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Thread: Beaker phenomenon and the genomic transformation of northwest Europe

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    Beaker phenomenon and the genomic transformation of northwest Europe

    New paper out again, busy days: http://rdcu.be/HxtJ


    From
    around 2750 to 2500 , Bell Beaker pottery became widespread across western and central Europe, before it disappeared between 2200 and 1800 . The forces that propelled its expansion are a matter of long-standing debate, and there is support for both cultural diffusion and migration having a role in this process. Here we present genome-wide data from 400 Neolithic, Copper Age and Bronze Age Europeans, including 226 individuals associated with Beaker-complex artefacts. We detected limited genetic affinity between Beaker-complex-associated individuals from Iberia and central Europe, and thus exclude migration as an important mechanism of spread between these two regions. However, migration had a key role in the further dissemination of the Beaker complex. We document this phenomenon most clearly in Britain, where the spread of the Beaker complex introduced high levels of steppe-related ancestry and was associated with the replacement of approximately 90% of Britain’s gene pool within a few hundred years, continuing the east-to-west expansion that had brought steppe-related ancestry into central and northern Europe over the previous centuries.
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    It's not precisely new, Johane. It's the Olalde et al paper we've been discussing in pre-print.

    I'll see if there are any major differences.

    I do understand that a lot more samples have been released which will be important in terms of uniparental markers and autosomal analysis as well.


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    My bad. The Genomic History of Southeast europe also just came out but I had seen the preprint for it unlike this one.

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    There is a Sicilian Bell Beaker sample

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    There is a Sicilian Bell Beaker sample
    Yes. I think they are three, from Partanna (Trapani). The archaeological site is called "Pergole 2".

    Also the Beaker sample from Parma are three. The archaeological site is called "via Guidorossi".


    La tomba a grotticella artificiale di "Pergole 2", Partanna (TP), Contrada Pergola

    https://www.academia.edu/3650687/La_...ntrada_Pergola


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    2 members found this post helpful.
    PCA:

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    For Iberia they have found 3 R1b more, being L51+, unfortunately they are attached to Ciempozuelos regional style pots so they are not members of the first BB wave. They even have steppe admixture, but as Portguese BA R1b and Catalan R1b BB don't have such admixture it will be necessary to check up if it came by "importation" of CWC females or just by a pan-European exchange network.
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    Eight individuals with stapario component of 25% to 50% in the center of the Iberian Peninsula associated with campaniform, it seems to me that it changes a bit the panorama with which has been said until now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by berun View Post
    For Iberia they have found 3 R1b more, being L51+, unfortunately they are attached to Ciempozuelos regional style pots so they are not members of the first BB wave. They even have steppe admixture, but as Portguese BA R1b and Catalan R1b BB don't have such admixture it will be necessary to check up if it came by "importation" of CWC females or just by a pan-European exchange network.

    @Berun,
    a.Those Portuguese BA R1b -P312 do not have steppe. How would they have diluted Steppe ancestry so fast? - Arriving “steppe” R1bs to Portugal then it would have been (especially south Portugal) by very late last quarter 3rd millennia. – How come 1800bc Portuguese BA R1b-P312 has no Steppe admix?

    b. Today Portugal (special the region of original BB) has the highest R1b percentage that are M269 (xP312) in all Iberia. To find something similar one needs to go to Britany or northern France. What migration of R1b from steppe would arrive to the further western part of Europe (Portugal) with M269 (xp312) when all beakers supposedly “bringing it” are P312?

    c. In a Region (Iberia) noticeable for being dominated by DF27 (TRMC 2400bc) it’s also odd that the son of DF27, Z195 (basically same TRMC as DF27 – so DF27 new is “Son”) is almost non existant in Portugal. – Just to be clear : Spanish people (all) are Z195 (“the son”) but Portuguese R1b are not Z195. At all.

    Something is fishy.

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    Thank you for sharing another special moment. Curiosity rewarded by discovery sounds like a great place to be. I personally appreciate the opportunity to be apart of this journey. I've just returned from a dayand am working hard to stay aware. Yet it's obvious that it's going to be another great day to learn and listen.

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    The sicilian beaker is a bit shifted toward Levant (if i'm not wrong) so can we conclude that he is partly native (ex. chalcolithic sicilian mother) ? Do we know his haplogroups?
    Last edited by Cato; 22-02-18 at 15:10.

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    seen from far it seems that archeologically first BBs (Portugal) passed their knowledge or their package has been adopted by foreign elites of Central Europe origin (at a point at least); so it could confirm some archeologists hypthesis; BTW the "mixed" BB's are in central-northern Spain and southeastern France: hazard? - the more "North-East" position of british BBs is not so strange because we know the first beakers of South-West Britain showed physically an input of the northern element in CWC + an input of a kind of HG's ('borrebylike'), apparently picked in northern Germany (see JC Coon and H. Hubert).
    The question of Y-R1b seems to me confirming a two ways penetration of R1b in Europe westwards, a Mediterranean one and a Danube or/and South Baltic one. But can we be sure we can attach these southern Y-R1b to first BB's pottery???

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    No Olympus, without more evidence I can't side M269 as steppic, there is so much hocus pocus in the paper as to deal with it: 2 in 4 Barcelona beakers are R1b which is a coincidence with the genetic BB trend... the low coverage limits the precission but they have mutations linked to M269, coincidence again... for Portugal, the craddle of BB they only sampled 2 males, incredible after comparing how they have sampled some 6000 British BB, they shut up about the PortugueseBA R1b without steppe, also they shut up about Iberian BA samples for mtDNA without steppe tracks, the R1b in Madrid with steppe got it coming directly from Germany or by importing it like their buttons made of African elephant tusk? moreover, they say M269 is linked to steppe but they don't answer where this combo came out, Germany? Poland? Ukraine? an Iberian culture was taken there by a group R1b till then minoritary to spread such culture and their genomes widely in Europe? my logics are too burnt with it.

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    luckly there is a Portuguese team getting Portuguese BB DNA that will settle up the case

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    The sicilian beaker is a bit shifted toward Levant (if i'm not wrong) so can we conclude that he is partly native (ex. chalcolithic sicilian mother) ? Do we know his haplogroups?
    Cato (it's not me who gave you a 'thumb down') it seems to me this Sicilian BB is shifted towards something Late 'anatolians' (old EF + kind of Iran) rather than towards pure 'levant'; and before those times I think the new (Chalco) mix of Eastern Mediterranean had not reached Sicily in big masses; Could this make a link with Cyprus or rather with South-East Europe of the time?

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    i just wanted to say that maybe is a bit more CHG than the other BB samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Cato (it's not me who gave you a 'thumb down') it seems to me this Sicilian BB is shifted towards something Late 'anatolians' (old EF + kind of Iran) rather than towards pure 'levant'; and before those times I think the new (Chalco) mix of Eastern Mediterranean had not reached Sicily in big masses; Could this make a link with Cyprus or rather with South-East Europe of the time?
    I have this theory that the new Chalco mix of Eastern Mediterranean started to spread from Anatolia with viticulture from the Caucasus to the west in the eastern Med in the late neolithic/chalcolithic. The oldest wine production in Sicily is 6000 years old. I have a hunch that before the search for copper and tin that may have driven Kura Araxes culture to spread was slightly after the actual new Anatolian mix that started to colonise the Aegean before. I think we will find this mixture more in areas that are conducive to wine making and maybe olive production. Then these groups could have taken control of the Med trade routes. Or maybe not. Just a theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auld Reekie View Post
    I have this theory that the new Chalco mix of Eastern Mediterranean started to spread from Anatolia with viticulture from the Caucasus to the west in the eastern Med in the late neolithic/chalcolithic. The oldest wine production in Sicily is 6000 years old. I have a hunch that before the search for copper and tin that may have driven Kura Araxes culture to spread was slightly after the actual new Anatolian mix that started to colonise the Aegean before. I think we will find this mixture more in areas that are conducive to wine making and maybe olive production. Then these groups could have taken control of the Med trade routes. Or maybe not. Just a theory.
    I don't think it was necessarily tied only to wine making and olive oil. I think a big part of it is also tied to the search for metals.

    Definitely, though, I agree with you that this was probably Chalcolithic or Late Neolithic as some call it. I've been saying for years that a lot of this "additional" "Near Eastern" ancestry started entering the European gene pool around that time. The Lazaridis et al Mycenaean paper confirmed it. It also confirmed the components: ANF like, more Iran Neo/Iran Chl. like, and about 5% more "Levantine" like.


    Could they have gone first to the Balkans and/or Cyprus, then on across the Mediterranean sea routes? As the migration of these people spread, their autosomal make-up, depending on the route and the people they encountered, might have changed drastically.

    Does anyone know if we have or if at least the samples from places like Los Millares in Spain are in the works? Those structures are very East Mediterranean in appearance, and the copper metallurgy was really new there. I've often speculated that perhaps the tie was genetic as well as cultural.

    As the migration of these people spread, their autosomal make-up, depending on the route and the people they encountered, might have changed drastically.

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    I agree that metals search could have been the most important factor, and in West Mediterranean it doesn't seem older than say 3000 BC, so 5000 years ago rather than 6000. The wineyards culture could have begun independantly among traditionnal EF med's. I was wondering if some first BB did not pass down Central-Eastern Europe to Southeastern and so Eastern Mediterranea before joining West Mediterranea and South Atlantic...

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    Thank you for helping me putt notions in a process of order at a time when it's core was forged with metals and yet it was still brittle and fragile enough to perish.
    Civilization is more than a collection of isolated factors. Wine and olive live on but establishing a patchwork quilt that define the structures for everyday life.
    Exploration of all that surrounded them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Cato (it's not me who gave you a 'thumb down') it seems to me this Sicilian BB is shifted towards something Late 'anatolians' (old EF + kind of Iran) rather than towards pure 'levant'; and before those times I think the new (Chalco) mix of Eastern Mediterranean had not reached Sicily in big masses; Could this make a link with Cyprus or rather with South-East Europe of the time?
    From what i know Copper Age Sicily was already under "Eastern Meditearranean influences" (Anatolia or Cyprus, probably the same peoples detected by the Kılınç et al. study that replaced EEF there), but also the rest of Italy with the Rinaldone, Gaudo, Laterza culture.

    Btw i have checked the Excel file, there are no Y-DNA for Sicily only mtDNA, i dont know the origin of these maternal lines so i can't say if "my theory" is true (Beaker father - Indigenous mother or grandmother). Another explanation could be that the Beakers acquired the extra CHG in Sardinia (i remember reading a post on the Eurogenes Blog "Sardinia pack a lot of CHG" or something like that), since Sicilian Beaker came from there and not from the peninsula

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    I give up. This forum software pissed me off bad.

    Yay Bell Beaker

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Still need to check Y HG subclades more closely

    Some initial thoughts:

    Origin of BB in Portugal is interesting and suggests maritime trade origin leading to the mature phenomenon.

    This looks to me simply like the first consistent long range trade networks in Europe. This is all we're seeing. I do think that it rests on Horse aided travel and Bronze/copper, which is why it heavily involves steppe cultures.

    Origin of BB in Portugal is hard to buy outright though. BBs are so very similar to Corded Wares, and this really needs to be addressed. Even Eneolithic steppe pottery from the Ukraine looks like Bell Beaker (and corded ware obviously). This combined with the clear correlation with Steppe and R1b-P312 in Central and North West Europe makes it hard not to ascribe some sort of overriding significance.

    I do enjoy critical thinking, but this hatred and denial of a steppe origin of the modern day Y HGs in West Europe is growing tiresome. The evidence supporting a steppe or NE Europe origin from the mesolithic is pretty darn heavy. It's almost like denying that cigarettes cause lung cancer at this point. But you still can, and I can appreciate that.

    We have no R1b-M269 in Iberia immediately preceeding Bell Beaker, then all of a sudden you're loaded with R1b-P312 (among some other clades) in BB graves in Iberia and everywhere else in Europe. Hmm. We did have the M269 in El Trocs, and fine you can stand on that, but C'mon. This is like using the Kura Axes R1b alone to completely deny a steppe lauch point for IE in West Asia.


    Below is an Eneolithic Steppe ware (Sredy Stog). Recall that I've always assigned PIE to latter Sredny Stog layers predating Yamnaya by at least 500 years, which also yield the first sample with a Corded Ware Genotype.



    Below is typical Yamnaya pot



    Below are some Corded Wares



    Below are some Bell Beakers - I realize there is some variation, but the images below capture the range pretty well



    Below are a couple Cardial Pots


    And here are some Iberian Neolithic pots




    Now tell me with a straight face that you believe the BB phenomenon had a single and unique origin in Portugal, and that modern day R1b in West Europe came from Neolithic Iberia.

    It's possible, but highly unlikely at this juncture.
    Last edited by holderlin; 24-02-18 at 18:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by berun View Post
    For Iberia they have found 3 R1b more, being L51+, unfortunately they are attached to Ciempozuelos regional style pots so they are not members of the first BB wave. They even have steppe admixture, but as Portguese BA R1b and Catalan R1b BB don't have such admixture it will be necessary to check up if it came by "importation" of CWC females or just by a pan-European exchange network.
    Dude



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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Mons View Post
    @Berun,
    a.Those Portuguese BA R1b -P312 do not have steppe. How would they have diluted Steppe ancestry so fast? - Arriving “steppe” R1bs to Portugal then it would have been (especially south Portugal) by very late last quarter 3rd millennia. – How come 1800bc Portuguese BA R1b-P312 has no Steppe admix?

    b. Today Portugal (special the region of original BB) has the highest R1b percentage that are M269 (xP312) in all Iberia. To find something similar one needs to go to Britany or northern France. What migration of R1b from steppe would arrive to the further western part of Europe (Portugal) with M269 (xp312) when all beakers supposedly “bringing it” are P312?

    c. In a Region (Iberia) noticeable for being dominated by DF27 (TRMC 2400bc) it’s also odd that the son of DF27, Z195 (basically same TRMC as DF27 – so DF27 new is “Son”) is almost non existant in Portugal. – Just to be clear : Spanish people (all) are Z195 (“the son”) but Portuguese R1b are not Z195. At all.

    Something is fishy.

    a.Those Portuguese BA R1b -P312 do not have steppe. How would they have diluted Steppe ancestry so fast? - Arriving “steppe” R1bs to Portugal then it would have been (especially south Portugal) by very late last quarter 3rd millennia. – How come 1800bc Portuguese BA R1b-P312 has no Steppe admix?

    Well, there's like over 40 generations to reduce it to invisible. Plenty. Look at R1b-M269 in Eastern Canada, unless you actually believe in the Solutrean hypothesis. You had a very similar situation where a bunch of high status (or otherwise powerful) guys showed up with the Hudson Bay Company to trade. Now 300 years layer we have a very high percentage of R1b-M269 in the native American population with little to no Steppe.


    Today Portugal (special the region of original BB) has the highest R1b percentage that are M269 (xP312) in all Iberia. To find something similar one needs to go to Britany or northern France. What migration of R1b from steppe would arrive to the further western part of Europe (Portugal) with M269 (xp312) when all beakers supposedly “bringing it” are P312?


    No one is saying "All Beakers" are bringing anything but beakers.


    In a Region (Iberia) noticeable for being dominated by DF27 (TRMC 2400bc) it’s also odd that the son of DF27, Z195 (basically same TRMC as DF27 – so DF27 new is “Son”) is almost non existant in Portugal. – Just to be clear : Spanish people (all) are Z195 (“the son”) but Portuguese R1b are not Z195. At all.


    So you're trying to say that because men in Iberia, in 2018, are predominately a descendant of DF27, whereas men in Portugal, In 2018 mind you, are predominantly DF27, that this strongly suggests that DF27 originated in Portugal? OK


    Something is fishy


    no

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