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Thread: Turks are Anatolians under the hood?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ad0nis View Post
    The majority of those in Colchis and Black Sea region were Greek by identity after colonization right up until the exchange. We can't tell for sure what genetic input is like there but it's safe to assume that it's fairly minimal. I've run across a few Pontic Greek GEDmatch results myself and they basically come up as Laz as you would expect.
    Not really sure if you are agreeing with me or not. They were Romans (Byzantine-Greeks) by identity though if that is what you mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    The Pontic greek dialect is more ancient than Homer,
    In it exists more ancient forms, that even Homer did not use,

    I am not a Pontic Greek,
    But I live among them,
    Laz are different, but they never had problem with Greeks
    Pontic Greeks are a mix of Ionians, with Anatolians, a part of Persians, and Laz

    as for numbers?
    and %?

    search,
    Cited from Wikipedia:
    The Lazic coast and its hinterland was neither Greek nor Trapezuntine-controlled, apart from a few points on the coast. The uniqueness of the appellation points to the likely absence of any effective administration

    Pontic Greeks, according to genetics, overlap with Lazes, Georgians and Armenians, then with other west Asians (but to a lesser degree of course).

    Can you elaborate on how is the Pontic dialect more ancient than the language of Homer?

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    1 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    A comparison between Pontic, Cappodocian, Asia minor and Peloponnesian Greeks.

    Attached Images Attached Images

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    A comparison between Pontic, Cappodocian, Asia minor and Peloponnesian Greeks.

    Post the link to the study.


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    1 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Post the link to the study.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201718/figures/3

    I cropped the picture from the PDF format (better quality).

    PCA comparisons of the Peloponneseans with three Greek-speaking Asia Minor populations shows only partial overlap with the population of the Asia Minor Aegean coast.

    *Western Asia Minor Greeks were resettled there from Europe.

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    1 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    So, you either don't know what you're doing, or you're trying to spread false information.

    "PCA comparisons of the Peloponneseans with three Greek-speaking Asia Minor populations"


    If you want to know the overlap between Turks and Greeks use the appropriate PCA.

    My patience is wearing thin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, you either don't know what you're doing, or you're trying to spread false information.
    "PCA comparisons of the Peloponneseans with three Greek-speaking Asia Minor populations"
    If you want to know the overlap between Turks and Greeks use the appropriate PCA.
    My patience is wearing thin.
    I don't understand? This is about Anatolian Greeks not Turks. I said the difference between Pontic, Anatolian and Peloponessian Greeks. I did not say anything about Turks.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    I don't understand? This is about Anatolians Greeks not Turks. I said the difference between Pontic, Anatolian and Peloponessians Greeks. I did not said anything about Turks.
    READ a paper before you use it to make points. Even the abstract would have told you that this is a study based on MODERN dna, not ancient dna. THERE ARE NO ANATOLIANS LEFT. The only people living in Anatolia today are modern day TURKS.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    READ a paper before you use it to make points. Even the abstract would have told you that this is a study based on MODERN dna, not ancient dna. THERE ARE NO ANATOLIANS LEFT. The only people living in Anatolia today are modern day TURKS.
    My aim was to show that Greeks from Pontus and Cappodocia are hellenized natives. As if the historical data was not enough. Well here we have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    My aim was to show that Greeks from Pontus and Cappodocia are hellenized natives. As if the historical data was not enough. Well here we have it.
    How did you show that? Can you form an argument with the premises clearly stated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, you either don't know what you're doing, or you're trying to spread false information.

    "PCA comparisons of the Peloponneseans with three Greek-speaking Asia Minor populations"

    You will judge who is Greek?

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    You will judge who is Greek?
    Where the heck did I even address that? From what I could tell he was another Albanian t-rolling Greeks by trying to say that Peloponnesians overlap with Turks. In fact, the PCA showed that some Greeks who live in Turkey either overlap with or are very close to Peloponnesians.

    If you don't understand the conversation between two people it's always best to be quiet or to ask for clarification.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    You will judge who is Greek?
    Actually, the study is doing that, enough already a. papadimitriou.

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    Let's wrap this up. We know that:

    Turks don't overlap with pelopponesians or even come close to them genetically, except for the non-Pontic/non-Cappadocian Greeks living in Turkey.

    Pontic/Cappadocian Greeks are also very distinct from Pelopponesians, but I won't hesitate to consider them as Greeks themselves. I would do wrong otherwise.
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

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    [QUOTE=davef;551077]Let's wrap this up. We know that:

    Turks don't overlap with pelopponesians or even come close to them genetically, except for the non-Pontic/non-Cappadocian Greeks living in Turkey.

    Pontic/Cappadocian Greeks are also very distinct from Pelopponesians, but I won't hesitate to consider them as Greeks themselves. I would do wrong otherwise.[/QUOT

    The problem is comparing Greece and Turkey genetically is noT an honest discussion. Turks have 8 times as much people and territory as Greece. Of course there are Turks who are different. There are regions where they do overlap with Peloponesians.
    Greeks and Turks for thousand of years were in good relations and cohabited entirely Anatolian areas. They exchanged women and goods as part of their strategy of coexistence. The bottom line is the discussion is futile as long as there are no detailed Turkish DNA studies by smaller regions. The best way to end this discussion is to wait for more studies. I dont by it that certain areas of Turkey do not overlap with peloponesus.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Where the heck did I even address that? From what I could tell he was another Albanian t-rolling Greeks by trying to say that Peloponnesians overlap with Turks. In fact, the PCA showed that some Greeks who live in Turkey either overlap with or are very close to Peloponnesians.

    If you don't understand the conversation between two people it's always best to be quiet or to ask for clarification.
    I don't know where these Greek live. Do you know?

    You didn't understand or don't want to admit that what you implied is offensive and inaccurate.

    (All Greek groups have some 'non-Greek' admixture)

    We don't need anyone to defend what is obvious (Peloponneseans don't overlap with Turks) while implying something more offensive.

    The way to deal with the ****** is to ban them.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    I don't know where these Greek live. Do you know?

    You didn't understand or don't want to admit that what you implied is offensive and inaccurate.

    (All Greek groups have some 'non-Greek' admixture)

    We don't need anyone to defend what is obvious (Peloponneseans don't overlap with Turks) while implying something more offensive.

    The way to deal with the ****** is to ban them.
    I showed a PCA with Greeks from Turkey and Peloponnese, Angela misunderstood me thinking I was comparing Greeks with Turks. She did not imply anything offensive for Greeks, it is just a misunderstanding.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    I showed a PCA with Greeks from Turkey and Peloponnese, Angela misunderstood me thinking I was comparing Greeks with Turks. She did not imply anything offensive for Greeks, it is just a misunderstanding.
    Thank-you, ihype, for clarifying what you were doing. I misjudged your intentions. You handled this very well.

    As for the other one, he specializes in acting like a jerk. Ignore him.

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    Many of the actors of turkish serials openly have balkan origins. Actor "Can Yaman" for example in this interview says he is stubborn from his Albanian fathers side:

    https://www.mynet.com/erkenci-kus-un...0474-mymagazin

    google images: https://www.google.com/search?q=can+...w=1242&bih=564
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201718/figures/3

    I cropped the picture from the PDF format (better quality).

    PCA comparisons of the Peloponneseans with three Greek-speaking Asia Minor populations shows only partial overlap with the population of the Asia Minor Aegean coast.

    *Western Asia Minor Greeks were resettled there from Europe.
    Those are Pontic, Cappodocian, Greeks etc from Asia minor they won't cluster with Peloponnesian Greeks. They are closer to the original Anatolians/Hittites .

    There is no such thing as ''Anatolian Greeks'', but rather Pontian Greeks who inhabit Anatolia.

    Many of these Greeks especially in the Alevi/Alawite population were forced to convert during the Ottoman rule especially before during and after the genocide , people also confuse this by saying by ''Turks'' in the racial sense. Most Turks have a average of 10 to 14 percent Central Asian ancestry.

    http://www.oodegr.com/english/thriskies/Islam/lost_christians_asia_minor.htm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Many of the actors of turkish serials openly have balkan origins. Actor "Can Yaman" for example in this interview says he is stubborn from his Albanian fathers side:

    https://www.mynet.com/erkenci-kus-un...0474-mymagazin

    google images: https://www.google.com/search?q=can+...w=1242&bih=564
    That's not a secret either but nothing to do with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenab View Post
    Those are Pontic, Cappodocian, Greeks etc from Asia minor they won't cluster with Peloponnesian Greeks. They are closer to the original Anatolians/Hittites .

    There is no such thing as ''Anatolian Greeks'', but rather Pontian Greeks who inhabit Anatolia.

    Many of these Greeks especially in the Alevi/Alawite population were forced to convert during the Ottoman rule especially before during and after the genocide , people also confuse this by saying by ''Turks'' in the racial sense. Most Turks have a average of 10 to 14 percent Central Asian ancestry.

    http://www.oodegr.com/english/thriskies/Islam/lost_christians_asia_minor.htm

    You are wrong. Anatolian Greeks do exist and before the population exchange of 1923 they were very numerous, reaching as much as 20% in some Aegean regions of Turkey. Anatolian Greeks are not the same as Pontian Greeks, who have much more "Caucasian/Kartvelian-like" genetics, they are mainly the Hellenic population that preceded the Turks in Western Anatolia, not in the Black Sea north coast of Turkey.

    However, you are riht that Turks as a whole, but especially so Anatolian and Caucasian Turks, cannot be described as a discrete population in genetic terms, far less as a race. Turkification seems to have happened with really massive assimilation of pre-Turkic populations. Only that can explain the huge genetic diversity of all Turkic-speaking peoples nowadays in everything, mitochondrial haplogroups, Y haplogroups, autosomal admixtures and so on. Even the Central Asian Turkic input in Anatolia was itself the result of previous Turkic-Iranic admixture in Central Asia, not contribution from Early Turkic people themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    You are wrong. Anatolian Greeks do exist and before the population exchange of 1923 they were very numerous, reaching as much as 20% in some Aegean regions of Turkey. Anatolian Greeks are not the same as Pontian Greeks, who have much more "Caucasian/Kartvelian-like" genetics, they are mainly the Hellenic population that preceded the Turks in Western Anatolia, not in the Black Sea north coast of Turkey.

    However, you are riht that Turks as a whole, but especially so Anatolian and Caucasian Turks, cannot be described as a discrete population in genetic terms, far less as a race. Turkification seems to have happened with really massive assimilation of pre-Turkic populations. Only that can explain the huge genetic diversity of all Turkic-speaking peoples nowadays in everything, mitochondrial haplogroups, Y haplogroups, autosomal admixtures and so on. Even the Central Asian Turkic input in Anatolia was itself the result of previous Turkic-Iranic admixture in Central Asia, not contribution from Early Turkic people themselves.
    No I was comparing Pontian Greeks to Anatolian Hittites not general Greeks who inhabit Western Anatolia. There is descriptions about their comparisons online Pontian Greeks compared to Hittites remember that guy who I sent you in military uniform my Grandmothers Father and who you say he resembles to you, it's those type of people/ancestry . Go back to our private messaging if you want.For the other Greek ethnic background people who inhabit Anatolia I don't know much about.

    I just know Pontian Greeks are close to Hittites and others. But they are also not racially Turks and other comparisons that people try to imply

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    Yes I know Turks are a mixture of Balkan ancestry, pre Slavic ancestry, Greek ancestry Central Asian ancestry Circassian all sorts the list goes on and all. Sometimes multiple mixture of these sometimes and that Central Asian, sometimes without etc etc.

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    I"m a Peloponnesian Greek and typically overlap with Albanians, Thessalians, Tuscans, and/or to a lesser degree Abruzzo Italians. I've seen at least 50 plus mainland Greek results and none are remotely close to Islanders let alone Anatolian Greeks.

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