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Thread: First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin, Cheddar Man DNA analysis reveals

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin, Cheddar Man DNA analysis reveals

    The genome of Cheddar Man, who lived 10,000 years ago, suggests that he had blue eyes, dark skin and dark curly hair

    The first modern Britons, who lived about 10,000 years ago, had “dark to black” skin, a groundbreaking DNA analysis of Britain’s oldest complete skeleton has revealed.

    The fossil, known as Cheddar Man, was unearthed more than a century ago in Gough’s Cave in Somerset. Intense speculation has built up around Cheddar Man’s origins and appearance because he lived shortly after the first settlers crossed from continental Europe to Britain at the end of the last ice age. People of white British ancestry alive today are descendants of this population.

    (...)


    Tom Booth, an archaeologist at the Natural History Museum who worked on the project, said: “It really shows up that these imaginary racial categories that we have are really very modern constructions, or very recent constructions, that really are not applicable to the past at all.”


    Yoan Diekmann, a computational biologist at University College London and another member of the project’s team, agreed, saying the connection often drawn between Britishness and whiteness was “not an immutable truth. It has always changed and will change”.



    The findings were revealed ahead of a Channel 4 documentary, which tracked the ancient DNA project at the Natural History Museum in London as well as creating a new forensic reconstruction of Cheddar Man’s head.


    To perform the DNA analysis, museum scientists drilled a 2mm-diameter hole into the ancient skull to obtain a few milligrams of bone powder. From this, they were able to extract a full genome, which held clues about this ancient relative’s appearance and lifestyle.


    The results pointed to a Middle Eastern origin for Cheddar Man, suggesting that his ancestors would have left Africa, moved into the Middle East and later headed west into Europe, before eventually crossing the ancient land bridge called Doggerland which connected Britain to continental Europe. Today, about 10% of white British ancestry can be linked to this ancient population.
    The analysis also ruled out an ancestral link with individuals inhabiting Gough’s Cave 5,000 years earlier, who appear to have performed grisly cannibalistic rituals, including gnawing on human toes and fingers – possibly after boiling them – and drinking from polished skull cups.


    Britain was periodically settled and then cleared during ice ages until the end of the last glacial period about 11,700 years ago, since when it has been continuously inhabited.


    (...)




    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/first-modern-britons-dark-black-skin-cheddar-man-dna-analysis-reveals




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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    I think there's some exaggeration going on here. Black skin?

    I'd have to see all the snps, but he might have typical WHG like snps.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think there's some exaggeration going on here. Black skin?

    I'd have to see all the snps, but he might have typical WHG like snps.

    Yes, absolutely possible. Moreover, these findings seem not based on a peer-reviewed paper but on a Channel 4 documentary.

    Cheddar man may have been no different from other WHG found and analyzed.

    I'm still looking for any paper out, but so far I have not found anything.

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    The results pointed to a Middle Eastern origin for Cheddar Man, suggesting that his ancestors would have left Africa, moved into the Middle East and later headed west into Europe, before eventually crossing the ancient land bridge called Doggerland which connected Britain to continental Europe. Today, about 10% of white British ancestry can be linked to this ancient population.
    How did they determine that WHG came from the Middle East ? is there any evidence of that ?

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    Any word on the Cheddar Man's Haplogroups?

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    First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin, Cheddar Man DNA analysis reveals

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel D View Post
    Any word on the Cheddar Man's Haplogroups?
    The mtDNA of Cheddar Man is U5a
    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    How did they determine that WHG came from the Middle East ? is there any evidence of that ?
    he was probably i-m170 ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    The mtDNA of Cheddar Man is U5a
    I've read that there were concerns that that result was from contamination caused by a researcher. Have they re-tested and confirmed that Cheddar Man's mtDNA is U5a? And what about his yDNA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel D View Post
    I've read that there were concerns that that result was from contamination caused by a researcher. Have they re-tested and confirmed that Cheddar Man's mtDNA is U5a? And what about his yDNA?
    Got that from Eupedia:
    The Cheddar Man (subclade U5a): the remains of a Mesolithic man found in Gough's Cave in Cheddar Gorge, Somerset, England. It is Britain's oldest complete human skeleton.
    I don’t know about the Y.
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...U5_mtDNA.shtml

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think there's some exaggeration going on here. Black skin?

    I'd have to see all the snps, but he might have typical WHG like snps.
    so do I
    they painted him a lot darker than the La Brana WHG reconstruction
    WHG did have straight hair too

    and if they checked all this phenotype DNA, why didn't they check autosomal to see if he clusterd with Villabruna, and his uniparental DNA?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    'The results pointed to a Middle Eastern origin for Cheddar Man, suggesting that his ancestors would have left Africa, moved into the Middle East and later headed west into Europe, before eventually crossing the ancient land bridge called Doggerland which connected Britain to continental Europe.'

    I wonder how they figured this out.
    The whole thing seems more a show off on TV than a scientific expedition to me.

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    Yes, this is a "re-do". They've re-sequenced everything. The paper won't be out for a while. It's Chris Stringer in the video, so I don't think this is some botched up job.

    I don't think it should be a surprise that "Cheddar Man" was a WHG and, as such, would lack the derived versions of pigmentation snps which seem to lighten the skin color in modern West Eurasians, and particularly in Europeans.

    As a result, unless by some chance WHG carried some sort of convergent de-pigmentation snps so far unidentified, he would indeed have been darker than any modern West Eurasians.

    Even if that's the case, though, saying he had "black" skin seems to me to be going a bit far. There was progressive de-pigmentation with the movement out of Africa. KITLG, for example, seems to have been a major factor only out of Africa. However, if it isn't reporter mis-speak, they seem to have the full genome, so I don't know what they found. Maybe he lacks any of the de-pigmentation varieties. We'll have to wait and see.

    As to coming from the "Middle East", this may be a reference to how WHG came into Europe. We'll have to see about that too, unless more happens to be released before the paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    'The results pointed to a Middle Eastern origin for Cheddar Man, suggesting that his ancestors would have left Africa, moved into the Middle East and later headed west into Europe, before eventually crossing the ancient land bridge called Doggerland which connected Britain to continental Europe.'

    I wonder how they figured this out.
    The whole thing seems more a show off on TV than a scientific expedition to me.
    Is there not only 2 basic eye colours ! , african brown and caucasus blue ( everything else comes from these 2 mixing ) ...........if he has blue eyes , he ( or ancestors ) could have moved south into the middle east before heading to the british isles
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yes, this is a "re-do". They've re-sequenced everything. The paper won't be out for a while. It's Chris Stringer in the video, so I don't think this is some botched up job.

    I don't think it should be a surprise that "Cheddar Man" was a WHG and, as such, would lack the derived versions of pigmentation snps which seem to lighten the skin color in modern West Eurasians, and particularly in Europeans.

    As a result, unless by some chance WHG carried some sort of convergent de-pigmentation snps so far unidentified, he would indeed have been darker than any modern West Eurasians.

    Even if that's the case, though, saying he had "black" skin seems to me to be going a bit far. There was progressive de-pigmentation with the movement out of Africa. KITLG, for example, seems to have been a major factor only out of Africa. However, if it isn't reporter mis-speak, they seem to have the full genome, so I don't know what they found. Maybe he lacks any of the de-pigmentation varieties. We'll have to wait and see.

    As to coming from the "Middle East", this may be a reference to how WHG came into Europe. We'll have to see about that too, unless more happens to be released before the paper.
    Oh, forgot...since it's a re-do it's definitely some form of mtDna U5. I guess we're looking at "I" or "C" in terms of y-Dna.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I do see the WHG on him, but I do agree that black skin is a bit exaggerated

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Oh, forgot...since it's a re-do it's definitely some form of mtDna U5. I guess we're looking at "I" or "C" in terms of y-Dna.


    C. G. Seligman and F. G. Parsons; The Cheddar Man: A Skeleton of Late Palaeolithic Date. The Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland
    Vol. 44 (Jul. - Dec., 1914), pp. 241-263


    https://www.jstor.org/stable/2843352...n_tab_contents



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man





    E. K. 1975. Problems of "The Cheddar Man", Gough's Cave, Somerset. Proc. Unfa Bristol Spelaeol. Soc, 14(1), 7-23.

    http://www.ubss.org.uk/resources/pro..._14_1_7-23.pdf

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    Another "Cheddar Man" reconstruction, this model was created at the University of Manchester.

    Reconstruction of the head of Cheddar Man from a complete male skeleton found in Gough’s Cave of Cheddar Gorge, Somerset and dates to about 9,000 years ago. The skeleton was discovered in 1903 and is the oldest complete human skeleton from the United Kingdom. This model was created at the University of Manchester.
    source: http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/476884/view


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    That one doesn't resemble the other all that much
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

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    In this 2011 article, BBC says that previous reconstruction was created at the National History Museum.



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/somerset...00/9392086.stm

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I guess that would be how he'd look after adding some "cheddar" around the waistline ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    In this 2011 article, BBC says that previous reconstruction was created at the National History Museum.



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/somerset...00/9392086.stm
    They made them all fair skinned and often blue-eyed as well. Otzi too. They gave him blue eyes when we now know his were brown. He did have all the modern European de-pigmentation snps, so that part they inadvertently got right. Unweathered and tanned perpetually, he would have had fair skin. Face shape is wrong, though, and nose. With Otzi we can be more sure of a lot of things, because the body was so well preserved.

    I think we can safely say this probably isn't what a "Sardinian like" Neolithic farmer looked like...



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    I think there is a bit of wishful thinking or sensationalist claims in the way they're reporting this reconstruction and the findings of this research. The reports were telling of a "black man with curly hair", but this reconstruction to me shows no curly hair at all, but just a "dried out" long wavy hair as was expected.

    As for his skin color, as Razib Khan said in his post about this matter, we really need to make it totally clear if we do understand the architecture of skin pigmentation of these ancient populations like WHG, instead of just assuming that if they don't have the derived alleles now present to the point of fixation among Europeans then they were totally dark, the exact opposite of the pale European skin.

    I mean that because the recent study on African skin color variation clearly demonstrated that, as a polygenic trait, the skin pigmentation can also be significantly altered by other variants of genes (not to the point that the "famous" derived alleles lightened Europeans and West Asians, of course). They demonstrated clearly that there was selection for lighter or darker skin within Africa, giving a scientific explanation to what we already can see with our own eyes, which is that Khoisan Africans are evidently much lighter than Nilotic Sudanese, for example. And all that significant variation came with other genes.

    Heck, even East Asians managed to become light-skinned without those alleles that are always invariably analyzed - in some cases veeeeeery light skinned (some Northern Chinese and Koreans aren't any less pale than an average European).

    If I had to guess, considering that the WHG plausibly came from the Northern Near East, which is at an even higher latitude than South African Khoisans historically lived, I'd say that they probably had adapted to the environment by lightening their skin color at least to the same ammount of pigmentation of the lighter samples of Khoisans that we can see, that is, a mid-brown, "milk chocolate" color. The WHG were probably "dark-skinned" in this way, not like the reconstruction:


    IMO the WHG were certainly not as black as that reconstruction, whose black skin looks much more adapted to tropical regions, like the Melanesians and West Africans. Even in subtropical Africa you can find lighter-skinned black people than that reconstruction, especially the notorious case of the Igbo in tropical Nigeria. I really doubt the WHG would've managed to live for thousands of years around Turkey and later Europe and be darker than some tropical Africans.



    Igbo women

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    I think there is a bit of wishful thinking or sensationalist claims in the way they're reporting this reconstruction and the findings of this research. The reports were telling of a "black man with curly hair", but this reconstruction to me shows no curly hair at all, but just a "dried out" long wavy hair as was expected.

    As for his skin color, as Razib Khan said in his post about this matter, we really need to make it totally clear if we do understand the architecture of skin pigmentation of these ancient populations like WHG, instead of just assuming that if they don't have the derived alleles now present to the point of fixation among Europeans then they were totally dark, the exact opposite of the pale European skin.

    I mean that because the recent study on African skin color variation clearly demonstrated that, as a polygenic trait, the skin pigmentation can also be significantly altered by other variants of genes (not to the point that the "famous" derived alleles lightened Europeans and West Asians, of course). They demonstrated clearly that there was selection for lighter or darker skin within Africa, giving a scientific explanation to what we already can see with our own eyes, which is that Khoisan Africans are evidently much lighter than Nilotic Sudanese, for example. And all that significant variation came with other genes.

    Heck, even East Asians managed to become light-skinned without those alleles that are always invariably analyzed - in some cases veeeeeery light skinned (some Northern Chinese and Koreans aren't any less pale than an average European).

    If I had to guess, considering that the WHG plausibly came from the Northern Near East, which is at an even higher latitude than South African Khoisans historically lived, I'd say that they probably had adapted to the environment by lightening their skin color at least to the same ammount of pigmentation of the lighter samples of Khoisans that we can see, that is, a mid-brown, "milk chocolate" color. The WHG were probably "dark-skinned" in this way, not like the reconstruction:


    IMO the WHG were certainly not as black as that reconstruction, whose black skin looks much more adapted to tropical regions, like the Melanesians and West Africans. Even in subtropical Africa you can find lighter-skinned black people than that reconstruction, especially the notorious case of the Igbo in tropical Nigeria. I really doubt the WHG would've managed to live for thousands of years around Turkey and later Europe and be darker than some tropical Africans.



    Igbo women
    The Igbo woman in the center actually looks a bit like the reconstruction to me.
    Last edited by Angela; 07-02-18 at 22:19.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I assume that Cheddar Man was a close genetic relative of La Brana 1, a 7,000-year-old individual from the La Brana-Arintero site in Valdelugueros (Leon, Spain). Bryan Sykes' DNA analysis previously concluded that Cheddar Man had mtDNA haplogroup U5. La Brana 1 carried Y-DNA haplogroup C6-V20, a low-frequency European clade of haplogroup C found in less than 0.1% of Europeans today, and mtDNA haplogroup U5b2c1 (Olalde et al. 2014). Cheddar Man may also have carried Y-DNA haplogroup C6, which explains his darker skin pigmentation compared to modern Europeans. But given his maternal DNA ancestry typical in northern Europe, his skin color may have been light brown rather than black.





    The mean coverage obtained for the Y chromosome (1.4x) prevented us from recovering phylogenetically relevant SNPs at high coverage. However, using unfiltered data, we were able to narrow down the paternal lineage affiliation of La Braña 1 individual (Table S9). The presence of the derived allele in many different mutations defining haplogroups A1, A1b, BT, CT and CF suggests La Braña 1 sample belongs to either haplogroup C or F. When mutations defining those haplogroups were checked, only ancestral alleles were found in the haplogroup F-defining mutations, whereas four C-defining mutations (M130, M216, P255 and P260) showed only derived alleles. Thus, La Braña 1 most likely belonged to haplogroup C.

    The actual distribution of haplogroupC is thought to be a consequence of a single out of Africa migration through Southern Asia, followed by a northward migration that eventually reached Siberia and the Americas 32. The fact that we found ancestral alleles in mutations defining C1, C2, C3 and C4 (Table S9), together with their actual phylogeographic distribution restricted to Asia, Oceania and the Americas suggests that our individual does not belong to any of these branches. Rather, a new branch within haplogroup C (C6, originally named C7) has recently been identified in several men from Southern Europe, suggesting this could be an ancient European clade33. Importantly, mutation V20 showed one read with the derived allele (A), which points to C6 as the most probable sub-clade for La Braña 1 sample. It could also be possible that this G to A mutation is a result of DNA damage. Other less likely haplogroup affiliations are C* and C5 (no read covered SNP M356), both found mainly in present-day India.

    Besides the V20 mutation, four other positions could have potentially been assigned wrongly due to the presence of DNA damage. However, their allele state is phylogenetically coherent with the rest of the SNPs studied. The precise affiliation of La Braña 1 in the Y-chromosome phylogeny could be better determined in the future with more data and increased genomic coverage.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4269527/
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 08-02-18 at 00:24.
    Давайте вместе снова сделаем мир великий!

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