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Thread: Albanian AncestryDNA results

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    Albanian AncestryDNA results

    Hello guys,
    I was born in Tirana, Albania ( and as far as i know all my ancestors are born in Albania ). I made my Ancestry DNA test and found out that i am 90% Mediterranean ( Southern Europe ), 5% Eastern Europe, 2% Caucasus, 2% Finnish and 1% Scandinavian. I uploaded my raw data on WeGene and i found out that my Y-DNA is I2a1b and mtDNA is U5a1. However, i've seen many Albanians posting their results around and their ancestry from Eastern Europe is around 20 - 30%. One had 48%. They never score as high in Southern Europe as i do ( 90% ). I was wondering, does that make me more or less "native" Albanian?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeidiCole View Post
    Hello guys,
    I was born in Tirana, Albania ( and as far as i know all my ancestors are born in Albania ). I made my Ancestry DNA test and found out that i am 90% Mediterranean ( Southern Europe ), 5% Eastern Europe, 2% Caucasus, 2% Finnish and 1% Scandinavian. I uploaded my raw data on WeGene and i found out that my Y-DNA is I2a1b and mtDNA is U5a1. However, i've seen many Albanians posting their results around and their ancestry from Eastern Europe is around 20 - 30%. One had 48%. They never score as high in Southern Europe as i do ( 90% ). I was wondering, does that make me more or less "native" Albanian?
    AncestryDNA algorithm is based on DNA matches. It may not be exactly reflective of the truth. If you're scoring 90 SE, then most likely you have Gheg ancestry. Ghegs are scoring between 80-90 SE.

    I2a1b arrived with the Slavic tribes during the great migration in the early middle ages. Not sure about your MTDNA, other than it arrived with Indo-Europeans.

    Also, theres no specific autosomal breakdown that makes one native over another. Admixture differs region to region depending on many factors throughout history.

    I2a1b/R1a are more prevelant in central and southern Albania, and is most probably associated with the first wave of medieval Slavic tribes that settled there. Like Baiounitai tribe for instance. Early waves were assimilated into Byzantium. From there it could have been disseminated into Greek/Vlach/and Albanian. No way to no which route it took first.

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    My results ( forgot to attach them )

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    Thank you!

    My mom is originally from Mirdita and my dad from Vlora so I am both Gheg and Tosk. But does Eastern Europe means Slavic? Because maybe that 5% is related to my haplotype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    AncestryDNA algorithm is based on DNA matches. It may not be exactly reflective of the truth. If you're scoring 90 SE, then most likely you have Gheg ancestry. Ghegs are scoring between 80-90 SE.

    I2a1b arrived with the Slavic tribes during the great migration in the early middle ages. Not sure about your MTDNA, other than it arrived with Indo-Europeans.

    Also, theres no specific autosomal breakdown that makes one native over another. Admixture differs region to region depending on many factors throughout history.

    I2a1b/R1a are more prevelant in central and southern Albania, and is most probably associated with the first wave of medieval Slavic tribes that settled there. Like Baiounitai tribe for instance. Early waves were assimilated into Byzantium. From there it could have been disseminated into Greek/Vlach/and Albanian. No way to no which route it took first.
    One more question: if Ancestry is not correct, which one might be the best way to "check" the real thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeidiCole View Post
    One more question: if Ancestry is not correct, which one might be the best way to "check" the real thing?
    It is not that they're not correct. Rather, since their algorithm relies on dna relatives it may be slightly distorted. I don't think we will have absolute accuracy until larger samples are tested. Tomorrow they can test a million Albanians, and the averages for certain genetic components could change.

    Chances are(given probability) that it won't change much. Given the north-south distinction, depending on where ancestry is from it may come out differently.

    I prefer 23andme though. LivingDNA is decent, supposedly undertaking a huge regionalization project for each country. That may take years to be done though.

    Have you been to Gedmatch.com? Pretty useful for using population admixture calculators to see how yo relate to other populations.

    Theres even an option to search by population group so you can specifically use calculators with your ethnic group. Its important not to take it too literally though. Many ethnic groups cluster with each other. For instance if theres no Albanian reference, you will usually be modeled after the closest ethnic group, so Greek Thessaly and Tuscany.

    Some Albanians have atypical percentages for some components and can get results that may be misleading. There should be enough accuracy to get an idea though.

    Just download your Autosomal DNA file from AncestryDNA. Upload to Gedmatch after creating an account, and try out their calculators.

    Let me know if you have any issues. I can always run some calculators for you once you have your gedmatch kit #.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by KeidiCole View Post
    Thank you!

    My mom is originally from Mirdita and my dad from Vlora so I am both Gheg and Tosk. But does Eastern Europe means Slavic? Because maybe that 5% is related to my haplotype.
    Autosomal and Haplogroup are unrelated. Maybe not entirely, but mostly. Lets say(as is probably the case for me) that your paternal ancestor 1500 years ago was a Slavic tribesman, in only one generation of marrying a native woman, the DNA structure changes by half. It does not take very long to autosomally reconfigure the DNA.

    Some Albanians are Y-DNA Albanian natives, but may be autosomally more mixed and come up more south slavic(sometimes the case for Montenegrin Albanians and Southernmost Albanians).

    Also, Vlora was a hotspot for the Baiounitai Slavic tribe. I am from Diber, but found many autosomal surnamed mutual relatives from Berat/Korce. So It likely explains my R1a. Perhaps my male ancestor was coming from Southern Albania at some point in time.

    Most Gheg YDNA is exclusively V13,J2B,R1b. I2a1b and R1a are more prevelant in Central and Southern Albania. I have noticed Arberesh and Arvanites have alot more R1a/I2a than modern Albanians from Albania.

    I2a/R1a was likely assimilated Avaro-Slavs into Byzantium in the case of Greece and Albania. From there it could have gone from Byzantine to Albanian or maybe from Byzantine to Greek/Vlach and then to Albanian. Its hard to tell as every case may be different.

    With time and more testing picture will become clearer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    It is not that they're not correct. Rather, since their algorithm relies on dna relatives it may be slightly distorted. I don't think we will have absolute accuracy until larger samples are tested. Tomorrow they can test a million Albanians, and the averages for certain genetic components could change.

    Chances are(given probability) that it won't change much. Given the north-south distinction, depending on where ancestry is from it may come out differently.

    I prefer 23andme though. LivingDNA is decent, supposedly undertaking a huge regionalization project for each country. That may take years to be done though.

    Have you been to Gedmatch.com? Pretty useful for using population admixture calculators to see how yo relate to other populations.

    Theres even an option to search by population group so you can specifically use calculators with your ethnic group. Its important not to take it too literally though. Many ethnic groups cluster with each other. For instance if theres no Albanian reference, you will usually be modeled after the closest ethnic group, so Greek Thessaly and Tuscany.

    Some Albanians have atypical percentages for some components and can get results that may be misleading. There should be enough accuracy to get an idea though.

    Just download your Autosomal DNA file from AncestryDNA. Upload to Gedmatch after creating an account, and try out their calculators.

    Let me know if you have any issues. I can always run some calculators for you once you have your gedmatch kit #.
    Thanks for the info! I have done the DNAland ( 95% Southern Europe, 5% Western Europe ) and Gedmatch as well, and you're so accurate; Tuscan, Greek and Albanian are the ones always showing up! Tuscan sometimes shows as far as 2. One amazing thing about AncestryDNA is that I found out I have many cousins ( 4 - 8 ) from Southern Italy and one of them who was Calabrian contacted me. That means that even if 600 years apart from arbereshe people, the genes are still holding strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Autosomal and Haplogroup are unrelated. Maybe not entirely, but mostly. Lets say(as is probably the case for me) that your paternal ancestor 1500 years ago was a Slavic tribesman, in only one generation of marrying a native woman, the DNA structure changes by half. It does not take very long to autosomally reconfigure the DNA.

    Some Albanians are Y-DNA Albanian natives, but may be autosomally more mixed and come up more south slavic(sometimes the case for Montenegrin Albanians and Southernmost Albanians).

    Also, Vlora was a hotspot for the Baiounitai Slavic tribe. I am from Diber, but found many autosomal surnamed mutual relatives from Berat/Korce. So It likely explains my R1a. Perhaps my male ancestor was coming from Southern Albania at some point in time.

    Most Gheg YDNA is exclusively V13,J2B,R1b. I2a1b and R1a are more prevelant in Central and Southern Albania. I have noticed Arberesh and Arvanites have alot more R1a/I2a than modern Albanians from Albania.

    I2a/R1a was likely assimilated Avaro-Slavs into Byzantium in the case of Greece and Albania. From there it could have gone from Byzantine to Albanian or maybe from Byzantine to Greek/Vlach and then to Albanian. Its hard to tell as every case may be different.

    With time and more testing picture will become clearer.
    Oh wow! It's so interesting to read about these things and so fascinating knowing how people have mixed and migrated in time.

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    Oh wow! It's so interesting to read about these things and so fascinating knowing how people have mixed and migrated in time.
    If you have subclade I-S17250 then surely your male ancestor come from White Croatia.http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tr...r%20Hg%20I.pdfhttps://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-CroatiaAlthough it is possible that and others subclades behind I-CTS10228 come from White Croatia to Balkans, whether with Croats or Slavs we will know in the future.https://yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/
    The Croatian name in the toponym was confirmed in Ohrid, Prespa and Bitola (Macedonia), near the Marathon and not far from Mycenae in Greece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    If you have subclade I-S17250 then surely your male ancestor come from White Croatia.http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tr...r%20Hg%20I.pdfhttps://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-CroatiaAlthough it is possible that and others subclades behind I-CTS10228 come from White Croatia to Balkans, whether with Croats or Slavs we will know in the future.https://yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/
    Why are you differentiating Croats from Slavs? Croats actually have some of the highest Slavic admixture in the Balkans. I2a1b was perpetuated by Sklavenoi tribes. Theres a chance some Goths may have carried it, but the branch to which Balkanites belong arrived only in the middle ages with Slavs. His branch isn't necessarily from Croatia. It would be if most of his older matches are from Croatia. But I2a1b was perpetuated by all Sklavenoi(along with R1a Z280/M458) from all directions of the Urheimat. I2a1b is also in the farthest reaches of Ukraine and elsewhere in NE Europe. Can't be called specifically Croatian. maybe some branches are. But it all depends. What is the frequency of CTS10228 in non Balkan countries? Assuming it still has high amounts in East Slavs, I wouldn't say everyone with CTS10228 is directly from Croatia. But, rather, a big amount of CTS10228 moved to the region of Croatia among others. There was also a bottleneck in the case of Bosnia with CTS10228. Is I-S17250 predominantly in Croatia? then that would be the Croatian clade I imagine. Is this clade found elsewhere among other Slavs, South, West or East or North?

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    Why are you differentiating Croats from Slavs? Croats actually have some of the highest Slavic admixture in the Balkans.
    We must also use and written historical records, who do not mention arrival of White Croats to Greece, Albania etc.., but some Slavs are mentioned.

    I2a1b was perpetuated by Sklavenoi tribes.
    I'm talking about this haplotype I2a1b2a1a1a1 and subclade or branch I-S17250 https://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/


    Theres a chance some Goths may have carried it
    But Goths are not mentioned in White Croatia, whether some of them (White Croats) ride with Goths we'll see in the future because for now there is no such data.

    His branch isn't necessarily from Croatia.
    If he has subclade I-S17250 then some of his male ancestors was born in White Croatia and with whom and when it comes to the Balkans genetics will say.

    But I2a1b was perpetuated by all Sklavenoi(along with R1a Z280/M458) from all directions
    For now if we follow subclade I-S17250 migration moves from White Croatia to Balkans at least for people with subclade I-S17250.

    I2a1b is also in the farthest reaches of Ukraine and elsewhere in NE Europe.
    I'm talking about I2a1b2a1a1a1

    Can't be called specifically Croatian. maybe some branches are.



    https://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/


    What is the frequency of CTS10228 in non Balkan countries? Assuming it still has high amounts in East Slavs, I wouldn't say everyone with CTS10228 is directly from Croatia.
    It's (CTS10228) a grandfather of White Croats, that grandfather lives in a time when White Croats are not mentioned but still has a source in the later area of White Croatia and his descendants are probably participated in the creation of White Croatia.

    But, rather, a big amount of CTS10228 moved to the region of Croatia among others.
    Which Croatia?

    There was also a bottleneck in the case of Bosnia with CTS10228. Is I-S17250 predominantly in Croatia? then that would be the Croatian clade I imagine. Is this clade found elsewhere among other Slavs, South, West or East or North?
    I'm talking about migrating from White Croatia to Balkans and not about migration from today Croatia to Balkans.

    CTS10228
    The same has a source in White Croatia and it is logical that subclades behind it also originate there who later forming White Croatian tribe, which subclades are they carry I do not know at this time because I do not have enough data. I only know about branch or subclade I-S17250 because all Croatian I2a types connect this subclade and that is a logical conclusion.
    Last edited by hrvat22; 15-02-18 at 22:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Why are you differentiating Croats from Slavs?
    Unfortunately he is trying to politicize genomics like many across Southeastern Europe (and elsewhere) frequently do, hence his constant refrain of "White Croatia/White Croats" which is just as bad as some of the extreme types on poreklo.rs already attaching the term 'Serbian markers' to certain clades/sub-clades.

    It is wayyyyyy too early for Europeans to be doing any of this labeling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido Anselmi View Post
    Unfortunately he is trying to politicize genomics like many across Southeastern Europe (and elsewhere) frequently do, hence his constant refrain of "White Croatia/White Croats" which is just as bad as some of the extreme types on poreklo.rs already attaching the term 'Serbian markers' to certain clades/sub-clades.It is wayyyyyy too early for Europeans to be doing any of this labeling.
    It is very easy to refute my politics with genetic and historical records. https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia
    the term 'Serbian markers' to certain clades/sub-clades.
    Everyone has the right to claim what he wants but it has prove with something. For these claims 'Serbian markers' there is no evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido Anselmi View Post
    Unfortunately he is trying to politicize genomics like many across Southeastern Europe (and elsewhere) frequently do, hence his constant refrain of "White Croatia/White Croats" which is just as bad as some of the extreme types on poreklo.rs already attaching the term 'Serbian markers' to certain clades/sub-clades.

    It is wayyyyyy too early for Europeans to be doing any of this labeling.
    I agree. Theres no aDNA for M458 for instance, and everyone vehemently spews that it was and is only carried by the Medieval Slavs. How such conclusions can be drawn by modern distributions with no aDNA puzzles me.

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    White Croatia has taken its place in Albanian AncestryDNA results. Expansion rate is very high so we can expect that White Croatia occupies all Eupedia forum during 2018 :)

    BTW, it would be nice if some of Albanian I-CTS10228 (I2a Dinaric) order some advanced SNP tests like I2a SNP pack at Yseq.
    In scientific papers among Albanian I2a results Dinaric north (DYS448=20) is a prevalent clade, there are some indications a good part of it might be Z17855.

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    Hi ! Very interesting post ! I ‘m also an albanian from the south and my haplo is I-CTS10228 ... my grand father from my dad side was from Peshtan... Fier

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Autosomal and Haplogroup are unrelated. Maybe not entirely, but mostly. Lets say(as is probably the case for me) that your paternal ancestor 1500 years ago was a Slavic tribesman, in only one generation of marrying a native woman, the DNA structure changes by half. It does not take very long to autosomally reconfigure the DNA.

    Some Albanians are Y-DNA Albanian natives, but may be autosomally more mixed and come up more south slavic(sometimes the case for Montenegrin Albanians and Southernmost Albanians).

    Also, Vlora was a hotspot for the Baiounitai Slavic tribe. I am from Diber, but found many autosomal surnamed mutual relatives from Berat/Korce. So It likely explains my R1a. Perhaps my male ancestor was coming from Southern Albania at some point in time.

    Most Gheg YDNA is exclusively V13,J2B,R1b. I2a1b and R1a are more prevelant in Central and Southern Albania. I have noticed Arberesh and Arvanites have alot more R1a/I2a than modern Albanians from Albania.

    I2a/R1a was likely assimilated Avaro-Slavs into Byzantium in the case of Greece and Albania. From there it could have gone from Byzantine to Albanian or maybe from Byzantine to Greek/Vlach and then to Albanian. Its hard to tell as every case may be different.

    With time and more testing picture will become clearer.
    I think the Slavic DNA in southern Albania is mostly Bulgarian, but also Gothic. Goths were a mixture of Germans with Slavs. Bulgarians were there 120 years and Goths 200 years. On the other hand Arvanites and Arbereshe are related. Most Arbereshe are Arvanites that fled Turkish occupation after they lost to Turks in Peloponesian wars. Their famous song is : Moj e Bukura More: More was medieval name of Peloponnese. Most arvanites and Arbereshe are from Berat,Skrapar, Gramsh three areas next to each other so they don't give e wide picture of Albanian DNA. Also Arvanites started arriving in Peloponnese since 10 century so some of them had been there for 500 years before Turks. So they could have been there mixed with Slavs and Greeks.
    Now my question as far as Albanian DNA goes is:
    The Caucasus and Middle eastern DNA is necessary Turkish or Could be something else than Turkish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriele Pashaj View Post
    Hi ! Very interesting post ! I ‘m also an albanian from the south and my haplo is I-CTS10228 ... my grand father from my dad side was from Peshtan... Fier
    Peshtani i madh apo Peshtani i vogël?

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    Me thene te verteten se di edhe perse pastaj gjyshi u largua nga fshati i vet .. di vetem qe eshte nga atje. 😊

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    Tani e pyta babin.. ishte nga Peshtani i vogel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriele Pashaj View Post
    Tani e pyta babin.. ishte nga Peshtani i vogel
    Ok. Peshtan i Madh are mostly Vlachs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriele Pashaj View Post
    Hi ! Very interesting post ! I ‘m also an albanian from the south and my haplo is I-CTS10228 ... my grand father from my dad side was from Peshtan... Fier
    Do you have Y-STR markers with values on DYS448 and DYS449 to see whether you belong to Dinaric South or Dinaric North cluster?
    DYS448=20 or higher and DYS449=31 or higher are dinaric north results.
    Would you do some advanced test to see which downstream subclade you belong to?
    Subclades are shown on Y-trees:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/

    https://www.yseq.net/images/trees/I2a-M423_tree.pdf

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    Hi Vlad 82! Maybe in future ! What do you think , being a southern slav , about albanians that have this type of haplogroup ? ( I mean I2 )

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    I mean , what is their supposed origin from the father side ? Just for curiosity

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