Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 162

Thread: Turks are Anatolians under the hood?

  1. #76
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,381
    Points
    38,396
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,396, Level: 60
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 654
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    That does make a lot of sense. Looked at in this way, the "Ottoman Turk" gene flow is higher than looking just at Han or Siberian would indicate, so, indeed, more than 10%.
    I agree - BTW the same sort of reasoning could apply to late moves of IEans in Southern parts of Europe (maliciously I think to the so debated Mycenian question) and to gradual transmission of languages

  2. #77
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,725
    Points
    26,601
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,601, Level: 50
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 949
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I agree - BTW the same sort of reasoning could apply to late moves of IEans in Southern parts of Europe (maliciously I think to the so debated Mycenian question) and to gradual transmission of languages
    Absolutely. Turkic impact must've been around 25-30%, the East Asian component is just the most distinctive, alien marker that allows us to clearly identify the arrival of Turkic peoples in a region that was something like 99.9% West Eurasian before. In the same way, especially in heavily populated regions further away from the core geographic and ecological zone of Indo-European tribes, I think we can safely bet that the REAL demographic impact of their migrations was at least 2x or even 3x as much as the post-immigration proportion of Steppe_EMBA or Steppe_MLBA would indicate, because the rest of their admixtures would've been too close to those that characterized the peoples they conquered. In the case of Mycenaeans, for example, a ~10-15% steppe in ancient Greeks would probably have meant a ~25-35% actual genetic impact, at least if they had lived for many generations (I think that's the most likely hypothesis) in the Balkans, and didn't just pass through it directly from the steppes (and by that time, transitioning between LPIE and Proto-Greek, even the - western, especially - steppe would've received much more EEF than centuries earlier).

  3. #78
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Absolutely. Turkic impact must've been around 25-30%.
    No way, I don't see it in numbers. 10-15% the most, if original Turkic tribe had similar admixture characteristic to Mongolians.
    Mycenaeans, for example, a ~10-15% steppe in ancient Greeks would probably have meant a ~25-35% actual genetic impact, at least
    Again, the numbers point to 10-15%. If you go with 30, that would mean that about 15% of invaders never mixed in and died off or moved out. To my understanding, as soon as the new combined trieb starts speaking the same language, cultural barriers are gone, everybody feels like member of the same tribe and equal, and they all mix together without hesitation. This way, all the invaders are mixed into locals.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  4. #79
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,725
    Points
    26,601
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,601, Level: 50
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 949
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    No way, I don't see it in numbers. 10-15% the most, if original Turkic tribe had similar admixture characteristic to Mongolians.
    Again, the numbers point to 10-15%. If you go with 30, that would mean that about 15% of invaders never mixed in and died off or moved out. To my understanding, as soon as the new combined trieb starts speaking the same language, cultural barriers are gone, everybody feels like member of the same tribe and equal, and they all mix together without hesitation. This way, all the invaders are mixed into locals.
    That's not necessary, they - the Turkic-speaking immigrants - just had to be much less Northest Asian than you think for that. I'm talking about the demographic impact of a migration, not about the intensity of its genetic imprint, bringing alien elements to the local genetic pool. I think that 25% to 30% is more plausible because the bulk of the Turkic migration to Anatolia happened after the 11th century and came not from the northern steppes nor even less so from anywhere near Siberia, but from present Turkmenistan/Uzbekistan, and the Turks had already started to expand extensively in that southern part of Central Asia for at least 500 years before they came in droves to Anatolia.

    Besides, the Turks themselves that had expanded southward to Turkmenistan/Uzbekistan had already established important khanates and tribal confederacies in the Eurasian Steppe around modern Kazakhstan, where they definitely mixed with local Europoid tribes and thus arrived the Turan region with their East Asian-like ancestry already a bit diluted. So, in my opinion, the Turks that invaded Anatolia were already much more "West Eurasian" than the Turks that first invaded the Pontic-Caspian steppe and Central Asia centuries earlier. They had dozens of generations for that.

    So, my position, at least until contrary proofs are presented (I have no strong personal interest in maintaining this opinion of mine), is that if Siberian+East Asian admixture in contemporary Turks account for ~10-15% of their genetic makeup, that must mean a demographic impact from the Turkic migrations between 20% and 30%.

    That, of course, means that I assume that those Turks were in fact "just" ~50% East/Northeast Asian(more or less like modern Uyghurs and Uzbeks), a mixture of Turks with the former Iranic peoples of Central Asia, and of course many of them came not just sraight from Central Asia, but actually from heavily Iranian (in the Middle Ages) Northern Iran & Azerbaijan, further mixing with West Eurasians there.

  5. #80
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Tutkun Arnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-03-18
    Posts
    296

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a(m223)(L801)

    Country: Albania



    Someone I know, speaking for a certain TV station as an expert on Turkey, was arguing that Turks themselves do not see each other as equal. He was saying that Anatolian Turks, or dark skinned Turks to use his words, see themselves as legitimate Turks. And then there are white Turks, with Balkan and other European Turks, who are the political and business elite are seen as intruders by Anatolian's. Turks have known this divide and for long have suppressed anyone who has tried to bring into open the division reality. He was saying that division runs deep and I was surprised to hear that. The white population of Turkey is quite large. According to some estimates Albanian population of Turkey surpasses 6 million (at least one parent). But the largest number should be Turkified Greeks and Armenians. Also Bosniak's, Serbs, Georgians, reside in large numbers. The person I am referring to had studied Theology so I don't know how accurate his data are. I don't quite get the purpose of this thread but Present day Turkey is ethnically quite complicated. It has been part of Ancient Greece, Rome, Ottomans and is at the crossroads of all hominids movements.

  6. #81
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    That's not necessary, they - the Turkic-speaking immigrants - just had to be much less Northest Asian than you think for that. I'm talking about the demographic impact of a migration, not about the intensity of its genetic imprint, bringing alien elements to the local genetic pool. I think that 25% to 30% is more plausible because the bulk of the Turkic migration to Anatolia happened after the 11th century and came not from the northern steppes nor even less so from anywhere near Siberia, but from present Turkmenistan/Uzbekistan, and the Turks had already started to expand extensively in that southern part of Central Asia for at least 500 years before they came in droves to Anatolia.
    Keeping in mind that Anatolia was rather populous country compared to steppe/mountainous region like Turkmenistan or Uzbekistan, it would require movement of all the inhabitants of this region to mix in proportions you suggest. It makes it very unlikely. Uzbekistan and farther to the center of Asia, numerous invasion would drastically lower Caucasian admixture in Turkey. So the direct invasion of Central Asiatic Turkish tribes in 30% proportion did not happen. Max is 15% by the numbers. Turkmenistan population is actually similar to Turkey, and it looks like they were the victim of the same conquering force. This more likely than being invaders themselves. Again, looking at massive 50% of caucasian admixture in Turkey, makes them overwhelmingly inhabitants of this caucasian/sub caucasian region almost forever.
    The only huge replacement of population, from the available samples, I can see, was from late Neolithic to Bronze Age, when Anatolian Neolithic Farmer was replaced by BA Armenian Farmer. Possibly caused by expansion of IEs. Steppe admixture is growing in Armenia and Northern Anatolia at same time.

    Besides, the Turks themselves that had expanded southward to Turkmenistan/Uzbekistan had already established important khanates and tribal confederacies in the Eurasian Steppe around modern Kazakhstan, where they definitely mixed with local Europoid tribes and thus arrived the Turan region with their East Asian-like ancestry already a bit diluted. So, in my opinion, the Turks that invaded Anatolia were already much more "West Eurasian" than the Turks that first invaded the Pontic-Caspian steppe and Central Asia centuries earlier. They had dozens of generations for that.
    It might look like it, but it wasn't. Again, when I look at admixture numbers, it would take almost all Turkmenistan to replace contemporary Anatolians to get to modern Turkey numbers. It is hugely unlikely.

    So, my position, at least until contrary proofs are presented (I have no strong personal interest in maintaining this opinion of mine), is that if Siberian+East Asian admixture in contemporary Turks account for ~10-15% of their genetic makeup, that must mean a demographic impact from the Turkic migrations between 20% and 30%.
    I really think, the invasion was more direct from Central Asia. I have seen pictures of people from some secluded villages in Turkey, and people looked Central Asiatic/Mongolian.

    Having said that there is quite a bit speculation on my part, though I'm trying to stay true to numbers. Getting our hands on IA samples from Anatolia, and the ones before Turkish invasion would answer few questions.
    Peace out.

  7. #82
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,725
    Points
    26,601
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,601, Level: 50
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 949
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Keeping in mind that Anatolia was rather populous country compared to steppe/mountainous region like Turkmenistan or Uzbekistan, it would require movement of all the inhabitants of this region to mix in proportions you suggest.
    Not if they were originally significantly less than 20-30% (my medium estimate is 25%), but they had a demographic advantage (in terms of reproduction and rate of surviving children) over the natives for several generations during the Middle Ages and early Modern Era, which is quite likely considering they became the conquerors and the members of the new political and military elite. Also, there are at least a few evidences that Anatolia suffered some local demographic catastrophes during the later Middle Ages, with partial depopulation of some regions, so that some parts of Anatoli could've been impacted by the waves of immigration right when they were at a nadir of their native population. If, as I think is quite plausible, the Turks, especially elite Turks, left more offspring than others, their demographic impact could easily reach some 25% even if the number of immigrants as a percentage of the local Anatolian population was originally much inferior to 25%, say around 15%. They didn't need to have defined their final demographic impact in the makeup of Anatolia right when they came from Central Asia.

    Anyway, I do agree with you that for now we are just speculating, although we could say that these are well informed guesses. I hope we will have Late Antiquity and Medieval samples from Anatolia soon, then it will easier to answer this question. There is, however, a certain overlapping of at least the West Asian and some of the Caucasian admixture between Anatolia and southern Central Asia, but there must be a way to distinguish one and the other since they must've had some noticeable drift in the last thousands of years. I look forward to the day when this controversy will be finally settled out, except for the fringe deniers, of course.

  8. #83
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    12-03-18
    Posts
    119
    Points
    1,697
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,697, Level: 11
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 153
    Overall activity: 11.0%


    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Dienekes calculated the Turkic admixture at 14%. I don't believe the impact can be as high as 30%. Turks would look too different in that case.

  9. #84
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Cpluskx View Post
    Dienekes calculated the Turkic admixture at 14%. I don't believe the impact can be as high as 30%. Turks would look too different in that case.
    Good point, At 30% we would definitely see more asiatic phenotypic features.

  10. #85
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,327
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,327, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I don't know what the percentages will turn out to be; I think you need genomes from the invaders at that time period for comparison.

    However, Ygorcs' point is that this 30% would have been itself mixed. The "Mongolian" or "East Asian" like component could have easily been less than 50%. So, the lack of "Mongolian" phenotypes would not be very surprising.

    Plus, it does show up, depending on the area.

    These are Central Asian Turks.




    By the time they reached Anatolia they might have been even more admixed.

    These are modern day Turks. Now, granted, many Turks don't look like this, but a lot of "Turks" are full or part Balkan, or Turkified Greek, or Armenian.





    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  11. #86
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    17-03-16
    Posts
    526
    Points
    5,076
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,076, Level: 21
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 474
    Overall activity: 30.0%


    Country: Greece



    Ygorcs is rational. The admixture can be even higher than 30% because those who migrated and eventually conquered the land weren't proto-Turks (and I don't believe proto-Turks were East Asian) but Oghuz Turks and they could have been mixed more with Persian-like populations than other Oghuz Turks.I don't believe we earn anything by denying their Turkicness and I don't understand what the motives are.

  12. #87
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,327
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,327, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I don't know what the percentages will turn out to be; I think you need genomes from the invaders at that time period for comparison.

    However, Ygorcs' point is that this 30% would have been itself mixed. The "Mongolian" or "East Asian" like component could have easily been less than 50%. So, the lack of "Mongolian" phenotypes would not be very surprising.

    Plus, it does show up, depending on the area.

    These are Central Asian Turks.




    By the time they reached Anatolia they might have been even more admixed.

    These are modern day Turks. Now, granted, many Turks don't look like this, but a lot of "Turks" are full or part Balkan, or Turkified Greek, or Armenian.



    Chad Michael Murray is 1/4 Chinese. Keanu Reeves is 1/4 Polynesian and 1/4 Chinese. Even if you can see it now, would you have guessed?





    SSA ancestry is more visible.

  13. #88
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    300
    Points
    1,995
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,995, Level: 12
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 155
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Strange that whoever wrote that wiki article neglected to mention that this area was part of Magna Graecia, and if Southern Italy, for example, received a lot of gene flow from Greece, than so did the Pontian area.
    The settlement of the Hellenes in Italy was significantly higher than in Pontus. Syracuse was the second or the biggest ancient Greek city in history. (in terms of population) I know something about Magna Graecia but I will not belabor it here.

    Pontus was majority non-Greek before the kingdom of Lazia was established.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridates_VI_of_Pontus

    ---

  14. #89
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,725
    Points
    26,601
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,601, Level: 50
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 949
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Good point, At 30% we would definitely see more asiatic phenotypic features.
    As I said, if the mix was not between Mongol-like people and West Asians, but instead between Uzbek-like and West Asians, you may be almost sure that the outcome would be more or less what many Turkish people look like today. The strongest Turkic expansion to Anatolia happened roughly 1,000 years after the first signs of widespread Turkic expansion to the west, first causing the absorption of the Scythians into the Turkic culture/identity. That's a lot of time for a lot of mixing to happen. There are several - not a majority, but still a sizeable minority - Turks in Turkey that absolutely look like they have some East Asian phenotypical features thrown into their mostly West Eurasian traits. Some of them even look like the average Central Asian (not Kazakhs, but the "southerners" like Turkmen and Uzbeks). I've talked to a few Turkish men who told me their autosomal results for East Asian & Siberian ancestry were well above the average of other Turkish people, around 30%. Many other people have less than 5%. So, it seems like there is still quite a lot of structure within Turkey itself, even after hundreds of years.

  15. #90
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-08-17
    Location
    US
    Posts
    2
    Points
    717
    Level
    6
    Points: 717, Level: 6
    Level completed: 84%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L23

    Ethnic group
    Greek, Albanian
    Country: Greece



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    The settlement of the Hellenes in Italy was significantly higher than in Pontus. Syracuse was the second or the biggest ancient Greek city in history. (in terms of population) I know something about Magna Graecia but I will not belabor it here.

    Pontus was majority non-Greek before the kingdom of Lazia was established.


    ---
    The majority of those in Colchis and Black Sea region were Greek by identity after colonization right up until the exchange. We can't tell for sure what genetic input is like there but it's safe to assume that it's fairly minimal. I've run across a few Pontic Greek GEDmatch results myself and they basically come up as Laz as you would expect.

  16. #91
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Boreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-05-15
    Location
    Istanbul
    Posts
    689
    Points
    5,840
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,840, Level: 22
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 210
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP346
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1b1b1

    Ethnic group
    Rumî
    Country: Turkey



    Quote Originally Posted by ad0nis View Post
    The majority of those in Colchis and Black Sea region were Greek by identity after colonization right up until the exchange.
    No, even before exchange they lost their preponderance
    https://books.google.com.tr/books?id...orence&f=false

  17. #92
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,198
    Points
    39,935
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,935, Level: 61
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 415
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    The settlement of the Hellenes in Italy was significantly higher than in Pontus. Syracuse was the second or the biggest ancient Greek city in history. (in terms of population) I know something about Magna Graecia but I will not belabor it here.

    Pontus was majority non-Greek before the kingdom of Lazia was established.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridates_VI_of_Pontus

    ---

    1) What connection have the Laz? with the greek of Pontos?
    2 Why Mithridates you think changed his satrapy to primary Helenistic?
    and why he always tried to unify Greek colonies of Black sea?

    The Pontic greek dialect is more ancient than Homer,
    In it exists more ancient forms, that even Homer did not use,


    BTW,
    I am not a Pontic Greek,
    But I live among them,
    Laz are different, but they never had problem with Greeks
    Pontic Greeks are a mix of Ionians, with Anatolians, a part of Persians, and Laz

    as for numbers?
    and %?

    search,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  18. #93
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,198
    Points
    39,935
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,935, Level: 61
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 415
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    No, even before exchange they lost their preponderance
    https://books.google.com.tr/books?id...orence&f=false
    hmm

    Thessalonki is consider the homeland of Kemal correct?

    Somewhere in Pontos exist a valley,
    his river name is snake ΟΦΙΣ ofis Turkish Of,
    that area gave 2 big leaders, in modern History.
    the 1rst was Yψηλαντης Ypsilantes Turkish Ipsilantis

    DO YOU KNOW THE SECOND ONE?

    I know cause about 1500 Ofle people live about 4 km from my house,
    he has far relatives here in Makedonia

    Serach the effects of the 2 russo-Turkish wars one at 17th century
    one at early 19th century,

    at the last one, how many expelled to Georgia, and how many islamizised

    Do you know the second ofle great leader ?

  19. #94
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Boreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-05-15
    Location
    Istanbul
    Posts
    689
    Points
    5,840
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,840, Level: 22
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 210
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP346
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1b1b1

    Ethnic group
    Rumî
    Country: Turkey



    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Somewhere in Pontos exist a valley,
    his river name is snake ΟΦΙΣ ofis Turkish Of,
    that area gave 2 big leaders, in modern History.
    the 1rst was Yψηλαντης Ypsilantes Turkish Ipsilantis

    DO YOU KNOW THE SECOND ONE?
    Even I couldn't find any Ipsilantis who was born in Of. I guess This family was Pontic Greek but all historian figures were born in Istanbul.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    at the last one, how many expelled to Georgia, and how many islamizised?
    and how many of local Caucausians were Hellenized...

  20. #95
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    LABERIA's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-15
    Posts
    2,058
    Points
    5,204
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,204, Level: 21
    Level completed: 31%, Points required for next Level: 346
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    hmm

    Thessalonki is consider the homeland of Kemal correct?

    Somewhere in Pontos exist a valley,
    his river name is snake ΟΦΙΣ ofis Turkish Of,
    that area gave 2 big leaders, in modern History.
    the 1rst was Yψηλαντης Ypsilantes Turkish Ipsilantis

    DO YOU KNOW THE SECOND ONE?

    I know cause about 1500 Ofle people live about 4 km from my house,
    he has far relatives here in Makedonia

    Serach the effects of the 2 russo-Turkish wars one at 17th century
    one at early 19th century,

    at the last one, how many expelled to Georgia, and how many islamizised

    Do you know the second ofle great leader ?
    From the last time that we discussed i remember that Ypsilanti was a total failure. When we talk about Greece, a great leader or hero is someone dressed with fustanella.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.
    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.
    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.
    O me zhabat në moçale, o me zhgabat lart në male!
    -Petro Nini Luarasi-

  21. #96
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,198
    Points
    39,935
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,935, Level: 61
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 415
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    From the last time that we discussed i remember that Ypsilanti was a total failure. When we talk about Greece, a great leader or hero is someone dressed with fustanella.
    Mind your heroes

    and leave the Greeks to have their own,

    cause if do not know the Greek revolt correct and the Filliki
    better go serve west,

  22. #97
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    LABERIA's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-15
    Posts
    2,058
    Points
    5,204
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,204, Level: 21
    Level completed: 31%, Points required for next Level: 346
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Mind your heroes

    and leave the Greeks to have their own,
    Stay on topic Yetos and don't involve other ethnic groups who have nothing to do with that region of the world.

  23. #98
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,198
    Points
    39,935
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,935, Level: 61
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 415
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Even I couldn't find any Ipsilantis who was born in Of. I guess This family was Pontic Greek but all historian figures were born in Istanbul.




    and how many of local Caucausians were Hellenized...
    Ipsilanti was born in Con/polis
    But his father came from Of

    Now do you know anyone else who born in Istanbul
    but his amncestors came from Of? offcourse not that back.

    You want help?

  24. #99
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,198
    Points
    39,935
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,935, Level: 61
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 415
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Stay on topic Yetos and don't involve other ethnic groups who have nothing to do with that region of the world.
    I suggest the same also to you.


    BTW
    find kasomoulis,

    you will find my greater family surname there.


    BTW2
    kontea Fustanella etc are Greek dressing

    so either Fustanella, either vraka, either panteloni
    the revolt was one,
    The ones who want to divide,
    are enemies of Balkans,

  25. #100
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    300
    Points
    1,995
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,995, Level: 12
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 155
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Albania



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    1) What connection have the Laz? with the greek of Pontos?
    2 Why Mithridates you think changed his satrapy to primary Helenistic?
    and why he always tried to unify Greek colonies of Black sea?

    The Pontic greek dialect is more ancient than Homer,
    In it exists more ancient forms, that even Homer did not use,


    BTW,
    I am not a Pontic Greek,
    But I live among them,
    Laz are different, but they never had problem with Greeks
    Pontic Greeks are a mix of Ionians, with Anatolians, a part of Persians, and Laz

    as for numbers?
    and %?

    search,
    I found them here:
    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...784#post168784

    Not related but probably you would interested on this one:

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •