Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 76

Thread: How similar are Spaniards and Southern French people? Common ancestry?

  1. #26
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Not implying that at all. Your mom's 1/2 Eastern European 1/2 French? You got 26 percent Eastern Europe so the other 24 percent is French?
    Why are you asking?

  2. #27
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    According to the Haak et al. (2015) Figure 3 that Angela has posted a few times in other threads the Basque have a fair amount of Steppe ancestry. What seems to separate them from the Spanish and Southern French is their Western Hunter Gatherer ancestry. The Spanish and Tuscans appear to have none. The Southern French and Sardinians have very little.

    23andMe is the most conservative company in my opinion in assigning Iberian or Italian to people with French ancestry. I only received 0.8% Iberian on 23andMe vs. 31% Southwestern on DNA Land. Also, I only received 0.3% Italian vs. 8.3% South Italy on Living DNA. I’m curious what someone from Auvergne would score. Have you considered testing with 23andMe?

    By the way “Helix” is the latest version of the Natgeo test that employs the new imputation microchip. I’m not sure if it’s still compatible with a FTDNA transfer.
    Exactly this. At the bottom. I can't transfer the raw DNA to be read/interpreted because it's through helix. Is there any chance anyone here could perhaps teach me to read my raw DNA? So that maybe I could enter it in and determine my haplogroup?

  3. #28
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Also for everyone, how lenient/likely is Nat Geo to assign Southwestern European ancestry? Do they use it quite liberally or is it likely that the test is accurate?
    And what DNA test should I take next? Should I even bother with autosomal testing or should I just get a Y67 test from FTDNA to figure out my paternal history and haplogroup? If I was interested in discovering my family history, and my deep history, what's the best bang for my buck?

    Additionally, why and how did the Spanish contribute to the gene pool of Southern Italy and Sicily? What subsect of the Spanish population left the biggest impact?

  4. #29
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    Not sure what Helix is. But normally, you can upload your Geno2.0 results to FTDNA quite simply, using only your kit number (just visit the FTDNA site ; they work hand in hand, Geno is just a commercial showcase of FTdna). That done, you can download your autosomal "raw data" from your FTDNA page. That "raw data" file makes it possible for you to use all the free GEDmatch apps. It won't help with Y-dna though, because Geno doesn't go into STRs.

    Culturally and linguistically, southern France and Iberia have a lot in common. However, most of it is part of the post-Roman conquest heritage (including languages, derived from the "vulgar Latin" spoken by Roman soldiers), and doesn't tell much about the genetic proximity prior to that.

    Occitan is no longer spoken in my parts. My grandmothers used their local Auvergnat variant at family gatherings when talking to each other, and when talking to neighbours their age. I learnt some from listening to them, but I am currently compiling a lexicon, and what grammar rules I remember, to salvage it from total disappearance. Compulsory education in the late 19C, and the ban on local dialects imposed from Paris, led to ineluctable extinction. Yet, the days of the week, for example, are strictly identical in my dialect to what they are in Catalan.
    So FTNA would read my autosomal bio Geographic results the same as Nat Geo would? Helix too? So the SW European thing is actually somewhat accurate, wow.

  5. #30
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    08-12-16
    Posts
    274
    Points
    3,992
    Level
    18
    Points: 3,992, Level: 18
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 258
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-FGC24357
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2a6

    Ethnic group
    Hainaut Belgium and Quebec Canada
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by ASkepticalSpaniard View Post
    So FTNA would read my autosomal bio Geographic results the same as Nat Geo would? Helix too? So the SW European thing is actually somewhat accurate, wow.
    I don’t know if there was a significant population movement from Iberia to Southern Italy. I would think the similarities derive from a shared Neolithic farming component.

    If you want to see what influences are in your genetics from thousands of years ago I think Natgeo or DNA Land are the way to go. If you want to know where your ancestors are from within the last few hundred years I would go with 23andMe. I think the difference in time frame corresponds to the difference in length of chromosome segments being analyzed.

    I thought Natgeo provided haplogroups? If they don’t with Helix I would go with 23andMe then. If you want a true detailed analysis of your Y chromosome I would save up for Full Genomes Corp Y Elite 2.1 test instead of wasting money on intermediate tests with less info.

  6. #31
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    I don’t know if there was a significant population movement from Iberia to Southern Italy. I would think the similarities derive from a shared Neolithic farming component.

    If you want to see what influences are in your genetics from thousands of years ago I think Natgeo or DNA Land are the way to go. If you want to know where your ancestors are from within the last few hundred years I would go with 23andMe. I think the difference in time frame corresponds to the difference in length of chromosome segments being analyzed.

    I thought Natgeo provided haplogroups? If they don’t with Helix I would go with 23andMe then. If you want a true detailed analysis of your Y chromosome I would save up for Full Genomes Corp Y Elite 2.1 test instead of wasting money on intermediate tests with less info.
    Not to play devil's advocate, but to my knowledge the populations of Sicily and Southern Italy aren't necessarily related to the populations of Iberia/SW France. Did Spanish soldiers emigrate to Sicily quite often? There is a fair amount of 'Italian' in there with 13% being identifiably Italian and 19% being Anatolian. Is it possible that spanish men or even French men settled down with Italian women?

    It's strange to say the least.

    Anyway, is 23andMe cross compatible with other websites if I wanted to analyze my DNA?

    And tell me more about Corp Y Elite 2.1, what makes it so special? What is so great about it?

    And for both options, is there a way to expedite the process so I can get my results sooner? Maybe an extra fee or something?

  7. #32
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,119
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by ASkepticalSpaniard View Post
    Not to play devil's advocate, but to my knowledge the populations of Sicily and Southern Italy aren't necessarily related to the populations of Iberia/SW France. Did Spanish soldiers emigrate to Sicily quite often? There is a fair amount of 'Italian' in there with 13% being identifiably Italian and 19% being Anatolian. Is it possible that spanish men or even French men settled down with Italian women?

    It's strange to say the least.

    Anyway, is 23andMe cross compatible with other websites if I wanted to analyze my DNA?

    And tell me more about Corp Y Elite 2.1, what makes it so special? What is so great about it?

    And for both options, is there a way to expedite the process so I can get my results sooner? Maybe an extra fee or something?
    apart from tuscany, papal states and venice and its vast lands ....all other areas of italy where either under spain or france so one could easily see what you describe
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  8. #33
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,552
    Points
    291,909
    Level
    100
    Points: 291,909, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Gentlemen, there is a reason why most of Iberia and North Italy and even a bit of Tuscany plot near one another on virtually every PCA I've ever seen.

    It's because they share a lot of ancestry in common, most of it dating to the Neolithic and Chalcolithic.

    Differing gene flow impacts on Southern Italy/Sicily pull it apart from Spain,but that underlying similar EN/MN ancestry is still shared between the two.

    Some commercial tests pick it up and some don't. Perhaps 23andme doesn't show it because they have a lot more Italian samples, and so the alleles in a particular person find a match in other Italians quite easily. Perhaps some other companies include "Northern Italy" in the "Italian" cluster? I don't know. Never having taken any of these tests I lose track of the definition of their clusters.

    That doesn't mean that there weren't continuing contacts and admixture to some degree. However, I think whatever there was was much more prevalent in Northwest Italy because of the Beakers and continuing admixture along the north Mediterranean rim from Liguria/Tuscany all the way to Valencia. That's why a lot of Northwest Italians, including me, get chunks of "Iberian" even in 23andme, whereas Southern Italians get almost none, but get quite a bit of Balkan.

    If one were to follow Graham and Coop, there's been no significant admixture between Spaniards and Italians for thousands of years. However, I don't think the Popres data they used included many Piemontese, Ligurians, or Northwest Tuscans.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555

    Some soldiers from Aragon are not the kind of contact that substantially changes the genome of an area, in my opinion. There has to be more than that.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  9. #34
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Gentlemen, there is a reason why most of Iberia and North Italy and even a bit of Tuscany plot near one another on virtually every PCA I've ever seen.
    It's because they share a lot of ancestry in common, most of it dating to the Neolithic and Chalcolithic.
    Differing gene flow impacts on Southern Italy/Sicily pull it apart from Spain,but that underlying similar EN/MN ancestry is still shared between the two.
    Some commercial tests pick it up and some don't. Perhaps 23andme doesn't show it because they have a lot more Italian samples, and so the alleles in a particular person find a match in other Italians quite easily. Perhaps some other companies include "Northern Italy" in the "Italian" cluster? I don't know. Never having taken any of these tests I lose track of the definition of their clusters.
    That doesn't mean that there weren't continuing contacts and admixture to some degree. However, I think whatever there was was much more prevalent in Northwest Italy because of the Beakers and continuing admixture along the north Mediterranean rim from Liguria/Tuscany all the way to Valencia. That's why a lot of Northwest Italians, including me, get chunks of "Iberian" even in 23andme, whereas Southern Italians get almost none, but get quite a bit of Balkan.
    If one were to follow Graham and Coop, there's been no significant admixture between Spaniards and Italians for thousands of years. However, I don't think the Popres data they used included many Piemontese, Ligurians, or Northwest Tuscans.
    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555
    Some soldiers from Aragon are not the kind of contact that substantially changes the genome of an area, in my opinion. There has to be more than that.
    I have a few rebuttals, but before I say anything, I will always admit that I'm a novice in this area.
    With that said, my Sicilian relatives on my fathers side always would say the town we hailed from (not going to be specific, but assume near the western tip of the island) was settled by Spaniards and Aragonese soldiers. My grandfather boasted that his grandfather was a 'giant of a man' and looked more 'Spanish than Sicilian' with red hair and piercing blue eyes - how true or accurate that is judging by the statement, I don't know.
    My Neapolitan relatives through my father also claim that they have Spanish blood being that their last name was an Italianized form of an original Spanish name - surprisingly enough their DNA tests somewhat confirmed it.
    What I'm getting at is, to my knowledge, there was not a mass influx of Spaniards into Sicily/S. Italy of course, we know this. But for the hundreds of years under Aragonese rule, there were thousands of nobles, generals, captains, soldiers, merchants, officials, and magistrates who passed through, resided and retired to the island. This is undeniable. Not to mention, many Sicilian and Southern Italian officials often married into Spanish families.
    Call me crazy, but in a small village on the western seaboard of Sicily, if a few Spanish soldiers had kids with local women and those kids went on to have kids and so on and so forth, the genetic impact of that particular little village is forever changed. Does it impact the Italian populace at large? Of course not, but it does alter a family's history.

    Call me crazy, but I find that being far more plausible than me having such a high degree of what I'd assume to be Sicani ancestry (originally Spaniards/common ancestors) being that only 25% of my father's inherited genetics will be identifiably Sicilian.

    This is ironic, especially being that I have a surname which is coincidentally linked to people who were foundling/illegitimate.
    Does that make sense?
    And fwiw, the entire breakdown for my father's side should be 19% Anatolian, 13% Italian with the remainder presumably coming from SW Europe.

  10. #35
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Also what is your opinion on the accuracy of nat geo's geno 2.0 autosomal testing system compared to other programs?

  11. #36
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    apart from tuscany, papal states and venice and its vast lands ....all other areas of italy where either under spain or france so one could easily see what you describe
    Do you know of any books that describe Spanish soldiers retiring to Sicily or producing illegitimate children with Sicilian women?

  12. #37
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,552
    Points
    291,909
    Level
    100
    Points: 291,909, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by ASkepticalSpaniard View Post
    Do you know of any books that describe Spanish soldiers retiring to Sicily or producing illegitimate children with Sicilian women?
    I have no doubt such things happened. Certain families may have such ancestry, and certain towns may have an unusual amount of it.

    Even if all of that could be proved factually instead of as "family stories", that wouldn't change the fact that such occasional contacts are highly unlikely to have changed the average genome of millions of Southern Italians/Sicilians.

    If that were the case we would see it in IBD analyses, and we don't, or Ralph and Coop et al would have found it.

    I recommend you read it.
    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555

    Take a particular look at Figure S12.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...o.1001555.s012

  13. #38
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,229
    Points
    11,551
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,551, Level: 32
    Level completed: 44%, Points required for next Level: 399
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Yes, absolutely, Angela!

    Skeptical Spaniard, your south Italian and Sicilian family is very atypical genetically in comparison to other southern Italians and Sicilians due to the Spanish ancestry. Sicilians and south Italians should only score a tiny percentage of Iberian, if any. That's my take on this.
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

  14. #39
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I have no doubt such things happened. Certain families may have such ancestry, and certain towns may have an unusual amount of it.

    Even if all of that could be proved factually instead of as "family stories", that wouldn't change the fact that such occasional contacts are highly unlikely to have changed the average genome of millions of Southern Italians/Sicilians.

    If that were the case we would see it in IBD analyses, and we don't, or Ralph and Coop et al would have found it.

    I recommend you read it.
    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555

    Take a particular look at Figure S12.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...o.1001555.s012
    I will do so. Thanks for the links.

    I'm still skeptical that 42%, close to 50% of my genetics are registered as SW European. Common ancestry, eh, don't know.

    Ideally I'd like to take another DNA autosomal test to verify my results.

  15. #40
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Yes, absolutely, Angela!

    Skeptical Spaniard, your south Italian and Sicilian family is very atypical genetically in comparison to other southern Italians and Sicilians due to the Spanish ancestry. Sicilians and south Italians should only score a tiny percentage of Iberian, if any. That's my take on this.
    Bear in mind, my mother is also half French - or at least mostly French.

    So I'm getting both a sizable contingent from both my mother and father.

    As far as my father goes, I'm assuming I inherit close to 20% of SW European genetics from him, a little bit more from my mom.

    What do you think it means for my dad? If I'm testing close to 20% does that mean there's a lot of ancestry, or that it's more recent or what?

  16. #41
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Hi everyone, I wanted to ask about the similarity and accuracy of genetic biogeographical testing of geno 2.0 and how similar other programs/kits are to it?

    I guess what I'm asking is if I take say an ancestry DNA test, will my results be more or less similar?

    Additionally, if Spaniards did settle in the South of Sicily, likely soldiers, what time period would they have settled in for me to have close to 20% Spanish through my father's side?

  17. #42
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    hrvclv's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-03-17
    Location
    Auvergne, France
    Posts
    410
    Points
    9,779
    Level
    29
    Points: 9,779, Level: 29
    Level completed: 72%, Points required for next Level: 171
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-U152-DF103
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1bm

    Ethnic group
    Arvern
    Country: France



    Hi SS (I mean Skeptical Spaniard - just a little joke ! - couldn't help it !),

    Have you tried to tranfer your Geno results to FTDNA ? I am no genetics expert - just another amateur like you, trying to understand - but before testing again with another lab, I'd try this transfer option first and foremost. I did it for people in my family who tested with Geno. Simple and quick. Again, I am not sure it works with Helix, but you should at least try to transfer.

    FTDNA is not much more reliable than Geno. But the point is : once you have transferred, you can download your "raw data".

    Those raw data can then be uploaded to quite a number of free apps on the internet (Gedmatch, Gencove, DNALand). None of them is perfect, but by comparing them all, you can get an idea of what's predominant in your genetic makeup.

    Your DNA is what it is. Testing with another lab won't change it. Geno's data are OK. It is probably their interpretation that is either hasty, or "patchy". It also depends on the reference populations they have in store. That's why transferring would be a simple way of cross-examining their conclusions. Do give it a try. Good luck.
    It is therefore worth while to search out the bounds between opinion and knowledge; and examine by what measures, in things whereof we have no certain knowledge, we ought to regulate our assent and moderate our persuasion. (John Locke)

  18. #43
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    Hi SS (I mean Skeptical Spaniard - just a little joke ! - couldn't help it !),

    Have you tried to tranfer your Geno results to FTDNA ? I am no genetics expert - just another amateur like you, trying to understand - but before testing again with another lab, I'd try this transfer option first and foremost. I did it for people in my family who tested with Geno. Simple and quick. Again, I am not sure it works with Helix, but you should at least try to transfer.

    FTDNA is not much more reliable than Geno. But the point is : once you have transferred, you can download your "raw data".

    Those raw data can then be uploaded to quite a number of free apps on the internet (Gedmatch, Gencove, DNALand). None of them is perfect, but by comparing them all, you can get an idea of what's predominant in your genetic makeup.

    Your DNA is what it is. Testing with another lab won't change it. Geno's data are OK. It is probably their interpretation that is either hasty, or "patchy". It also depends on the reference populations they have in store. That's why transferring would be a simple way of cross-examining their conclusions. Do give it a try. Good luck.
    Hi, thanks for the response, so anyway, I had taken the gene 2.0 test done by helix and unfortunately I can't transfer the direct results over to FTDNA.

    I can download my raw data though, although I don't know of any service that is cross compatible with geno 2.0 helix.

    Do you think that Geno 2.0's interpretation is hasty or messed up or is it likely it's accurate? And why would I be close to be 50% Southwest European and how does that relate to their body of evidence?

    Additionally, what exactly is classified as Southwest European by geno 2.0's standards?

  19. #44
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,229
    Points
    11,551
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,551, Level: 32
    Level completed: 44%, Points required for next Level: 399
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    I don't know how to answer that, but just my 2 cents-you should do 23andme, seems to be what a lot of members here prefer including Angela. If it picks up a lot of Iberian from your Sicilian half, then you got some Spanish ancestry in there

  20. #45
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-18
    Posts
    57
    Points
    663
    Level
    6
    Points: 663, Level: 6
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 17.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I don't know how to answer that, but just my 2 cents-you should do 23andme, seems to be what a lot of members here prefer including Angela. If it picks up a lot of Iberian from your Sicilian half, then you got some Spanish ancestry in there
    Well I'm a quarter Sicilian, a quarter Neapolitan and a quarter French (presumably from gascony). With that said, I'm assuming I have it coming from both my paternal and maternal sides, correct?

    And do you know how recent that DNA must be for me to be 42% Southwestern european?


    And lastly, of the DNA test, in order which are the best at interpreting your results and making an accurate assessment of your ethnicity?

  21. #46
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    08-12-16
    Posts
    274
    Points
    3,992
    Level
    18
    Points: 3,992, Level: 18
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 258
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-FGC24357
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2a6

    Ethnic group
    Hainaut Belgium and Quebec Canada
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by ASkepticalSpaniard View Post
    Well I'm a quarter Sicilian, a quarter Neapolitan and a quarter French (presumably from gascony). With that said, I'm assuming I have it coming from both my paternal and maternal sides, correct?
    And do you know how recent that DNA must be for me to be 42% Southwestern european?
    And lastly, of the DNA test, in order which are the best at interpreting your results and making an accurate assessment of your ethnicity?
    I think the key issue is for you to do some genealogical research on the other 1/4 of your mom’s side to specifically find out where her ancestry is from in France. I’ve seen Ancestry ethnicity estimates of Southwestern French score 70%-80% Iberian Peninsula. If she is more than 50% Gascon then you could easily inherit 42% just from her.
    Another point I want to emphasize is that the Natgeo Helix test has no Western Europe category. They only have Northwestern which is basically north of the Loire River. Everything else for France gets assigned to Southwestern or South Central.
    You might want to test with a company that has a Western Europe category such FTDNA with their “West and Central Europe” category or 23andMe with their “French and German” category to see how closely your French resembles Iberian. To show you how labels can be misleading let me reiterate my scores.
    DNA Land (Similar Regions to Helix):
    Northwestern 63%
    Southwestern 31%
    FTDNA:
    West and Central 90%
    Iberian 0%
    23andMe:
    Northwestern(Western): 86.1%
    Broadly European(Central): 3.1%
    Iberian 0.8%
    Living DNA:
    Great Britain (Northwestern) 63%
    Rest is unassigned in Cautious Mode
    Last edited by mwauthy; 27-03-18 at 16:24. Reason: Correction

  22. #47
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,229
    Points
    11,551
    Level
    32
    Points: 11,551, Level: 32
    Level completed: 44%, Points required for next Level: 399
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    I don't know how to rank them, but I've heard more positive things about 23andme and other tests seem to have a lot of problems. I think the picture would be more clear if your dad tests.

  23. #48
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    08-12-16
    Posts
    274
    Points
    3,992
    Level
    18
    Points: 3,992, Level: 18
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 258
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-FGC24357
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2a6

    Ethnic group
    Hainaut Belgium and Quebec Canada
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I don't know how to rank them, but I've heard more positive things about 23andme and other tests seem to have a lot of problems. I think the picture would be more clear if your dad tests.
    I would go with 23andMe as well. FTDNA does a good job with Western Europeans giving my French Canadian mom 99% West and Central Europe and my Belgian father 80% West and Central Europe and giving me 90% West and Central Europe. However, they do a poor job with Italians (my wife) giving inflated percentages for Iberian and Sephardic. Since his father is Southern Italian 23andMe is probably the best bet.

  24. #49
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,711
    Points
    702,950
    Level
    100
    Points: 702,950, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 21.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I am joining the discussion a bit late. The South French should be divided in at least 2 or 3 subgroups. The Gascons and Basques in the Southwest are the closest to the Spaniards, and particularly to the Basques and Navarrans. These people are all primarily descended from the ancient Vascones.

    You can see on this map of ancient Iberian ancestry just how close they are:




    The Provençals are closer to the North Italians than to the Spaniards. Provence was heavily colonised by the Romans and already had Greek colonies (Marseille, Nice) before that. The Languedoc in between Gascony and Provence is mixed Vascones and Greco-Roman, with also higher levels of Celtic/Gaulish and Germanic (Gothic and Frankish) than either Gascony or Provence. Languedoc is closer to Catalonia in Spain, and indeed southern Languedoc (Aude) and Roussillon is almost indistinguishable from coastal Catalan.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  25. #50
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,552
    Points
    291,909
    Level
    100
    Points: 291,909, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I am joining the discussion a bit late. The South French should be divided in at least 2 or 3 subgroups. The Gascons and Basques in the Southwest are the closest to the Spaniards, and particularly to the Basques and Navarrans. These people are all primarily descended from the ancient Vascones.

    You can see on this map of ancient Iberian ancestry just how close they are:




    The Provençals are closer to the North Italians than to the Spaniards. Provence was heavily colonised by the Romans and already had Greek colonies (Marseille, Nice) before that. The Languedoc in between Gascony and Provence is mixed Vascones and Greco-Roman, with also higher levels of Celtic/Gaulish and Germanic (Gothic and Frankish) than either Gascony or Provence. Languedoc is closer to Catalonia in Spain, and indeed southern Languedoc (Aude) and Roussillon is almost indistinguishable from coastal Catalan.
    Excellent. Exactly right.

    You can see the affiliation between Provence and surrounding areas with northern Italy as early as the Neolithic. Also, we see this from y Dna in places like Liguria and Piemonte, and from the recent paper on ancient Lombard dna which showed some of the samples were "French" like.

    From the Reich book: just one component, but still informative, I think.
    [IMG][/IMG]

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •