Gabriele Pashaj
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Tani e pyta babin.. ishte nga Peshtani i vogel
LABERIA
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Ok. Peshtan i Madh are mostly Vlachs.
Do you have Y-STR markers with values on DYS448 and DYS449 to see whether you belong to Dinaric South or Dinaric North cluster?
DYS448=20 or higher and DYS449=31 or higher are dinaric north results.
Would you do some advanced test to see which downstream subclade you belong to?
Subclades are shown on Y-trees:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/
https://www.yseq.net/images/trees/I2a-M423_tree.pdf
Gabriele Pashaj
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Hi Vlad 82! Maybe in future ! What do you think , being a southern slav , about albanians that have this type of haplogroup ? ( I mean I2 )
Gabriele Pashaj
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I mean , what is their supposed origin from the father side ? Just for curiosity
Dibran
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I suppose so. It could have been the other way around. I do notice the people who bare my surname in Berat/Korce have Vlach first names and or Greek.
Also a medieval Albanian clan with our surname was mentioned as Albanian with mixed Greek and Vlach ancestry.
Possibly one and the same considering L1029 is more in Bulgaria/Romania/Macedonia/Northern Greece. Mine did form a founder effect with my Albanian match from Gostivar. So it likely was assimilated into Albanians early on. Based on my novels that my match had tested(still need to order 12 more SNPs), we match 4 out of 8. So our TMRCA is currently 1000ypb within our founder clade. Once the other SNPs are tested, this may be adjusted to have a closer TMRCA and or possibly even further(1600ybp). So it either was assimilated early on in 400AD, or around 1000AD or later.
So it appears my branch participated in the modern ethnogenesis of our people.
I plan on testing him for the rest of my novels soon.
The middle eastern can be explained in many ways I think. Turkish is one possibility, but also could have been transmitted via other earlier tribes. Maybe even island Greeks moving to the mainland too? They have pretty high Caucasus. Integrated Balkan Turks since the middle ages etc. It could also be a far older component.
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Can you give some examples of these Vlach and Greek first names?
Who is this medieval Albanian clan that you are talking and where is mentioned that this clan is of mixed Vlach and Greek ancestry? Could you quote some serious sources?
Dibran
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The few I saw were named Jani, Vasil, Bako, Aristidh, Marko.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasile_Lupu
Vasil Lupu of Moldova, was son of Nikoll Koci in Macedonia, with origins from Epirus.
The sources to the books are at the bottom of the page. Other than this source there is only one other, ocnal(which I do not trust due to some wild claims). However in this case I will include it, as its basically saying the same thing as the wikipedia source.
http://www.ocnal.com/2016/09/vasil-kocilupu-albanian-wolf-who-ruled.html
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These names are orthodox names. I hope you know that part of Albanians are Orthodox. I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that these names are of Vlachs or Greeks, you didn't explained this. In the regions mentioned by you, Berat/Korce there are not Greeks.
Vasile Lupu or Koçi, is not Greek or Vlach, he is Albanian. His origine is not clear from which part of Albania he is. If we accept as his origin Arbanasi in Bulgaria, exist a possibility that he was from Kurvelesh, Labëria region. I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that you are related with this person. Again you didn't explained this, as you didn't explained your theory that your branch partecipated on the ethnogenesis of the Albanians.
You pretend many things Dibran. Allow me to give an friendly advice, try to be serious with this things.
Dibran
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You have a venomous tongue. More importantly, you make the most base of claims. As you know nothing of my line or family I am going to tell you to shut up and zip it. My clade you know nothing about because you have never taken nor do you know anything about genetics on even a basic level. My line is more common in Southern Albania, Northern Greece, Romania, Bulgaria and Macedonia. Its relatively absent from the north where my family has been for only 400 years, So please refrain from your snobbery. Refrain from telling me what you do or do not know about my family.Whats more I share autosomal DNA with these individual Koci through our common DNA relatives on FTDNA. So again, you know nothing.I am also related to 2 Polocoser from Moldova who trace their descent to Lupu through marriage to his daughter.Now I will give you some advice. Before you question people for things you know absolutely nothing about, and make some outlandish claims yourself, don't expect anyone to take you seriously.You're a joke on apricity. All anyone here needs to do is see half of the lies and bs you spread.So, considering you know nothing of my family history, you would do well to keep your mouth shut if you have nothing constructive to add other than insult.You really continue to give Labs a bad name every where.
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Sorry but apart this failed attempt to find some illustrious ancestor, your only contribution in this forum is to say nonsense. How can you say for example that those people are not Albanians but Vlachs or Greeks? You didn't answer to this question, was the first question in my post.
Your problem is that you want to discuss about things that you have no idea. I have asked you many times to elaborate your bizarre theories and you have refuted to do it or you have just copy-paste nonsense from internet. How can you pretend to discuss about Albanian history when you have not read a single book? You have accused Albanian scholars, all of them, en-bloc. Can you tell us what is the problem with the Albanian scholars?
BTW, if i am not wrong, a couple of months ago you claimed to be related with Bua Shpata family.
Keep playing with your haplogroups, but please avoid to involve the history of my country in your lunatic theories.
Dibran
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Their names look pretty Vlach to me. Orthodox. Whatever.
The source itself mentions some possibility of being either Albanian mixed with Greek and or Vlach, or just Albanian. READ
This is what I mean by you know nothing you stupid piece of crap. My mothers line is related to Gjin Bua Shpata. Her family migrated from the South. Don't pretend to know jack about me and mines. You are the biggest ***** on apricity.
You're going to call me a lunatic when you spread lies every waking day on the forums claiming Greek history as Albanian. You know nothing about Albania other than the nationalistic propaganda you peddle that half the world would laugh off any way as fanciful desire.
No one takes Albanian scholars seriously. Like every other Balkan scholar, they spew bullshit based on their nationalist propaganda.
Thats where people like you come in. You even have other Albanians on apricity calling you out on your constant bs.
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First, i have never claimed Greek history as Albanian.
My posts have nothing to do with nationalism. My posts are very correct. If you can find one post of mine that you consider as nationalistic or not correct, you are free to quote and to explain what is wrong with it. If you can not find one, you have to ask sorry. Personally i hate idiots who only talk and never use any reference in their posts, so usually i am very careful.
If you can quote a single Albanian scholar who you consider not serious, you have the obligation to tell us the name and explain why. If you can not tell us a name, again you have to say sorry.
If you are really related with Bue Shpata family, maybe you have even a documented genealogy.
BTW, from your thread i read that you are related even with Stafa and Pitsari(Picari in Albanian), are you also related with Qemal Stafa and Celo Picari?
Edit
I insist, how do you know that the names of the persons mentioned by you, Jani, Vasil, Bako, etc, are Vlachs or Greeks and not Albanians?
Dibran
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You're a disrespectful smug moron. I am not speaking to you any further. Way to stalk and search for me off the Forums. You psycho.
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Thank you. I consider this an answer.
BTW, since you mentioned apricity, you remember that some people considered and continue to consider you a sllav because of your haplogroup and i intervened and i said that you are an Albanian.
Angela
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Laberia: One more point and you're banned. You don't get to stalk members and post their private information.
Dibran: I know you're being provoked, but report, don't insult.
I'm trying to remember if I've ever heard of anything as idiotic as assigning "ethnicity" because of a ydna lineage. Maybe I have, but it's way up there.
Dibran: I know you're being provoked, but report, don't insult.
I'm trying to remember if I've ever heard of anything as idiotic as assigning "ethnicity" because of a ydna lineage. Maybe I have, but it's way up there.
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Excuse me but i quoted from this thread:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32860-Balkan-R1a1a-maternal-H11a
This is not stalking, i didn`t posted his private information. He posted this info. I simply asked from him to elaborate better. I didn`t provoked nobody. I simply asked to this poster to prove his claims. I think this the most elementary thing that can be asked to a member. He refuted, offended me and you gave me an infraction.
It is possible, I-CTS10228 is very common for South Slavs, especially PH908 also called Dinaric South, values on DYS448=19 or lower and DYS449=31 or lower values. From scientific studies, we know that other case „Dinaric North“ DYS448=20+ is more often in Albania than „Dinaric South“.
For Slavs around Albania (Montenegro, South Serbia, Western Macedonia, Aegean Macedonia) who belong to Dinaric North, the most common SNP is Z17855, but Y4460 and S17250 have been confirmed as well. There is one Albania Z17855/A1221 result from Southern part of country, two tested Slavs Z17855+ from Montenegro and Macedonia might have possible origin from Nothern Albania, and there is a Pomak family with the possible origin from Albania tested as Y4460.
Among Albanian I2a din Y-STR haplotypes I found many of them similar to confirmed Z17855 haplotypes. Y-STR matching is not an excellent way to predict subclades in CTS10228, so we need at least 10 Albanian I-CTS10228 results from all parts of the country who will order individual SNP tests/SNP panels or WGS tests to examine structure of this haplogroup in Albania.
Epirus have the high percentage of I-CTS10228, but there is no marker DYS448 included in scientific study to see ratio dinaric north/south. In public bases exist only two results, one Aromanian tested Dinaric South and a Greek tested Dinaric North S17250/ Z16971
Among Greeks has been found a branch of CTS10228 named A2512, this SNP is very often in South Greece, for now it is not found among any group of Slavs. Haplogroup I-CTS10228 have the highest diversity around Northern Carpathians and Western Ukraine, this suggests possible origin from this area. Branch A2512 very likely come to Balkan before Slavic expansion, maybe some other subclades follow other migration from North to South, we can only think about it before archaeogenetic gives us some results and answers.
What your ancestors on paternal line had been before they become Albanians depends on it where you will find your close relatives on deeper subclades under CTS10228. Sometimes you can wait a long time before close matches appear because many areas and ethnic groups in Balkans are still uncovered in terms of structure and diversity of CTS10228.
You can do a classical genealogical research in Church books and Turkish document to find names of your ancestors and possible ethnic origin. Unfortunately, in many regions and places this books/documents are not accessible or do not exist more.
Gabriele Pashaj
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Thank you very much for your answer Vlad ! It is very exciting to discover that in one point of your genealocal tree somebody has an origin that you do not expect! I hope in future to take anothere more accurate test ... Obviously ..even though through my paternal side I discovered this type of ydna I feel very albanian ... but I do remark one thing... maybe I‘m wrong but in south Albania there are many cities with possible slavic name origin .... for example there is a village in Fier that is called ‘Novosele ‘ .. and i think it could be translated to a slavic language as ‘new village ‘ or something else ... Besides I think that dna ancestry test could be also an attempt to destroy this sort of stupid hate that balkan people have to each other ... I would put my all test here but i do not know how to do this ... sorry for my poor english ... very interesting forum .. obvious ... race purity does not exist and so maybe albanian , serbian and other nationalism are only creation of human silliness ... only because they bring us to hate each other .. I always think that is a sin that two people that have common land (Balkan ) can be like cat and mouse ..
Your origin could be from the Vajuniti tribe,they settled southern Albania and Epirus,tribe known as Baiounitai.Also the village your grandfather comes from "Pesthan" has a Slavic origin name with meaning a "cave" or "dungeon" see peshtera, “cave”,village Peshtani in Macedonia etc.
There is many Slavic toponyms in that region but is not my point to start "nationalist" debate here,just to try and help about your possible origin.
English article about the tribe,but there is other but i guess you don't understand Slavic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiounitai
On this map see the tribe name in southern Albania
The name of this tribe has been suggested as deriving from the Slavic word vojnici ("warriors"), so the name of this tribe can be translated as "a tribe of warriors"
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