How similar are Spaniards and Southern French people? Common ancestry?

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ASkepticalSpaniard

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Are the haplogroups for both groups nearly identical? What differences are there, if any, for both y DNA and even maternal DNA?

Caesar said the aquitanians were essentially Spaniards, is that true even today when it comes to genetics and linguistics and culture?

Thanks
 
ASkepticalSpaniard said:
Are the haplogroups for both groups nearly identical? What differences are there, if any, for both y DNA and even maternal DNA?

Caesar said the aquitanians were essentially Spaniards, is that true even today when it comes to genetics and linguistics and culture?

Thanks
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My mom is French Canadian and I’ve traced back so far about 250 of her ancestors to 17th century France. Out of 250 only 3 are from Gascony. Yet she scores 32-34% Iberian Peninsula or Southwestern European and I score about 25-27%. About 100 of her ancestors are from La Rochelle, Aunis and Poitou which is west/central France.

So I think the similarities between French and Spaniards go beyond original Aquitania or the Garonne River. There might be some Atlantic Coastal Iron Age connection or maybe there were mass migrations north of the Garonne River during the 5 centuries of Roman rule. The Roman province of Aquitania almost stretches to the Loire River.
 
mwauthy said:
My mom is French Canadian and I’ve traced back so far about 250 of her ancestors to 17th century France. Out of 250 only 3 are from Gascony. Yet she scores 32-34% Iberian Peninsula or Southwestern European and I score about 25-27%. About 100 of her ancestors are from La Rochelle, Aunis and Poitou which is west/central France.

So I think the similarities between French and Spaniards go beyond original Aquitania or the Garonne River. There might be some Atlantic Coastal Iron Age connection or maybe there were mass migrations north of the Garonne River during the 5 centuries of Roman rule. The Roman province of Aquitania almost stretches to the Loire River.
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Well, I'm asking because my father's family comes from Southern Italy and Sicily, meanwhile my mother's family comes from what I believe to be France. Yet for Nat Geo Geno 2.0 by Helix I score close to 50% Southwestern Europe.

To my knowledge, my mother's family had French Protestants in their line, so I'm assuming they come from the South but that's only an educated guess at best.

I'm a little shocked honestly, I wish someone could explain the autosomal results from both sides of the family.
 
And just asking, where do people from central and Northern France test as in the Nat Geo geno 2.0 test? Like what are they classified as?

And to be sure, La Rochelle, Aunis, and Poitou historically spoke Occitan dialects, correct?
 
Its unusual for a person who is half Southern Italian or Sicilian to score half Iberian half something non Southern Europeam but that's my opinion. Maybe it's just this one test, but if you're scoring similarly in other tests, then that would point out that your father is genetically Iberian or Iberian like and not genetically south Italian or Sicilian.

I could be wrong, just my 2 pennies
 
historians state that the iberians and the ligurians bordered each other on the rhone river south france
in older Greek usage (as in Thuc. vi. 1) the term Iberia is said to have embraced the country as far east as the Rhone (see Herodorus of Heraclea, Fragm. Hist. Gr. ii. 34), and by the time of Strabo it was the common Greek name for the Spanish peninsula. Iberians thus meant sometimes the population of the peninsula in general and sometimes, it would appear, the peoples of some definite race (γένος) which formed one element in that population.


https://books.google.com.au/books?i...q=ancient iberians on the rhone river&f=false

page 62
 
ASkepticalSpaniard said:
And just asking, where do people from central and Northern France test as in the Nat Geo geno 2.0 test? Like what are they classified as?

And to be sure, La Rochelle, Aunis, and Poitou historically spoke Occitan dialects, correct?
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I’m no expert but according to a map I saw people from Aunis, Saintonage, and Poitou spoke a Langues d’oile. Also Caesar classified the Gaulish tribes of the Santones and Pictones as being Celtae and different than the Aquitan.

My moms Norman and Parisian ancestors north of the Loire usually show up as United Kingdom or Scandinavia on ethnicity estimates. Her ancestors from Aunis and Poitou usually show up as Iberian or Italian. I do think the Loire River might be some type of barrier between a more Celtic/Germanic North and Iberian/Italian South. Very few French Canadians came from eastern France so they don’t score a lot of Europe West which peaks from Switzerland to the Netherlands.
 
davef said:
Its unusual for a person who is half Southern Italian or Sicilian to score half Iberian half something non Southern Europeam but that's my opinion. Maybe it's just this one test, but if you're scoring similarly in other tests, then that would point out that your father is genetically Iberian or Iberian like and not genetically south Italian or Sicilian.

I could be wrong, just my 2 pennies
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Did the Spanish really have all that much of an influence in Sicily and Southern Italy?

Still that's only 1/2 of the equation, because my mother is mostly French American through her father and her mother was from the Eastern bloc, and that certainly contributes to the genetic autosomal output.

To give you some perspective, I'm 42% Southwest European, 19% Anatolian, 13% Italian, with the remainder being Eastern European.
 
mwauthy said:
I’m no expert but according to a map I saw people from Aunis, Saintonage, and Poitou spoke a Langues d’oile. Also Caesar classified the Gaulish tribes of the Santones and Pictones as being Celtae and different than the Aquitan.

My moms Norman and Parisian ancestors north of the Loire usually show up as United Kingdom or Scandinavia on ethnicity estimates. Her ancestors from Aunis and Poitou usually show up as Iberian or Italian. I do think the Loire River might be some type of barrier between a more Celtic/Germanic North and Iberian/Italian South. Very few French Canadians came from eastern France so they don’t score a lot of Europe West which peaks from Switzerland to the Netherlands.
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Hmm, interesting. What do you make of the SW European influence through my father's side? What gives there?

Also, what is the general consensus among the bioregional ancestry report done by Geno 2.0 through Helix? To my knowledge it's one of the most accurate tests out there. Any comment?
 
ASkepticalSpaniard said:
Did the Spanish really have all that much of an influence in Sicily and Southern Italy?

Still that's only 1/2 of the equation, because my mother is mostly French American through her father and her mother was from the Eastern bloc, and that certainly contributes to the genetic autosomal output.

To give you some perspective, I'm 42% Southwest European, 19% Anatolian, 13% Italian, with the remainder being Eastern European.
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Did your dad take the same test? Is his score typical of how South Italians should score?

And Im no expert but the Spanish did not impact south Italy or Sicily genetically.
 
davef said:
Did your dad take the same test? Is his score typical of how South Italians should score?

And Im no expert but the Spanish did not impact south Italy or Sicily genetically.
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He did not take it. But if you're implying a non paternity event, sorry, we're father and son suffice to say the very least.

I don't know, from what I've been told Iberian genetics can show up in many Sicilians and Southern Italians to such a degree where it can be a sizable percentage. To my knowledge, soldiers and traders both tended to migrate from the Kingdom of Aragon to Sicily.
 
davef said:
Did your dad take the same test? Is his score typical of how South Italians should score?

And Im no expert but the Spanish did not impact south Italy or Sicily genetically.
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Well I got 17% Italian DaveF so really sometimes anything goes, everyone is different. There was history with Spain and south Italy with interaction, but still there is more Greek admixture relating to southern Italians. I would think there would be a little bit of Iberian in them
 
ASkepticalSpaniard said:
Hmm, interesting. What do you make of the SW European influence through my father's side? What gives there?

Also, what is the general consensus among the bioregional ancestry report done by Geno 2.0 through Helix? To my knowledge it's one of the most accurate tests out there. Any comment?
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My wife is half Italian and half UK with a lot of it coming from Naples. On FTDNA 2.0 she scores 32% Iberian so I don’t think you’re the only one with this issue.

Personally I’m not a big fan of the Helix test. I feel it’s similar to DNA Land which is free. I preferred the older Natgeo Next Generation test. If I were you I would run your raw data through some other free sites like DNA Land or Gencove to get a different opinion. Not sure though if Helix raw data is compatible with those sites which is another reason why I’m not a big fan.
 
La Rochelle, Aunis, Saintonge, Poitou are definitely NOT within the Occitan speaking area.

I'm from Auvergne, one of the northermost Occitan speaking areas. Not exactly south west France, but southern half for sure. I didn't do Geno 2.0. But on Eurogenes K36, I get 22.18 Iberian, 27.28 Italian, 4.99 Basque, and 3.73 West Med, the rest being more northern (mostly British Isles, some Fennoscandian and East Euro). With DNA Land : South Central Euro (ie basically, northern Italy) 28% Southwestern 21% (Iberia 19 + Sardinia 2). Gencove : Northern Italy 26% Southwestern 17%. I guess these figures will increase the further south-west you get (Basque Country excepted).

You might be interested by this little programme someone suggested in another thread : http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm You do the GEDmatch Eurogenes K36 first, then you type your results, and you get a ratio of proximity with the rest of Europe, and other places around the world. On that programme, my son-in-law, born on the Minho/Galicia border, gets his highest proximity score in... Auvergne. Yes, there seems to be a fair share of DNA that's common to Iberia and SW France.
 
hrvclv said:
La Rochelle, Aunis, Saintonge, Poitou are definitely NOT within the Occitan speaking area.

I'm from Auvergne, one of the northermost Occitan speaking areas. Not exactly south west France, but southern half for sure. I didn't do Geno 2.0. But on Eurogenes K36, I get 22.18 Iberian, 27.28 Italian, 4.99 Basque, and 3.73 West Med, the rest being more northern (mostly British Isles, some Fennoscandian and East Euro). With DNA Land : South Central Euro (ie basically, northern Italy) 28% Southwestern 21% (Iberia 19 + Sardinia 2). Gencove : Northern Italy 26% Southwestern 17%. I guess these figures will increase the further south-west you get (Basque Country excepted).

You might be interested by this little programme someone suggested in another thread : http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm You do the GEDmatch Eurogenes K36 first, then you type your results, and you get a ratio of proximity with the rest of Europe, and other places around the world. On that programme, my son-in-law, born on the Minho/Galicia border, gets his highest proximity score in... Auvergne. Yes, there seems to be a fair share of DNA that's common to Iberia and SW France.
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Have you done any of these tests: FTDNA, 23andMe, Ancestry, or Living DNA? I’m curious about what you scored with any of those tests?
 
hrvclv said:
La Rochelle, Aunis, Saintonge, Poitou are definitely NOT within the Occitan speaking area.

I'm from Auvergne, one of the northermost Occitan speaking areas. Not exactly south west France, but southern half for sure. I didn't do Geno 2.0. But on Eurogenes K36, I get 22.18 Iberian, 27.28 Italian, 4.99 Basque, and 3.73 West Med, the rest being more northern (mostly British Isles, some Fennoscandian and East Euro). With DNA Land : South Central Euro (ie basically, northern Italy) 28% Southwestern 21% (Iberia 19 + Sardinia 2). Gencove : Northern Italy 26% Southwestern 17%. I guess these figures will increase the further south-west you get (Basque Country excepted).

You might be interested by this little programme someone suggested in another thread : http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm You do the GEDmatch Eurogenes K36 first, then you type your results, and you get a ratio of proximity with the rest of Europe, and other places around the world. On that programme, my son-in-law, born on the Minho/Galicia border, gets his highest proximity score in... Auvergne. Yes, there seems to be a fair share of DNA that's common to Iberia and SW France.
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Why do say Basque Country excepted?

Also how do I use that program? I can't use my raw data because it's through helix unfortunately. Does that analyze my Y-DNA at all too?

And more importantly, when did the cultural split really occur between SW France and Iberia? Where in they had developed two unique different cultures, or were they always somewhat similar?

I guess, when you or your relatives speak Occitan dialect, do you feel more like Spaniards or like French people?
 
mwauthy said:
My wife is half Italian and half UK with a lot of it coming from Naples. On FTDNA 2.0 she scores 32% Iberian so I don’t think you’re the only one with this issue.

Personally I’m not a big fan of the Helix test. I feel it’s similar to DNA Land which is free. I preferred the older Natgeo Next Generation test. If I were you I would run your raw data through some other free sites like DNA Land or Gencove to get a different opinion. Not sure though if Helix raw data is compatible with those sites which is another reason why I’m not a big fan.
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Can't run it through because of helix like you said. Wish I could, or at the very least be able to read my raw data. Any help with that?

And what do you think is largely responsible for the Iberian contribution to Sicilian and Southern Italian genetics?

Lastly, I thought the new formula for autosomal testing for gene 2.0 was way better than the old test?
 
ASkepticalSpaniard said:
Can't run it through because of helix like you said. Wish I could, or at the very least be able to read my raw data. Any help with that?

And what do you think is largely responsible for the Iberian contribution to Sicilian and Southern Italian genetics?

Lastly, I thought the new formula for autosomal testing for gene 2.0 was way better than the old test?
Click to expand...

You need Eurogenes k36 info from Gedmatch in order to run the program in the previous text. I’m not sure if Gedmatch Genesis accepts Helix data. Part of the fun of ethnicity testing is running your raw data through all of these other free or cheap websites so you might want to consider purchasing another kit from another company in order to have raw data that is accepted.

I preferred the non Helix Next Generation test because it tested more snps.
 
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