New autosomal analysis of Iberia

[Turmfalke]

.It's also interesting that Italy north and south have different genetics from each other but, Spain is the opposite in which north and south is similar.

This is due to the Reconquista and the repopulation policy. Eache of the conquered areas was occupied by Christians from the north in exchange for farmland and certain privileges. That´s why genetics is similar.

Once in Iberia there are no obstacles to flow between populations, in contrast to the case in Italy, which is an exceedingly mountainous country. Italy can also be accessed more easily by sea from the Aegean and Greece because of those sea and wind currents and because the civilizations to the east were more sophisticated in terms navigation at a much earlier time. ow find it.

Spain is the second most mountainous country in Europe, after Switzerland. It has a totally uneven and complex orography with many reliefs, including its mountainous systems. That orography has influenced the creation of separate societies. However, as I said before, it was the Reconquista and the Repopulation that made genetic similarity possible.

 

[Ailchu]

Spain is just as "Neolithic", if not as West Asian, as Italy, but Iberian isn't picked up, so I don't see how that can be it.

maybe because the algorithm puts everything to "italian". portuguese people often get high amounts of greek and italian 20-30% on myheritage but i don't know how romans or greeks could have had such an impact on iberian genetics without some kind of genocide.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

So basically, Catalans are the ultimate Spaniards.

 

[Farstar]

Very interesting thread and paper, thank you.

1. It is a pity there is an analysis with Portugal, but not Southern France. It seems clear there should be some continuity of Catalonia into South-West France (Perpinyà, etc.).

2. The clustering in the East-West direction is "politically incorrect" but quite obvious, even at the naked eye. Catalonia+Balearic (but not Valencia; this is somewhat surprising, but it has been said before the Valencians come mostly from Aragonese, despite using Catalan) are a unity in many respects.

3. The map also fits the Roman subdivision, and also the map of Iberic populations.

4. The Reconquista from Asturias' myth seems to need an amendment, since the "resistance against the Muslims" clearly happened in Catalonia, not in Asturias. As ToBeOrNotToBe stated, Catalans seem the ultimate Spaniards, in many respects.

5. Could it be that different nationalities' conflicts within Spain are related to ethnic issues? Is this statement falsable in any way?

 

[Ailchu]

to the one who downvoted my post, could you explain to me how some modern portuguese get 10% sardinian and others 10% greek in myheritage? or how swiss get 30% greek? or how albanians get over 90% greek? did all of this ancestry actually originate in greece in the last 2000-3000 years because of greek conquerors and romans or more recent migrations?

 

[Roi]

I have seen this study now. I wonder where is the DNA footprint of ancient germanic tribes that settled in Iberia in the V century.. specially in NW, according to Y-DNA results, the input should be visible... I know there were few in comparison with the native population at that time, but so where berbers and nevertheless their influence is clear and significative... or may be that suebi, goths, etc are included in the "french" DNA?

 

[Davidtab]

If the admixsure event ocurred between 860-1120 in Galicia and Northern Portugal, It could be caused by northafrican christians escaping of muslims. It is documentated that, for example, city of Lugo was reocupied in 740 by Odoario and his people, who were northafricans. I believe it's extremely rare the E-M81 in Galicia comes from muslims because they stayed there no more than 25 years. But It could come from Christian refugees of northafrica, that's only an idea.

 

[Davidtab]

Galicia, Cantabric mountains were the first territory free of muslims in Iberian Península. Perhaps is not a fool thing to think Galicia received in VIII century a important amount of Christian refugees from actually Marocco.

 

[DarknessC]

I’m not for one surprised it shows up on autosomal

 

[nuno77]

A study from 2005-06 of the Y-DNA of Portugal by its districts.


View attachment 10406

I have seen this study now. I wonder where is the DNA footprint of ancient germanic tribes that settled in Iberia in the V century.. specially in NW, according to Y-DNA results, the input should be visible... I know there were few in comparison with the native population at that time, but so where berbers and nevertheless their influence is clear and significative... or may be that suebi, goths, etc are included in the "french" DNA?

 

[Angela]

We know from the ancient dna we are starting to get from the Germanic tribes that R1b U-106 and I1 are the lineages to track. If they're not there then that is proof that as we already speculated, and as Ralph and Coop showed in terms of autsomal dna, there just were too few of them to have a significant impact in certain areas of Southern Europe.

See:
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555

 

[Roi]

I1 and R1b U-106 are in fact present in nortwestern Iberia, at levels comparatively higher than in other areas of the peninsula. According to Maciamo maps, combined "germanic" y-dna reach 10-20% in Galicia; with I1 being at 5-10% in Galicia and R1-U106 standing below 5% in Galicia, where it is still higher than in other areas of Iberia, though. 23andMe's Map's indicate a level of 10-20% of NW European admixture in the same area and 1-5% of French & German admixture, again slightly higher than in other parts of the peninsula. There are other studies that do reflect the influence of germanic peoples in the genetic history of Galicians (Sorry, but I can't post links yet) so I wonder why they don't appear on the referred study. Is it possible that this "central-european DNA" is hidden within the "French like" DNA showed in the study? even though, it seems strange that nowhere in Iberia appears any level of coincidence between iberian populations and germans or other central/northern-europeans (not even in Catalonia, that according to most studies has a level of "germanic" DNA even higher than Galicia)

 

[Roi]

So what do you think about that?

 

[Ygorcs]

Great find Angela thank you for this.

"We speculate that the pattern we see is driven by later internal migratory flows, such as between Portugal and Galicia, and this would also explain why Galicia and Portugal show indistinguishable ancestry sharing with non-Spanish groups more generally. Alternatively, it might be that these patterns reflect regional differences in patterns of settlement and integration with local peoples of north African immigrants themselves, or varying extents of the large-scale expulsion of Muslim people, which occurred post-Reconquista and especially in towns and cities"

I think this would the explanation on why Galicia has got quite a bit of E-M81 and a little bit of African admixture.

It's also interesting that Italy north and south have different genetics from each other but, Spain is the opposite in which north and south is similar.

The persecution of Jews and Muslims has indeed been considered to be much less rabid and intense in Portugal than in Spain. Portugal mostly followed the lead of Castile and Aragon, but with less enthusiasm generallyl The Reconquista ended and consolidated in Portugal much earlier, too, which probably allowed for a longer time for the full assimilation of part of the forner Muslims of North African origins at a time when the zealous obsession with religious and ethnic purity was much less in vogue, still in the High Middle Ages. Galicia and Portugal might thus have simply given historical conditions more conducive to the preservation of the North African contribution to their people.

 

[Carlos]

[QUOTE = ToBeOrNotToBe; 548234] Entonces, básicamente, los catalanes son los últimos españoles. [/ QUOTE]

It can be extended a little more.

 

[Carlos]

[CITA = Maciamo; 535088] Es grandioso ver un detallado análisis autosómico de los íberos. El clima este oeste fue evidente en la distribución de haplogrupos Y, aunque las regiones no coinciden exactamente. Este estudio confirma la identidad genética distintiva de los vascos, catalanes y gallegos / portugueses en comparación con el resto de la población española. Ya lo sabíamos por la lingüística y el ADN-Y, pero es bueno tener un ADN autosómico que lo corrobore aún más. [/ QUOTE]

yes, yes...

 

[Salento]

Edit...

Iberia | Spanish | Navarre, Aragon | 1%

There are others in my Region with the same result.

It’s just 1%, maybe Ancient. Why only Navarre, or Aragon?

Feel free to speculate.

 

[Angela]

Carlos, you know the rule is English only. Cut it out.

Actually, the day isn't going well at all, if you must know: my dog is sick and I have to take him to the veterinarian. So, I don't need any more headaches, ok?

 

[Carlos]

Carlos, you know the rule is English only. Cut it out.

Actually, the day isn't going well at all, if you must know: my dog is sick and I have to take him to the veterinarian. So, I don't need any more headaches, ok?

It happens fatal, poor, that he recovers soon.

 

[Carlos]

Edit...

Iberia | Spanish | Navarre, Aragon | 1%

There are others in my Region with the same result.

It’s just 1%, maybe Ancient. Why only Navarre, or Aragon?

Navarre and Aragon, yes, why. Perhaps if it is ancient it is from a time when the borders were not as they are now, and to give a current result the two regions appear. I have five match for mitochondrial DNA with people from Navarra algono de Álava and one from Majones that is in Huesca. Perhaps they have found some mummy that had that little bit of DNA from Navarre and Aragon and maybe the Romans took it to act as a dancer; although they preferred the dancers from Gades, you know because of their exoticism and morocco and SSA, there is no, that the Moors had not yet arrived, so one day we will find out.