Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 45

Thread: Italian election results 2018

  1. #1
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    Italian election results 2018



    Bologna is still "red", and so is half of Toscana. Old habits die hard. Otherwise the north is going center-right.

    [IMG][/IMG]


    I'll be absolutely clear: Imo, the Five Star Party is European socialism run amok. "Guaranteed national income"? You think you've got economic problems now? Just try that. Insanity.

    At the same time, Lega Nord sticks in my craw, even if it's not the Lega Nord of the past.

    Anyway, what it means? from an American perspective:

    "The people have spoken. But what are they saying? There are two main ways to read the results, and both have major consequences for Europe. One—and this is entirely new—is that one of the three pillar countries of the European Union now effectively has a euroskeptical majority in parliament; both Five Star and the League have called for rewriting treaties with Europe to give Italy more sovereignty. (Although it’s a big question whether they would team up to form a government; the election results have produced a hung parliament.) The second is that voters are punishing Italy’s governing elites—Renzi’s Democratic Party, but also Silvio Berlusconi’s Forza Italia party—for overseeing the country’s decline."

    "The results of the vote fundamentally alter Italy’s relationship to the European Union. Five Star and the League haven’t called for an Ital-exit per se, but a loosening of ties that they say have held Italy back. How they’ll accomplish this is anyone’s guess. In a victory speech on Monday, Matteo Salvini, the head of the League—which he transformed from a Northern sovereignist party into a national one by campaigning on a platform of “Italians first”—said he wanted a “different” kind of Europe, one that gives more power to national interests over pan-European commitments. He praised Hungary’s Viktor Orban, who is famous for his authoritarian bent and for advocating what he has called “illiberal” democracy, and who has pushed back against taking in refugees from the Middle East. Salvini also thanked France’s Marine Le Pen for her support and friendship. But he shares some of Le Pen’s contradictions—like her, he is a euroskeptic who has served in the European Parliament; like her, he has said the European Union is a suffocating oppressor, while wanting lots of European Union agricultural subsidies for the farmers that form a key constituency. He’s walked back the idea for a referendum on the euro, now saying that the single currency was a bad idea but it would cost too much to get out of it.But if Five Star becomes a governing party, which they will certainly do, having won the largest vote share with 33 percent, what does that mean for Europe? Lucia Annunziata, the editor of the Huffington Post Italia and a longtime television interview host, told me she didn’t think Europe should be too worried. “I think they will do a lot of wheeling and dealing and hammering the table,” she said. “But certainly they’re not ready to put Ital-exit on the table.”"


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  2. #2
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,335
    Points
    46,102
    Level
    66
    Points: 46,102, Level: 66
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 848
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    the Italian campaign was about big promesses they never can fulfill, from all parties participating
    it seems to me the Italians just don't know what they want exactly
    do they want good government or are they just awaiting a miracle to happen?

    I can understand their frustrations about Europe though
    Europe could be a very strong project, but it has been turned into a very expensive and underperforming system of selfemployment for the overpaid political caste

  3. #3
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    the Italian campaign was about big promesses they never can fulfill, from all parties participating
    it seems to me the Italians just don't know what they want exactly
    do they want good government or are they just awaiting a miracle to happen?

    I can understand their frustrations about Europe though
    Europe could be a very strong project, but it has been turned into a very expensive and underperforming system of selfemployment for the overpaid political caste
    I think the refugee crisis has highlighted other problems as well. There's no organized response at all. Instead, a lot of countries are just trying to shield themselves, and to hell with anyone else. These are precisely the kinds of problems you would count on the Union to handle.

    I've stated my problems with the Euro for Italy before, but this election is just a mess.

    I'm particularly worried that Lega is looking to that Hungarian. I sincerely hope that fascism isn't poised for another rise.

    Like I said, I think the Five Star platform is insanity. I can't believe that most of the south has gone down that road.

  4. #4
    Moderator Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,032
    Points
    23,189
    Level
    46
    Points: 23,189, Level: 46
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 361
    Overall activity: 12.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Bologna is still "red", and so is half of Toscana. Old habits die hard. Otherwise the north is going center-right.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Still red half of Emilia and Toscana, plus the whole German-speaking South Tyrol.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    DuPidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-07-15
    Posts
    445


    Country: Cuba



    this shows the need for a federal Italy. Lega is not completely wrong on Federalizing Italy. They would have had now right government in North and Left in South. EU does not look will be properly functioning as it is. Africa is surpassing 1 billion people and immigration will never stop.

  6. #6
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Still red half of Emilia and Toscana, plus the whole German-speaking South Tyrol.
    Half of Emilia-Romagna and half of Toscana, yes.

    Liguria has flipped. Some things do change. Every single village fete I ever attended in Liguria they'd be singing old partisan and Communist songs.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    2,705
    Points
    28,730
    Level
    52
    Points: 28,730, Level: 52
    Level completed: 8%, Points required for next Level: 1,020
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Italian election results 2018

    IMO a Coalition of Lega and Center Right is going to run the Government, and they’ll assign a few Ministers to M5S.
    M5S doesn’t have enough votes/support to stand alone against the Right, for Now.
    It’s been a vote of Protest against the Center-Left/Right.
    Lega and M5S, don’t have a Clear Ideology, they’re both all over the place.
    I’ve read that some are calling the results of the Election: La Terza Repubblica !
    The Italians outside of Italy Voted the Opposite of the ones of the Mainland.
    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

  8. #8
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,335
    Points
    46,102
    Level
    66
    Points: 46,102, Level: 66
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 848
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think the refugee crisis has highlighted other problems as well. There's no organized response at all. Instead, a lot of countries are just trying to shield themselves, and to hell with anyone else. These are precisely the kinds of problems you would count on the Union to handle.
    I've stated my problems with the Euro for Italy before, but this election is just a mess.
    I'm particularly worried that Lega is looking to that Hungarian. I sincerely hope that fascism isn't poised for another rise.
    Like I said, I think the Five Star platform is insanity. I can't believe that most of the south has gone down that road.
    Italy has itself already fooled by Beppe Grillo on last referendum, lost by Renzi.
    It was about controll of and rules for the banks.
    If the referedum was accepted, and Italian banks would have complied, Europe would have bailed out Italy's bankrupt banks.
    Now the Italian taxpayer has paid for that.
    Are the Italians themselves aware of that?
    Apart from that, I don't know neither understand anything about Italian politics.
    I can only say it looks like a big circus to me.

    As for refugees, Italy at first let the gate wide open, and even gave them a train ticket to France or Germany.
    By that way they attracted more and more of them.
    Untill the French stopped them at the border.
    Same in Greece. They let them all through, untill they were stopped in the Balkans.
    And then Merkel started to play solo-slim.
    We know the result. Total chaos.
    Indeed, there is no structure, each state is looking at his own situation.
    The problem has been ignored for decades. Those who dared to talk about it were marked as racists.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Stuvanè's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Location
    Milan
    Posts
    220
    Points
    10,130
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,130, Level: 30
    Level completed: 30%, Points required for next Level: 420
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1e

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I think that the center-left parties have been severely punished for a bad management of the problem of immigrants from Africa and the Middle East. The situation was hypocritically managed until the immigrants had the opportunity to reach countries economically and socially more evolved than ours: Italy made a good impression to collect the passengers of the boats from Meditarranean sea, but dumped the burden of their maintenance on other countries Europeans. Only a fool would have thought that the fat would have continued. At the moment when our neighbors have - rightly - sealed the borders, the immigrant presence has become visible in a concrete way also from us. But the rule of the left does not change: make yourself beautiful with the means of others, genuine NIMBY mentality developed to the highest degree. So immigrants - of whom we know almost nothing and often create problems of public order - dumped on the outskirts of large cities and small towns. In my part, on the delta of the Po in the Goro area, last year the government's imposition of sending pregnant African girls to the country caused a sensation (in reality it was discovered that other immigrants would have arrived). The local population, made up of fishermen and farmers, organized barricades and violent protests. Everyone accused my countrymen of racism, but none of these solos knew that in places like Goro and Gorino the State only shows itself when it is interested. The first police centers remain several kilometers, not a hospital equipped for childbirth: the nearest is 30-40 km far. The people of those lands are crude, simple, their pedigree is humble. But all this is not synonymous with stupidity: these social engineering experiments leave the time they find and the willing to impose them from above without listening to their counterparts is not at no cost. Now (maybe and late) they understood it. "Quos vult Iupiter perdere, dementat prius."

    Sent from my GT-P5200 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

  10. #10
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Stuvanè View Post
    I think that the center-left parties have been severely punished for a bad management of the problem of immigrants from Africa and the Middle East. The situation was hypocritically managed until the immigrants had the opportunity to reach countries economically and socially more evolved than ours: Italy made a good impression to collect the passengers of the boats from Meditarranean sea, but dumped the burden of their maintenance on other countries Europeans. Only a fool would have thought that the fat would have continued. At the moment when our neighbors have - rightly - sealed the borders, the immigrant presence has become visible in a concrete way also from us. But the rule of the left does not change: make yourself beautiful with the means of others, genuine NIMBY mentality developed to the highest degree. So immigrants - of whom we know almost nothing and often create problems of public order - dumped on the outskirts of large cities and small towns. In my part, on the delta of the Po in the Goro area, last year the government's imposition of sending pregnant African girls to the country caused a sensation (in reality it was discovered that other immigrants would have arrived). The local population, made up of fishermen and farmers, organized barricades and violent protests. Everyone accused my countrymen of racism, but none of these solos knew that in places like Goro and Gorino the State only shows itself when it is interested. The first police centers remain several kilometers, not a hospital equipped for childbirth: the nearest is 30-40 km far. The people of those lands are crude, simple, their pedigree is humble. But all this is not synonymous with stupidity: these social engineering experiments leave the time they find and the willing to impose them from above without listening to their counterparts is not at no cost. Now (maybe and late) they understood it. "Quos vult Iupiter perdere, dementat prius."

    Sent from my GT-P5200 using Eupedia Forum mobile app
    Yet that area still voted heavily for the left.

    As to the general point, I largely agree. However, to be fair, most of these immigrants never wanted to stay in Italy. Many even have family in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    2,705
    Points
    28,730
    Level
    52
    Points: 28,730, Level: 52
    Level completed: 8%, Points required for next Level: 1,020
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Italian election results 2018

    Done.

  12. #12
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    For Entertainment Only ( ENTERTAINMENT ONLY) will be Deletet in 2-3 Hours.
    No conspiracy theorists. Plus, those kinds of things are usually loaded with malware. I'll give you a little while to remove it because if I delete the post it will cost you points.

    OK. I know you're online but you refuse to do it?

  13. #13
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,335
    Points
    46,102
    Level
    66
    Points: 46,102, Level: 66
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 848
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yet that area still voted heavily for the left.
    As to the general point, I largely agree. However, to be fair, most of these immigrants never wanted to stay in Italy. Many even have family in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands.
    it was not on Italy to decide who they would allow entrance to other countries
    I think Stuvané explained that quite well
    if you want a common European approach, you need common procedures and rules
    making a good impression and leaving the burden to others is not the right procedure

    Merkel made the same mistake, playing mother Theresa on her own
    that is why she lost the last elections
    only because they fear even worse results with new elections she ultmiately succeeded in forming a new coalition with SPD last weekend
    but it will be her last term

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,198
    Points
    39,935
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,935, Level: 61
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 415
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Italy's problem is bigger than we can imagine,
    it is not only the refuggee problem,

    it is the same with Greece,
    Greece is 'eating' the flesh that created the last 60 years,
    and although numbers 'seem' to prove,
    true freedom of economy as also self economical improvement is not allowed,
    Greeks brought a party from nonwhere,
    and had a 'referendum' with nobody know the question,
    we lived a political joke for almost half a year
    and we still do,

    Italy is bigger and more industrialized,
    she manage to escape easily the first crush since nobody extra-push her,
    but for people is the same,
    so soon they will live a farsa, a joke,

    people know, and want to bring politicians to fight each other
    so to reveal their inner purpose,

    hope to enjoy the farse they create,
    cause italy needed to 'replenish' the 'blinding light' and the 'mud' of politics

    in my country we started build a new generation,
    they think tottally different. but still stucked at lefts and rights,
    but not demonising politicians

    Italy too,
    after that,
    young will know
    so they will create a new thinking generation,

    since EU and BANKERS rule the countries and the world,
    THEN LET THEM PAY US An INCOME EVERY MONTH FROM THEIR PROFITS.
    Since my future is to search for work, and stay jobless or unemployed
    let the rulers pay my living stantard,

    and on the other hand, I dare, i challenge, I try, I made my effort,
    but always a cheaper refuggee is there to take my job, with less salary or insurance,
    or heavy taxation and loan interest does allow me to improve my income
    since the cheaper the working class, the better the numbers
    so No I will fight them.

    That is for now, the dilemma in European South,
    and in Italy is obvious,

    The old must go home,
    the new 'jokers' express better the feelings of the average Italian,
    AND at the end !!!! Banks and Non Govermental organisation,
    WORK BETTER THAN ANY GOVERMENT!!!

    strange? Nahhh
    either we push goverment to work better
    either goverment must pay us for the tunnel they entered us,


    Gentleman enjoy it,
    either you work, either you don't
    the same you will earn,
    except if you are a nomenclass member,
    as in ex-USSR,
    or a 'golden boy' with no mind and consious
    like in USA

    with one feet to communism
    with the other to neo-laissez faire,
    But only 3-5% will be at the neo Laissez faire,
    all the others will be pushed to 'equality' of low class, or popolo, or proletarius

    DESTRUCTION OF MIDDLE CLASS
    Last edited by Yetos; 07-03-18 at 07:09.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  15. #15
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    it was not on Italy to decide who they would allow entrance to other countries
    I think Stuvané explained that quite well
    if you want a common European approach, you need common procedures and rules
    making a good impression and leaving the burden to others is not the right procedure
    Italy can't and couldn't decide whom other other countries should accept. It didn't and doesn't have that power. On the other hand, while buying them train tickets is wrong to the extent that happened, why should Italy prevent people from going to France, for example, if that's where they choose to go because they have family there, or Sweden if they think they'll get better benefits. Should they detain them by force, intern them indefinitely? If they do, is France going to reimburse Italy? I highly doubt it. Or maybe the Italian navy and merchant marines should just let them drown?

    This is a EUROPEAN problem, not an Italian problem or Greek problem because they're the first in the line of fire. If that's the case then tear up the papers for the European Union right now, because it's a farce. Tear up the monetary system too and bring back national currencies.

    It also seems Stuvane hasn't seen all the thousands of third world people who are clogging Italian cities or even the small villages in rural areas like the Lunigiana.

    His comment about the Italian navy picking up refugees just to "look" good is typical of Italians, always the first to knock their own country. There are lots of Italians very involved in trying to help those people in the camps that have been set up. It's insulting to them to make such a comment.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    2,705
    Points
    28,730
    Level
    52
    Points: 28,730, Level: 52
    Level completed: 8%, Points required for next Level: 1,020
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Italian election results 2018

    I Remember Renzi when he was PM saying that Italy has a Conscience, and that he wanted to be able to sleep at night.
    The mission of the Italian Navy mutated from Refugees Rescue to Uber Taxi of Economic Migrants.
    Italy has allowed itself to be abused.

    A bit of Hypocrisy from my part. Feel Conflicted a bit.
    I was Proud of Italy saving the lives of so many Thousands of People.
    Last edited by Salento; 07-03-18 at 05:17.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    news I have from my cousins..........(and we are all Lega voters since it began )....is, if Renzi resigns and leaves the PD then 5star will get in bed with PD with di Maio as premier.......but Renzi is only leaving once a new government is formed, thats the dilemma .

    I cannot see a centre-right governing unless a minor party joins it, but they are handicapped by berlosconi

    all parties except 5star and lega have governed and they have always failed, time now for a change, a wake up call to italians .

    a US TV program stated yesterday, that Italy has the highest amount of people over the age of 60 in the world and needs their youth back to work.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    2,705
    Points
    28,730
    Level
    52
    Points: 28,730, Level: 52
    Level completed: 8%, Points required for next Level: 1,020
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    Italian election results 2018

    The Lega Nord (Original Name: Lega Nord per l'Indipendenza della Padania) until recently has called all Italians from Rome to Sicily all the Insults in the Italian Language.
    Now they Pretend that they’ve changed. I don’t think so.
    We don’t Forget

  19. #19
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Southern Italians and Sicilians shouldn't forget, but that doesn't mean they should vote for an idiotic platform.

    I'm just disappointed that the majority in Liguria and Parma and largely the Lunigiana too have drunk the Kool-Aid, even if it's a different Kool-Aid, people I know among them. Of course, their parents and grandparents often supported fascists too. Even politics sometimes runs in families. It's like a time loop.

  20. #20
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,218
    Points
    11,238
    Level
    31
    Points: 11,238, Level: 31
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 12
    Overall activity: 11.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Why would anyone want fascism? I'm not a political science guy so forgive me if I'm wrong but why would
    you want to spend every waking moment being kicked around by some power freak shouting orders? Being told not to live freely and happily?
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

  21. #21
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,335
    Points
    46,102
    Level
    66
    Points: 46,102, Level: 66
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 848
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It didn't and doesn't have that power. On the other hand, while buying them train tickets is wrong to the extent that happened, why should Italy prevent people from going to France, for example, if that's where they choose to go because they have family there, or Sweden if they think they'll get better benefits. Should they detain them by force, intern them indefinitely? If they do, is France going to reimburse Italy? I highly doubt it. Or maybe the Italian navy and merchant marines should just let them drown?
    the EU has open internal borders, and the Schengen countries even more so
    but there should be controll on the outer borders
    that is part of the Schengen agreement
    what Italy did was undermining this system
    and they stimulated the bussiness of human trafficking
    that they all have family in some northern European country is a made up story
    all those immigrants have a story, but most of these appear to be made up
    the northern countries took up many more immigrants than Italy
    it's only when Italy couldn't send them through to the north any more that it started to be an issue in Italy too
    as far as I understand it was a major issue during last elections

  22. #22
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    275
    Points
    1,831
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,831, Level: 11
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 19
    Overall activity: 11.0%


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    a US TV program stated yesterday, that Italy has the highest amount of people over the age of 60 in the world and needs their youth back to work.
    and how is it going to do this? there are so many italians who emigrated. and they wont come back. one could actually assume that italians have a bit more empathy with immigrants since they are a people of economic emigration themselves. though i understand that a country that cant keep its own population inside can't care for these immigrants. but maybe you will have to take your youth from them.

  23. #23
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Why would anyone want fascism? I'm not a political science guy so forgive me if I'm wrong but why would
    you want to spend every waking moment being kicked around by some power freak shouting orders? Being told not to live freely and happily?
    For decades of the first half of the twentieth century most of Europe lived under totalitarian systems of either the left or the right: Russia, Hungary, to some extent Poland, Italy, Spain, Germany. England had a nascent fascist party of its own, and there were many fascist sympathizers in France. After World War II, Russia expanded her system (although by force it has to be said), and we have Tito in the Balkans and Ceaucescu in Romania. Spain didn't get rid of Franco for decades. I just saw a recent poll that most Russians wish they could bring back the Soviet Union, and even so, in what's left of it, there's no western style democracy as we would understand it. That's just Europe.

    This was by no means always imposed on people. Russia and Spain became totalitarian countries as the result of civil wars, but Germany elected Hitler.

    A surprising number of people are willing to give up freedom of speech and press, sometimes freedom of religion, willing to live in a system where the state, controlled by an oligarchy of some sort, can in some systems tell you where to live, where to work and on and on, if they think they'll be economically better off and if you appeal to their nationalistic fantasies.

    Sad, but true.

  24. #24
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,218
    Points
    11,238
    Level
    31
    Points: 11,238, Level: 31
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 12
    Overall activity: 11.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Thank you Angela! I don't get why people would want that.

    Lol I got "Sad But True" from Metallica stuck in my head now

  25. #25
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    the EU has open internal borders, and the Schengen countries even more so
    but there should be controll on the outer borders
    that is part of the Schengen agreement
    what Italy did was undermining this system
    and they stimulated the bussiness of human trafficking
    that they all have family in some northern European country is a made up story
    all those immigrants have a story, but most of these appear to be made up
    the northern countries took up many more immigrants than Italy
    it's only when Italy couldn't send them through to the north any more that it started to be an issue in Italy too
    as far as I understand it was a major issue during last elections
    This is another one where I don't think we'll ever agree, Bicicleur.

    If the EU and particularly the Schengen countries mean open internal borders, then there should be no problem with these migrants moving to other countries. If someone doesn't pay the train fare, I'm sure they would walk.

    No, not all the migrants had family in France, or Belgium or the Netherlands, but the ones who don't would have to be mentally deficient not to realize that in a country with high unemployment of its own and very paltry "benefits" by northern European standards, they'd do better elsewhere.

    What you're basically proposing is that the countries on the front line because of geography, like Italy and Greece, should shoulder the entire burden of these people. The only option that would leave to Italy would be to let them all drown, as I said above. That isn't really an option for any civilized country.

    This is the solution of the European Union? Is the Union only meant to benefit Northern Europe and to hell with Southern Europe? This is precisely the kind of problem that the Union should solve, but certain countries just want to use it to their benefit, with no costs whatsoever. Most European countries always want someone else to deal with their problems. Look at the Balkan mess. They should have handled that: it's their continent. Did they? No.

    Given that's the case, and it's really, under the phony verbiage, each country for itself, then tear up the documents, as I've advocated for a long time, and make sure we drop the Euro too. Let national currencies fall to their own levels. We'll see how countries like Germany like it when suddenly our goods are cheaper.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •