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Thread: Which countries are considered Eastern European?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Nobody brought up the Hajnal line? St. Petersburg to Trieste, guys.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
    You do realize that Latvia and Estonia are West of the Hajnal line, right? Apart from the Catholic Latgale region, which I don't mind calling Eastern European.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You're the one who said that the Nazis distinguished between Slavs, whom we know were all to be exterminated, and Latvians/Estonians, who were capable of being "Germanized", and so clearly were not untermenschen.
    The clear implication was that the Germans were just recognizing an obvious difference. In addition to Protestantism, the obvious difference was, what? Genetic? Racial?
    Regardless, Eastern European for you clearly means Slavic, and equally clearly you find having your country grouped with them extremely troublesome, perhaps insulting. Is that right? Or are we getting the wrong impression?
    If my reference to Latvian guards in Nazi extermination camps is what made you lose your temper, I'm afraid facts are facts. It happened. Don't shoot the messenger. It happened in my country too, if to a lesser extent. At least we don't hold parades to honor these people, however.
    http://www.holocaustresearchproject....z/lativia.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Legion
    Oh, you may have missed some of our threads dealing with religion and the Nazis. Protestants were much more likely to vote for Hitler than Catholics. Put that in your hat and smoke it.
    Just generally, I'm trying to be more tolerant, so I didn't give you an infraction. If you continue with these over the line insults, however, there will be consequences.
    You're not being rational.

    I can discuss Nazi racial policies and challenge the view that everyone was about to be mass murdered without being associated with the ideology. Do you not agree?

    My entire point was that the Nazis and the Soviets had the same plans in mind for us. Complete assimilation, deportations and the settlement of Russians/Germans in our lands.

    How exactly does that make you believe I somehow subscribe to that hogwash? You seem to have forgot the original point markod made.

    "I must be thankful to the Russians for trying to wipe us out." This is the statement that started it all. It would be a borderline hate speech offence here.

    After that statement was made, I went on to explain why it makes no sense on two levels:
    a) the Nazis were not going to exterminate us,
    b) the Soviets did try to wipe us out culturally, just like the Nazis would.

    I can put it into very simple, vulgar even, terms. Maybe this will help some people understand my point. Somehow I'm a Nazi, because I'm not thankful a rapist beat up another rapist. Both were trying to rape me. I'm definitely a Nazi, because I'm explaining that one of them wasn't a murderer, but a rapist. What you're saying is "oh, I bet you loved being raped by that one guy". No. I didn't. Do you not realize how offensive that is?

    Eastern European means Eastern Orthodox. When I think of Eastern Europe, I think of Byzantium. I think of the Hajnal line. I think of East Slavs. I don't consider Czechs or, say, Croatians to be Eastern European. That label makes little sense. I think of late industrialization, I think of late urbanization, I think of high illiteracy rates in the 20th century. I think of illiterate slave-like serfs living off the land and then being herded into living in cities and being taught how to read. I think of track suits and alcoholism, I think of Soviet-styled apartment blocs. I think of spitting on the streets, golden teeth and babushkas. I think of a highly ostentatious sense of style. Of bright, shiny things and gold. Of bright red and bright green and light blue being used at the same time. I think of corruption, authoritarianism and officials riding in fancy SUVs, while others sputter around in Ladas. I think of a very parochial, sexist society. I think of domestic violence. I think of gays being beat up in public. I think of censorship. I think of general poverty. I think of women dressing like prostitutes.

    I don't think they're inferior in any way, but I do believe they have been extremely unlucky in the way the dice has rolled for them. The way history has played out. It has a lot to do with the vast territory, lack of exchange of ideas throughout the last few hundred years, lack of trade, lack of investment and the fact that backwards authoritarianism has helped to keep it all together. But, unfortunately, it is what defines it as a political/cultural region of Europe.

    If it was up to me, I wouldn't use this term at all. And, yes, Angela, it is offensive to be labeled 'Eastern European' in such a context. I would be slightly upset if I was called a Southern European as well, but the label 'Eastern Europe' contains a lot more layers to it than geography alone, which makes it especially insulting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50cal View Post
    You're not being rational.

    I can discuss Nazi racial policies and challenge the view that everyone was about to be mass murdered without being associated with the ideology. Do you not agree?

    My entire point was that the Nazis and the Soviets had the same plans in mind for us. Complete assimilation, deportations and the settlement of Russians/Germans in our lands.

    How exactly does that make you believe I somehow subscribe to that hogwash? You seem to have forgot the original point markod made.

    "I must be thankful to the Russians for trying to wipe us out." This is the statement that started it all. It would be a borderline hate speech offence here.

    After that statement was made, I went on to explain why it makes no sense on two levels:
    a) the Nazis were not going to exterminate us,
    b) the Soviets did try to wipe us out culturally, just like the Nazis would.

    I can put it into very simple, vulgar even, terms. Maybe this will help some people understand my point. Somehow I'm a Nazi, because I'm not thankful a rapist beat up another rapist. Both were trying to rape me. I'm definitely a Nazi, because I'm explaining that one of them wasn't a murderer, but a rapist. What you're saying is "oh, I bet you loved being raped by that one guy". No. I didn't. Do you not realize how offensive that is?

    Eastern European means Eastern Orthodox. When I think of Eastern Europe, I think of Byzantium. I think of the Hajnal line. I think of East Slavs. I don't consider Czechs or, say, Croatians to be Eastern European. That label makes little sense. I think of late industrialization, I think of late urbanization, I think of high illiteracy rates in the 20th century. I think of illiterate slave-like serfs living off the land and then being herded into living in cities and being taught how to read. I think of track suits and alcoholism, I think of Soviet-styled apartment blocs. I think of spitting on the streets, golden teeth and babushkas. I think of a highly ostentatious sense of style. Of bright, shiny things and gold. Of bright red and bright green and light blue being used at the same time. I think of corruption, authoritarianism and officials riding in fancy SUVs, while others sputter around in Ladas. I think of a very parochial, sexist society. I think of domestic violence. I think of gays being beat up in public. I think of censorship. I think of general poverty. I think of women dressing like prostitutes.

    I don't think they're inferior in any way, but I do believe they have been extremely unlucky in the way the dice has rolled for them. The way history has played out. It has a lot to do with the vast territory, lack of exchange of ideas throughout the last few hundred years, lack of trade, lack of investment and the fact that backwards authoritarianism has helped to keep it all together. But, unfortunately, it is what defines it as a political/cultural region of Europe.

    If it was up to me, I wouldn't use this term at all. And, yes, Angela, it is offensive to be labeled 'Eastern European' in such a context. I would be slightly upset if I was called a Southern European as well, but the label 'Eastern Europe' contains a lot more layers to it than geography alone, which makes it especially insulting.
    The problem is you're wrong, and you haven't managed to cite a single piece of evidence for your assertions. If you think an ominous report bei Leibbrandt, who was laid off and replaced by one of Himmler's SS men, changed anything about Generalplan Ost you are absolutely delusional. Rosenberg himself was suspected of sympathizing with easterners due to his background, and he had absolutely zero reach. His plans to grant a state to Ukrainians were completely ignored, as was his proposed repatration of Jews in Madagascar or Guyana.

    Himmler and Hitler were 100% aligned when it came to the treatment of eastern populations. Himmler and his SS were going to get rid of everyone in the Baltics, and assimilation was never on the table.

    Oh and you might not realize it, but all those awful stereotypes might as well apply to your country in many peoples minds. Many indubitably Eastern European countries are better developed than Latvia: Poland, Slovenia, the Czech republic. Everyone considers those countries Eastern European. Latvia's PPP is only barely higher than Russia's, and the former has been an EU member for a while. As for your hatred of Russia, I'd like to remind you of the many achievements in literature, science and the arts that came from this country.These should be enough to call your laughable prejudices into question.

    Your citations earlier in the thread only lead back to your reddit account, where you made exactly the same kind of posts (word for word, it seems you just copypasted some of them) which weren't received well. After 3 years you might just want to accept that Latvia is in Eastern Europe and that the Nazis didn't like you.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by 50cal View Post
    You're not being rational.
    I can discuss Nazi racial policies and challenge the view that everyone was about to be mass murdered without being associated with the ideology. Do you not agree?
    My entire point was that the Nazis and the Soviets had the same plans in mind for us. Complete assimilation, deportations and the settlement of Russians/Germans in our lands.
    How exactly does that make you believe I somehow subscribe to that hogwash? You seem to have forgot the original point markod made.
    "I must be thankful to the Russians for trying to wipe us out." This is the statement that started it all. It would be a borderline hate speech offence here.
    After that statement was made, I went on to explain why it makes no sense on two levels:
    a) the Nazis were not going to exterminate us,
    b) the Soviets did try to wipe us out culturally, just like the Nazis would.
    I can put it into very simple, vulgar even, terms. Maybe this will help some people understand my point. Somehow I'm a Nazi, because I'm not thankful a rapist beat up another rapist. Both were trying to rape me. I'm definitely a Nazi, because I'm explaining that one of them wasn't a murderer, but a rapist. What you're saying is "oh, I bet you loved being raped by that one guy". No. I didn't. Do you not realize how offensive that is?
    Eastern European means Eastern Orthodox. When I think of Eastern Europe, I think of Byzantium. I think of the Hajnal line. I think of East Slavs. I don't consider Czechs or, say, Croatians to be Eastern European. That label makes little sense. I think of late industrialization, I think of late urbanization, I think of high illiteracy rates in the 20th century. I think of illiterate slave-like serfs living off the land and then being herded into living in cities and being taught how to read. I think of track suits and alcoholism, I think of Soviet-styled apartment blocs. I think of spitting on the streets, golden teeth and babushkas. I think of a highly ostentatious sense of style. Of bright, shiny things and gold. Of bright red and bright green and light blue being used at the same time. I think of corruption, authoritarianism and officials riding in fancy SUVs, while others sputter around in Ladas. I think of a very parochial, sexist society. I think of domestic violence. I think of gays being beat up in public. I think of censorship. I think of general poverty. I think of women dressing like prostitutes.
    I don't think they're inferior in any way, but I do believe they have been extremely unlucky in the way the dice has rolled for them. The way history has played out. It has a lot to do with the vast territory, lack of exchange of ideas throughout the last few hundred years, lack of trade, lack of investment and the fact that backwards authoritarianism has helped to keep it all together. But, unfortunately, it is what defines it as a political/cultural region of Europe.
    If it was up to me, I wouldn't use this term at all. And, yes, Angela, it is offensive to be labeled 'Eastern European' in such a context. I would be slightly upset if I was called a Southern European as well, but the label 'Eastern Europe' contains a lot more layers to it than geography alone, which makes it especially insulting.
    You probably don't see it, but you've proved my point. Your hysteria over this possible labeling of your country by a quasi "geographical" term is because of your hateful attitudes toward Slavic people. You consider them "lower", less evolved than your people, and presumably Germans etc, and that is why you're so incensed that anyone would associate your country with them. I'm sure Hitler and Himmler would have completely agreed with you. The only thing you don't do is publicly ascribe it to "race".

    Not good enough.

    I don't debate people with such hateful viewpoints.

    As to one of your main, what, supporting points, that the Nazis considered you worthy of assimilation, sorry for the disappointment, but you haven't proved it. All you're doing is culling incorrect information from racist Latvian sites written by people who desperately don't want to believe that their beloved Nazis didn't consider them "ubermensch". Pathetic.

    I know very well what the hajnal line means and which countries are and are not in it. Why else would I bring it up? I was trying to be objective. That's lost on people like you. Nor, fwiw, do I completely "buy" it, but that's for another discussion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 50cal View Post
    Deary me, I guess you're not being taught history in Albania.
    The part about million bodies wasn't hyperbole. If you're willing to challenge that point further, I'll give you a fair chance and let you do some research of your own first before schooling you.
    Of course we learn history in Albanian schools but to be honest the history of Latvia is not studied as a separate branch. Maybe is wrong but, never heard of any Latvian civilization or Empire. You are free to share some knowledge here and in this way to promote your country.
    Also:
    a) you should probably educate yourself on how proportional election systems work — having the most votes doesn't mean you won,
    I have some knowledge about proportional and majority voting systems. Here we have a mix, a very complex system.
    b) granting people voting rights is the right thing to do.
    The rights of the minorities are granted in our Constitution.
    As for being careful, we don't have any reason to be careful. I am prepared, though, if you're wondering. I'm keeping my assault rifle and sidegun at home, just like a good deal of my friends are. If need be, we're going to add another million bodies to our lovely soil. It makes it more fertile.
    From what i have been able to read here in this thread, during the twentieth century you have been threatened with being extirpated on one hand by the Germans and on the other side by the Russian genocide as you personally admitted and which is seen from the results of the elections.
    However, i hope that one day i will have the possibility to visit your beautiful country as a tourist and not obliged by article 5 of NATO, because on that occasion, this map of yours would be ..... a funny game.
    I also have a curiosity, why in your map Montenegro is in the Western part of Europe?
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    Looking on the map, the geometrical map center of gravity of Europe seems to be between north Romania, south-east Poland and western Ukraine. So Romania, Poland, W Ukraine, Slovakia, Hungary seem to be physically no way east, but the center of Europe.

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    According to tripsavvy.com/countries-of-eastern-europe-explored-1501460 Eastern European countries are:

    • Russia
    • Czech Republic
    • Poland
    • Croatia
    • Slovakia
    • Hungary
    • Romania and Moldova
    • Serbia
    • Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia
    • Slovenia
    • Bulgaria
    • Ukraine and Belarus
    • Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina
    • Albania, Kosovo, and Macedonia

    But according to Wikipedia all countries on Balkan peninsula as well as Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia are also Eastern European countries. I guess because geographical Europe sweeps from the Iberian peninsula to the Ural Mountains

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Of course we learn history in Albanian schools but to be honest the history of Latvia is not studied as a separate branch. Maybe is wrong but, never heard of any Latvian civilization or Empire. You are free to share some knowledge here and in this way to promote your country.

    I have some knowledge about proportional and majority voting systems. Here we have a mix, a very complex system.

    The rights of the minorities are granted in our Constitution.

    From what i have been able to read here in this thread, during the twentieth century you have been threatened with being extirpated on one hand by the Germans and on the other side by the Russian genocide as you personally admitted and which is seen from the results of the elections.
    However, i hope that one day i will have the possibility to visit your beautiful country as a tourist and not obliged by article 5 of NATO, because on that occasion, this map of yours would be ..... a funny game.
    I also have a curiosity, why in your map Montenegro is in the Western part of Europe?
    countries with orthodox Christianity are close to Islam. So Only Catholic countries are considered western with the exception of Hungary, Finland, Estonia who are not genetically European.
    I have heard when Mohamed created Islam in 7 century ad, Christianity of Greeks served as a model, so again Orthodox countries are closer to islam

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Topic has been turned to one of crazy Balkan Topics

    Check United Nations Geoscheme

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    3 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    Half the threads on this site are ruined by Balkan ignorance and hyper-Nationalism. Amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooogra View Post
    According to tripsavvy.com/countries-of-eastern-europe-explored-1501460 Eastern European countries are:

    • Russia
    • Czech Republic
    • Poland
    • Croatia
    • Slovakia
    • Hungary
    • Romania and Moldova
    • Serbia
    • Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia
    • Slovenia
    • Bulgaria
    • Ukraine and Belarus
    • Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina
    • Albania, Kosovo, and Macedonia

    But according to Wikipedia all countries on Balkan peninsula as well as Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia are also Eastern European countries. I guess because geographical Europe sweeps from the Iberian peninsula to the Ural Mountains
    I think, they should learn a little geography first. :) Then they will understand better.

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    1 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    By all means keep down-voting my posts, "Laberia", and "Gidai", and sundry others for other posts. With your reputation scores it turns out you give me points when you do it, if it mattered to me, which it doesn't. :) Now, if it were from people who aren't a byword for idiocy and everything that's wrong with the Balkans, it would be a different story.

    I guess the truth hurts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    By all means keep down-voting my posts, "Laberia", and "Gidai", and sundry others for other posts. With your reputation scores it turns out you give me points when you do it, if it mattered to me, which it doesn't. :) Now, if it were from people who aren't a byword for idiocy and everything that's wrong with the Balkans, it would be a different story.

    I guess the truth hurts.
    So... ;) You still deserve other after this post. I give it to you negatively. Is there a problem?

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    If they gave out rewards for stupidity...

    This thread is closed. Too many complaints.

    If members have complaints about other threads ruined by Balkan members please pm me.

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