chain. You need a combination of them for a trait to be expressed.

 

[bicicleur 2]

This is supposed to be at least vaguely about science. Scientists use agreed upon scales of pigmentation. In this particular case the researchers specifically stated that the probability was that his pigmentation was within the last two categories.

and so there would be a correlation between these categories and certain genes

oddly enough, 1 & 2 are depicted with blue eyes, while 3-6 are depicted wiht ever darker eyes

 

[AdeoF]

I wonder what “Cheddy” would think about all the Controversy about his Appearances.
He would probably say: “ and, Who’s the Caveman again ? “
[emoji2]

He would think like. "Why are these people making a big fuss about my skin colour, I look the same just like everyone else"

 

[FIREYWOTAN]

FIFTY SHADES OF BLACK or is it FIFTY SHADES OF GRAY?

[h=1]Global skin colour prediction from DNA[/h]
[FONT=&quot]

• Authors
• Authors and affiliations

• Susan WalshEmail author
• Lakshmi Chaitanya
• Krystal Breslin
• Charanya Muralidharan
• Agnieszka Bronikowska
• Ewelina Pospiech
• Julia Koller
• Leda Kovatsi
• Andreas Wollstein
• Wojciech Branicki
• Fan Liu
• Manfred KayserEmail author

[/FONT]

Predicting phenotypes from genotypes is a component of complex genetics that has etched its way into many disciplines including personalized medicine, forensic genetics, anthropological genetics, and consumer genetics, depending on the particular phenotype that is predicted from DNA information. The ability to predict human phenotypes with genetic markers has been of continual interest and significant progress has been made, not only in these applied disciplines, but also to more fundamental genetics researchers as it paves the way to find out why certain DNA markers are found to be associated with certain phenotypic traits.
Thinking about the explosive conversations that still exist within all of us it's a bit confusing.

 

[Angela]

and so there would be a correlation between these categories and certain genes

oddly enough, 1 & 2 are depicted with blue eyes, while 3-6 are depicted wiht ever darker eyes

That color chart is just one of those that are used normally in forensics. It's based on probabilities. Most "very fair" skinned people in modern populations are blue eyed. However, not all. I'm in category one and have brown eyes. It's not common, but it happens.

If you go to the text of the paper and scroll down you'll see the color chart the authors of that paper were using. The actual test based on that probably has a shortened chart. Regardless, the strong probability based on 36 snps was dark brown-black. Based on current knowledge of pigmentation that's as much as they can say.

It would be interesting to see the prediction for samples like Loschbour, LaBrana, Bichon, Villabruna, etc., to see if there was some variation among the WHG. This test wasn't available when those studies and predictions were published.

 

[TopLobster]

screenshot of email of skin pigmentation results
edit: from documentary





To: Yoan Diekmann
Cc: Thomas, Mark
Ok Yoan,
Sorry for the delay on this.
I have done the below individual (in this email) as their coverage was much better. I only had 3 snps ... [text cut off screen] ... heterozygote at the sites did not alter the prediction below significantly. It was still around the ... [text cut off screen] ... Second issue was assuming 0 for two sites that you were missing rs12896399 (genotype GG) and ... [text cut off screen] ...

SKIN	Prob
Very Pale	0.000
Pale	0.000
Int.	0.035
Dark	0.199
Dark-Black	0.766

Adjusting for the extremes, if rs12896399 had one or two T alleles present, this raised dark to ... [text cut off screen] ...
Also, adjusting for the BNC2 rs10756819, which also wasn't available, if it had the G allele present ... [text cut off screen] ...

So all in all, it is a dark to black skin colour individual. Interestingly with intermediate eye colour ... [text cut off screen] ... can't say for sure. Though certainly I would doubt he was dark brown.

As for hair, I'm missing too many MC1R mutations that impact red, and therefore more brown ... [text cut off screen] ... would be a dark brown to black haired individual, certainly not the true black of an Asian ... [text cut off screen] ...

I've attached a little image that reflects the range of these values (.7-.8), I didn't go to 0.9 ... [text cut off screen] ... can give really.

As for the lesser coverage individual, missing 10 varients make this too difficult to call, ... [text cut off screen] ... would be the same as the above individual at all.

... [text cut off screen]

 

[Angela]

^^If those are hacked, remove them right away.

 

[TopLobster]

^^If those are hacked, remove them right away.

They are shown on the documentary.

 

[Ygorcs]

I think it's a joke, a circus. I think this has been done by the English prince's girlfriend, the second of Lady Di's children, this one is like a redhead who has taken a girlfriend who looks African-American, I think the shots go around, what I would think even worse because giving an identity or false characteristics to anyone even a body of the Neolithic would seem to me cultural fascism, and that is what is currently happening in Europe, it seems that we have to understand everything and accept everything is going to produce the opposite effect, finally going against ourselves while at the same time claiming to be the most understanding and tolerant in the world. A tremendous mental cocoa of concepts that will finally end Europe for that reason I believe that if that reconstruction is false it is a serious crime against the truth and against our ancestors, if the reconstruction is true they have to prove it and then it will be accepted. The big problem is the lie, not the skin color, if not the lie, it would be intolerable.

How at all can you say that the reconstruction is a sign of cultural fascism, a joke, a circus, and so on, if you immediately afterwards say that you don't know if the reconstruction is a lie or not? They have made serious research on the ancient remains, analyzed the DNA, and have already announed that they are going to publish a study about their analyses. On the other hand, what do those who cry "joke, circus, lie!" have to say? Their own opinion, nothing else?