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Thread: Balkan Linguistics

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    Thracian cities: Seuthopolis, Sosopolis,Thasos, Zesutera, Stryme, Syrakelai, Sestos, Serdica, Selymbria, Sarmizegetusa, Samothrake, Salmydessos, Perperec, Eumolpia/ Philippopolis , Odrysai/Аdrianopolis , Mesembria, Kabyle, Kallatis, Istria, Eion, Druzipara, Dicaea/Dikaia, Dioniysopolis, Biza/Bizantion, Beroe and many others

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krum View Post
    Thracian cities: Seuthopolis, Sosopolis,Thasos, Zesutera, Stryme, Syrakelai, Sestos, Serdica, Selymbria, Sarmizegetusa, Samothrake, Salmydessos, Perperec, Eumolpia/ Philippopolis , Odrysai/Аdrianopolis , Mesembria, Kabyle, Kallatis, Istria, Eion, Druzipara, Dicaea/Dikaia, Dioniysopolis, Biza/Bizantion, Beroe and many others
    Ha? what? sta?????
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krum View Post
    Thracian cities: Seuthopolis, Sosopolis,Thasos, Zesutera, Stryme, Syrakelai, Sestos, Serdica, Selymbria, Sarmizegetusa, Samothrake, Salmydessos, Perperec, Eumolpia/ Philippopolis , Odrysai/Аdrianopolis , Mesembria, Kabyle, Kallatis, Istria, Eion, Druzipara, Dicaea/Dikaia, Dioniysopolis, Biza/Bizantion, Beroe and many others
    Cities in Thracia or Cities found by Thracian?

  4. #29
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    cities created by the Thracians

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krum View Post
    cities created by the Thracians
    Sozopolis Ανθεια Apolloneia Magna Founded by Miletus
    Malgara Μαλγαρα Founded by Makedonians, Alexander himshelf, the name is Persian,probably a Persian military fortification)
    Sestos Σηστος Greek colony of Aeolians of Lesbos Next to a Thracian village
    Selymbria Σηλυμβρια colony founded by Megara
    Mesembria Μεσημβρια Greek colony of Megara,
    Herakleia Greek colony.
    Callatis Καλλατις Gree colony of Heracleia Pontica
    Eion Ηιων are 2 cities, The ancient Thracian of Edones, and the Greek colony of Eretreians,
    Βυζαντιον byzantion was a Greek colony of Megara, same people with Mesembria,



    Kabyle καβυλη is a small village that is founded by Turks, a land possesion of an Emir
    Δικαια Dikaia is rather a modern village, an old Roman necropolis,
    Dionysiopolis Crounoi Κρουνοι was a Thracian settlement, on which Ionian Greek settle and turn it to town of Κρουνοι.

    Ευμολπιας (good smell) Φιλιπουπολις is far ancient place, before nations, the names in Greek, Eumolpias, Phillippoupolis (due to Phillip), Latin Trimontium, modern Plovdiv,
    Stara Zagora territory, Deep Thracian Territory upon where Phillip build an Agora, The Thracian settlements of Beroe, in Maritsa (Ebros) river,
    the name Stara Zagora (old mountains), is incorrectcto me, cause Zagora is not in mountains, (za-gora)
    the city was build by Phillip of Makedonia, and refounded bigger by Traianus.

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    Yetos, these were "founded" on already existing Thracian dwellings and the names show it . Their recorded and so to speak "true history" begins with with the Greeks or Romans and nobody denies that (in many of them ethnic Greeks ruled and lived and forged their destiny for more than two millennia) .

    Zagora (zagore) literally means "beyond the mountains" (in Bulgarians case - from northeners' point of view).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagore

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ownstyler View Post
    The problem Gheg is talking about is very simple:
    In Albanian: noun - adjective (ex: that is a girl pretty)
    In Thracian: adjective - noun (ex: that is a pretty girl)
    Same with modern Italian, right? and Spanish?

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    Polis is not a Thracian word for city, para is. Dacian is dava. Now not all ancient cities in ancient Thrace and Ancient Dacia ended in para or dava but a lot of them did. Here's a list of ancient Thracian and Dacian cities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...race_and_Dacia

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    Quote Originally Posted by td120 View Post
    Yetos, these were "founded" on already existing Thracian dwellings and the names show it . Their recorded and so to speak "true history" begins with with the Greeks or Romans and nobody denies that (in many of them ethnic Greeks ruled and lived and forged their destiny for more than two millennia) .

    Zagora (zagore) literally means "beyond the mountains" (in Bulgarians case - from northeners' point of view).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagore
    Zagore from Goranjie? Za Goranjie -> Zagora

    or from Old IE or Neolithic Zagros Zakros Zagraios

    you are the Slavic etymology to explain term
    while this term might be older
    since Zagora a place I visit a lot of times,is oneofthe most ancient neolithic,

    and B
    at today Stara Zagora, which was in old times as Beroea, Makedonians build an Agora,
    so term Stara Zagora, might mean also Old Agora,
    and No there we have even some of the most ancient Neolithic setllements,
    but first city with all terms is Agora.


    what makes more sense? for Ctara Zagora?
    Old Beyond mountains?
    or
    Old Agora?

    Among Thracian settlements of Beroea later Veroea
    Phillip of Makedon build a fortified Emporium town, an Agora at 342 BC
    so while term Zagora is Slavic, the term Star-Old fits where? old beyond mountains?
    but term Star Agora = Old market town makes sense.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagore
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stara_Zagora

    The territory in orange was ceded to the Bulgarians:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzant...ian_Empire.png

    Zagore (Bulgarian: Загоре, [zəˈɡɔrɛ]); also Zagorie, Zagora, Zagoria) was a vaguely defined medieval region in what is now Bulgaria. Its name is of Slavic origin and means "beyond [i.e. south of] the [Balkan] mountains". The region was first mentioned as Ζαγόρια in Greek (in an Old Bulgarian translation it was rendered as Загорїа) when it was ceded to the First Bulgarian Empire by the Byzantine Empire during the rule of Tervel of Bulgaria in the very beginning of the 8th century (Byzantine–Bulgarian Treaty of 716).

    No need to overcomplicate the matter. In Slavonic and still in most Slavic languages(Eastern and Western) gora(hora);гора=mountain.


    Many other places -not only on the Balkans- has (had) this name. With the same meaning(beyond the hills;beyond the mountains).

    As for the present name of Stara Zagora - it's not very different to what the Ottomans called the town (ESKİZAĞRA (ZaĞra-i atik) اسکی زغره ...or Zağra-i Eski- hisar) Eski(tr.) meaning old(Star-masc. ;stara-fem.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by td120 View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagore
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stara_Zagora

    The territory in orange was ceded to the Bulgarians:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzant...ian_Empire.png

    Zagore (Bulgarian: Загоре, [zəˈɡɔrɛ]); also Zagorie, Zagora, Zagoria) was a vaguely defined medieval region in what is now Bulgaria. Its name is of Slavic origin and means "beyond [i.e. south of] the [Balkan] mountains". The region was first mentioned as Ζαγόρια in Greek (in an Old Bulgarian translation it was rendered as Загорїа) when it was ceded to the First Bulgarian Empire by the Byzantine Empire during the rule of Tervel of Bulgaria in the very beginning of the 8th century (Byzantine–Bulgarian Treaty of 716).

    No need to overcomplicate the matter. In Slavonic and still in most Slavic languages(Eastern and Western) gora(hora);гора=mountain.


    Many other places -not only on the Balkans- has (had) this name. With the same meaning(beyond the hills;beyond the mountains).

    As for the present name of Stara Zagora - it's not very different to what the Ottomans called the town (ESKİZAĞRA (ZaĞra-i atik) اسکی زغره ...or Zağra-i Eski- hisar) Eski(tr.) meaning old(Star-masc. ;stara-fem.)
    yes indeed, but not with term Old infront.

    The term might also been Neolithic,
    even IE notice Zagros mt, which has nothing to do with Slavic Za-gora
    even might mean swamp, pit, dirty water gathering, and Hunting area

    the fact,
    the city was build by Makedonians at 342 BC, in valley and among of Thracian tribal settlements, as fortified emporium town, (town = market place + fort + warehouses) an Agora.

    the hill/mountain Agiasmo there can be good acropolis.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Yetos, "Zağra-i Eski-hisar" means "the old Zagorian Fort" ; "the old fortress in Zagore" . Then with time it got simplified it to Eski-Zağra. Stara Zagora is the same -in Bulgarian.


    Check out the other Zagorje places :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagorje_(disambiguation)


    ...and in Greece too:
    https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%96...8C%CF%81%CE%B9


    Η λέξη Ζαγόρι προέρχεται από την Σλαβική πρόθεση Za που σημαίνει «πίσω» και το ουσιαστικό gora που σημαίνει «βουνό», το οποίο με την σειρά του είναι παραφθορά του ελληνικού όρος. Στην αρχαιότητα η περιοχή ονομάζονταν «Παροραία», και οι κάτοικοί της «Παροραίοι», δηλαδή αυτοί που ζουν πίσω από τα όρη.

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    The ancient name of Stara Zagora is Beroe In the age of 46, Beroe joined the Roman Empire and became part of the province of Thrace. In 106, Emperor Trajan gave the city the right to self-government and re-enacted it to Augusta Trayana.Famous Roman historian Amian Marcellin writes: "The great cities of Philippopolis and Augusta Trayana, which in ancient times were called Evmolliada and Beroe, adorn the province of Thrace." During the period of late antiquity (4th-6th century) the town again bears the name Beroe. The times are related to the relocation of the Empire's capital from Rome to Constantinople, the accelerated Christianization of the local population, the Gothic invasions at the end of the 4th century and the devastating raids of the Huns in the mid- V th. In the 6th century, the city was mentioned as Beroe in a calendar of Goths, dating back to November 19, related to the famous 40 female martyrs. At the end of the century, the city was again destroyed, but then rebuilt and named Vereia. For the first time the Zagore (Zagora) region is mentioned in Georgi Amartol's remarks, repeated by Lion Grammatik, Georgy Kedrin and Simeon Metaphrast, describing the help the Bulgarian army of Tervel renders Emperor Justinian II during his restoration to the Constantinople throne. In 784, Beroe was in possession of the Byzantine Empire, and the Byzantine Empress Irina visited the city with her son Konstantin VI and a large court squad. The Empress recovers the city and calls it Irinopol, the city of Irina. From 812 to the end of the 10th century the city is in Bulgaria The Bulgarians call the town Boruy (a modified form of the Thracian Beroe) During the Crusades, when Friedrich I Barbarossa's troops passed through the Balkans, the Austrian priest Ansbert, who had access to the imperial office, wrote about the city of Vereia as a "big, rich city" that the Crusaders captured, robbed and burned.The earliest Ottoman document, which mentions the city, dates back to 1430 and is now called Eski Hissar. in the first years it is named after Zagor and Attik (Angra Zagra), Zagra and Atik Hisar (Zagra), Zagra, Zagra and Eski Hisar, Zagrali Eskisi (Stara Zagra), Eski Zagora (Ancient Zagora ), Agra Zaharli, Zaharli Eskisi, Eskisi Zagora (Stara Zagora). Later, however, in the seventeenth century, a single form was imposed - Eski Zagra.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    If that's not "tremendous" to you, then you must really be coming from a position where you severely underestimate how much languages (Albanian vs. Pre-Proto-Albanian; English vs. Proto-Germanic) can change in the most unexpected ways in 2,000 years. Anyway, I still think much more research is needed to either confirm or discard the hypotheses about the origins of Albanian. We can't simply dismiss or consider as "long-distance influence" the fact that much of the "Pre-Romance" substrate in Romanian looks suspiciously close to Albanian words, that in a language that supposedly arose in places where Dacian and Thracian tongues were spoken - certainly not in the Illyrian mountains.

    We can't simply assume as a given fact that it came from Illyrian when, especially in the long gone past, the regions where it is spoken (and which were probably even larger before Slavic migrations) were literally neighbored by Dacians and Thracians, whose language we still know little about. Albanian may have changed significantly in relation to its Iron Age parent language, because it certainly did not derive directly from either Illyrian, Dacian or Thracian. It's gone through a very long process of evolution.
    Romanians are a complex bunch. And for what it's worth, they're believed to have migrated to their current location from further south during Middle Ages. Among many other elements pointing toward that fact, their ‘pre-Romance’ substrate that looks similar to Albanian that you pointed out is actually the silver bullet according to some linguists. That they absorbed, in good part, via imposition.

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