Just found out that im i1-M227 .

[saltyshanker]

My grandfather took a FTDNA test a couple of years back and sent me some info on his haplogroup and he got i1-M227 .

i did some research on it and its very interesting since its not found in scandinavia what so ever , and occurs at very low frequencies around continental europe meaning this is from pre-germanic migrations.

Could this be from a population that didnt go north into Scandinavia with the others when the glacial sheets retreated ?

Here is a post from Eupedia - I1a1 has never been reported in Scandnavia it only exists in Urlaic and Slavic speakers in eastern Europe, Baltics, Poland, Beluras, Switzerland, France,southwest England, and Turkey at about 1%.

The ancestor where i get my surname and haplogroup from was born in switzerland .

[Messier 67]

My grandfather took a FTDNA test a couple of years back and sent me some info on his haplogroup and he got i1-M227 .

i did some research on it and its very interesting since its not found in scandinavia what so ever , and occurs at very low frequencies around continental europe meaning this is from pre-germanic migrations.

Could this be from a population that didnt go north into Scandinavia with the others when the glacial sheets retreated ?

Here is a post from Eupedia - I1a1 has never been reported in Scandnavia it only exists in Urlaic and Slavic speakers in eastern Europe, Baltics, Poland, Beluras, Switzerland, France,southwest England, and Turkey at about 1%.

The ancestor where i get my surname and haplogroup from was born in switzerland .

I1 is believed to be started around the time of the proto-slavic (R1a) and proto-celtic (R1b) invasion. At that time very small in numbers. According to yfull, a TMRCA of 3,100 BCE to 2,200 BCE.

So it is not as old as I2a and I2b, which were spread across most of Europe in Neolithic times.

At eupedia it states: "M227+ has been found in Scandinavia, Baltic countries, Belarus, Russia, Poland, Switzerland, France and southern England. It could have been spread by Varangian Vikings."

At yfull: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-M227/ with an age of between 1500 BCE to 400 BCE.

[saltyshanker]

I was looking at something else on eupedia than because the thing i was looking at said it has never been reported in scandinavia . Please list me one example of m227 being found in a native Scandinavian . M227 wasn't brought during the Germanic Migrations , sorry to break it to you .

[Messier 67]

I was looking at something else on eupedia than because the thing i was looking at said it has never been reported in scandinavia . Please list me one example of m227 being found in a native Scandinavian . M227 wasn't brought during the Germanic Migrations , sorry to break it to you .

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...DNA.shtml#SNPs

I believe, and 99% of those on this forum will disagree, that I1 were the founders of the Germanic tribes. I1 Germanic tribes were a reconquest of Europe by Nordic people, conquering the celtic and slavic invaders and incorporating them into the army and germanic tribe like Napoleon did with Non-French people in the Grand Army that invaded Russia. Unlike Napoleon's failed conquest of Europe, the Germanics were successful in taking much of Europe back from the Celts and Slavs (using Celts and Slavs), especially in Northern, Central and Western Europe. By the end of the Germanic invasions, it was a Roman world conquered, but still had a majority of R1a and R1b in the Western Empire.

To support this belief, is the evidence of the Saxons during the 300s-400s CE being about 67% I (mainly I1). And that Lombards put a high amount of I, particularly I1 in Molise. Nearly all Germanic/Nordic tribes were high I1, R1b and R1a. nearly all Celtic tribes were R1b. And nearly all Slavic tribes were R1a. The key component in nearly all of the Germanic tribes was the introduction of I1 into celtic and slavic population, as conquerors. But everyone on the forum will tell me, there is no way I1 were warrior conquerors of Europe establishing the Germanic tribes.

The explanation why the Vandals show no I in North Africa could easily be explained by the Vandals being a conquered Celto-Slavic population, but were a breakaway tribe that the Nordic I1 did not lead after the Vandals became a tribe. Like some Hispanic population in the states 200 years from now, that leaves Los Angeles, speaks English, not Spanish, because they are from California, but goes to Latin America pillaging and sacking cities. They are of the same stock as the Latin Americans, but speak English. Why? Because they were a break away tribe.

[saltyshanker]

I see your point , maybe i was just misinformed lmao

[Zvrk9]

Interesting idea and explanation Messier 67. But talking just about I1 is too broad, too high level. We have difficulty even explaining distribution patterns of some smaller I1 subgroups that are distributed both W-E and N-S. We likely have multi-stage migration events in time and tribe migrations with multi-haplogroups.

[Rizla]

Messier 67. It's not that I think you are completely wrong, but you have a strange way of wording it, and it sounds like you are extremely oversimplifying something very complex - or maybe I'm just missunderstanding you, but it sounds like some kind of wierd I1 nationalism.


There was no "reconquest of Europe by Nordic people" - there was the age of migration, after the downfall of the roman empire - And that migration wasn't driven by Y-DNA I1 if that's what you mean.


I1 one isn't what defines the germanic people. The germanic culture and language came about as a merger between proto-celtic mostly R1b-106 centum-speaking people, migrating from central Europe, merging with satem-speaking mostly R1a-Z284 CWC/battleaxe people, who had before that assimilated I1 scandinavian farmers. Who themselves most likely migrated there from the north of germany from the TRB culture. Mostly displacing the SHG's, who were at that time inhabiting Denmark, forcing them north or just to perish. Like PWC in Sweden? (Only baltic people have serious SHG admixture) All this would have been happening from the LNE to EBA IIRC. By the start of the iron age in Scandinavia 500 BC, this would have been the appearance of the proto-germanic speaking germanics in south scandinavia.


By the time of the migration period, AD375-568 they were quite homogenous germanic speaking tribes, fanning out in many directions, probably for various reasons. Greener pastures, adventure, looking for spoils of war, glory and fame etc. No grandscale "reconquest of Europe". The Slavs were likewhise expanding east at south aswell, at more or less the same time.


By the way. The TRB I1 immigrants would themselves have been a mix of WHG and EEF. Scandinavians are autosomally WHG+alot of steppe+a little EEF, as well as very, very little SHG, as I understand it from the latest studies. Just strange that non of the other TRB Y-DNA HG's didn't come along up to Scandinavia. Like I2 and G2. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Founder effect and all.


Of cause, alternatively I1 could have come to Scandinavia with R1b people, but I doubt it, because of the distinctly finnish subclade, that seems to have gotten there very early.

I1 is a bit of a mystery still, because it basically just explodes out of nowhere in the scandinavian bronze age. I sometimes wonder if it could have been a EHG Y-DNA HG, that came down from fennoscandia. But I actually find it unlikely.