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Thread: Is race just a social construct?

  1. #226
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    Here are some interviews from very prominent geneticists and their political views on race and immigration: Draw your own conclusions whether doing science should be a political activity.



    Reich:
    I think so. I know there are extremists who are interested in genealogy and genetics. But I think those are very marginal people, and there’s, of course, a concern they may impinge on the mainstream.
    But if you actually take any serious look at this data, it just confound severy stereotype. It’s revealing that the differences among populations we see today are actually only a few thousand years old at most and that everybody is mixed. I think that if you pay any attention to this world, and have any degree of seriousness, then you can’t come out feeling affirmed in the racist view of the world.You have to be more open to immigration. You have to be more open to the mixing of different peoples. That’s your own history.



    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/03/ancient-dna-history/554798/


    I'm quoting Alichu that has summed up a German Interview of Krause on another thread.

    In a recent Interview in a swiss magazine Krause drops some interesting facts. not everything is relevant for this discussion but i'll just sum up the whole interview a bit:


    -4.1-4.2 million differences in genome between 2 central europeans, only 4.3-4.4 million differences in genome between central european and person from Peking.

    -If we would meet an ancient Hunter Gatherer in european forests we would probably not be able to see a difference between him and modern Sub-Saharan Africans. their skin was very dark. except that they had blue or green eyes.

    -migrations were rarely completely peacefull but without migrations europe would not have gotten very far.

    -many who try to stop migration nowadays try to secure a success model that never worked without migration.

    -to create a replacement like the one from 5000 years ago, 100 million people from india or the near east would have to immigrate into switzerland.
    I found the fully interview here:

    Johannes
    Krause:"Racism created the concept of race in humans in the first place".

    From Frankfurter Rundschau - Archaeogeneticist Johannes Krause explains why we humans are much more alike than it may seem on the outside

    https://www.shh.mpg.de/1942662/dagnews2021

    Plus, the Max Planck Institute made an official declaration on their site to show their support and approval of BLM.
    https://www.shh.mpg.de/1794162/anti-...tement-mpi-shh

    JULY28, 2020

    The recent protests against police brutality and racism in the United States of America have galvanised people in anti-racism movements across Germany, Europe and beyond. We at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History want to make it clear that we stand together with the Black Lives Matter movement that is still tirelessly working for justice for the victims of police brutality,marginalisation, and embedded racist social, cultural, and economic structures.

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    He's either not as smart as I thought he was or he's a coward. Probably the latter.

    I'm not saying they should man the barricades, but at least keep silent.

    Reich exhibited a lot more guts.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    I know a lot of academics, personally. They all pay lipservice and cotow to the woke mob. But behind closed doors, some of them are very right-wing. Though some of them do believe in this religion.

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    I'm sure if you asked Russians what they thought of communism before the fall of the USSR, they would overwhelming "support" it. But like wokery, people are just afraid of the consequences. One day, fear isn't going to rule our lives anymore. The wheel keeps on turning, and the people facilitating this intimidation are going to find themselves in an ironic situation.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm waiting for our Chernobyl-event, a great catastrophe caused by choosing incompetent people for important tasks, just because they fit the ideological mold or from nepotism. But I think in the meantime we are seeing a slow decay, as we go down into the abyss. Ironically, it will be a communist country, China, that will surpass us. Because they are a civilization, not a shopping center.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I know a lot of academics, personally. They all pay lipservice and cotow to the woke mob. But behind closed doors, some of them are very right-wing. Though some of them do believe in this religion.
    Razib Khan has said the same.

    So, you have some cowards and a lot of "true believers", or vice versa; who knows. Like the Communists of the 20s and 30s and the Cultural Revolution Warriors of Mao's China or the Pol Pot monsters, it's all the same, with, of course, the right wing versions like the Nazis as well.

    Humanism isn't enough; some people need a fanatical belief system, a religion, as you say, which divides everyone into two groups: the "holy" us and the "evil" them who have to be destroyed to funnel all the rage and aggression from their sorry souls.

    Like the Communists of the 30s during the show trials or the fellow travelers in the west in the 50s and even 60s, and the unrepentant Nazis hiding in the shadows, facts, reality, can't touch them, nor logic. That's why discussion with them is useless. What has to be done is to apply to all those who haven't taken sides or who are just going along to save their jobs and social standing and get them to vote all of this into oblivion.

    It can start small. My local School Board had an election last year. Three spots were open and all three were filled by people against CRT. There's a new election in May for two spots and there's motivated, grass roots funded people running for the two spots. Then on to state representatives and then federal ones.

    This is what has to be done. People also have to vote with their wallets. No money to universities awash in this nonsense. No buying products from companies which have caved this way and on and on. It can be done and can happen just as quickly as the spread of WOKEDOM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    Here are some interviews from very prominent geneticists and their political views on race and immigration: Draw your own conclusions whether doing science should be a political activity.




    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/03/ancient-dna-history/554798/


    I'm quoting Alichu that has summed up a German Interview of Krause on another thread.


    I found the fully interview here:

    Johannes
    Krause:"Racism created the concept of race in humans in the first place".

    From Frankfurter Rundschau - Archaeogeneticist Johannes Krause explains why we humans are much more alike than it may seem on the outside

    https://www.shh.mpg.de/1942662/dagnews2021

    Plus, the Max Planck Institute made an official declaration on their site to show their support and approval of BLM.
    https://www.shh.mpg.de/1794162/anti-...tement-mpi-shh

    JULY28, 2020

    The recent protests against police brutality and racism in the United States of America have galvanised people in anti-racism movements across Germany, Europe and beyond. We at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History want to make it clear that we stand together with the Black Lives Matter movement that is still tirelessly working for justice for the victims of police brutality,marginalisation, and embedded racist social, cultural, and economic structures.

    Besides the fact that what they state I can agree with much (not everything) of it. But the main thing is politicizing scientific institutes. I don't think that is sensible.

    Especially in Germany with a politicizing of such institutes (see this from Ahnenerbe) before and during ww2 they should imo have known better.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis;639073[B
    ]I'm waiting for our Chernobyl-event, a great catastrophe [/B]caused by choosing incompetent people for important tasks, just because they fit the ideological mold or from nepotism. But I think in the meantime we are seeing a slow decay, as we go down into the abyss. Ironically, it will be a communist country, China, that will surpass us. Because they are a civilization, not a shopping center.
    You mean: You have to break eggs in order to make an omelet!?

    I'm definitely against that type of thinking, it brings mostly misery and in the end 'the incompetent people' are replaced by well 'incompetent people', because I don't know perfect people let alone perfect rulers....

    By the way may be despotic China will face some crisis too....

  9. #234
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^Wheel keeps on turning I guess. The circle of life and all. Though, the Han are too smart and discipline on average, at least at the moment, to decline anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    ^^Wheel keeps on turning I guess. The circle of life and all. Though, the Han are too smart and discipline on average, at least at the moment, to decline anytime soon.
    I have long speculated that wokery, especially as an online presence, with fake Twitter and Facebook bots, are a Chinese government initiative to disrupt order in the West. They're utilizing useful idiots abroad to facilitate their agenda to undermine our posterity, and vilify our past. Corporations are under the influence of Chinese wealth too. Lenin was right to say, the capitalists will sell us rope we will hang them with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I have long speculated that wokery, especially as an online presence, with fake Twitter and Facebook bots, are a Chinese government initiative to disrupt order in the West. They're utilizing useful idiots abroad to facilitate their agenda to undermine our posterity, and vilify our past. Corporations are under the influence of Chinese wealth too. Lenin was right to say, the capitalists will sell us rope we will hang them with.
    My reasoning for this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...uence-campaign

    "Twitter has removed more than 170,000 accounts the social media site says are state-linked influence campaigns from China focusing on Hong Kong protests, Covid-19 and the US protests in relation to George Floyd."

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    Russia is also involved:

    "Researchers say social media following the death of George Floyd is similar to a social media campaign from a Russian state group that manipulated the online discourse around the Black Lives Matter movement."

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...t-2020-6%3famp

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    Woke individuals are essentially assets of our foreign rivals. Ironically, these people would absolutely be abused in Russia and China. They would be put to death for conducting similar actions in those countries, no doubt.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Russia is also involved:
    "Researchers say social media following the death of George Floyd is similar to a social media campaign from a Russian state group that manipulated the online discourse around the Black Lives Matter movement."
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...t-2020-6%3famp
    Putin uses every way to destabilize Europe and the US. Some "right wing populist" are getting money from them....And although right wing populist play the own nationalistic cards and "defense", they are seldom critical towards Putin, why?

    Last week it was detected that some scientist of the University of Amsterdam were paid by the Chinese in fact to "promote other ways of looking at human rights" ahum....end of story, but most probably not end of the attempts from the Chinese side.
    Last edited by Northener; 23-01-22 at 21:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Besides the fact that what they state I can agree with much (not everything) of it. But the main thing is politicizing scientific institutes. I don't think that is sensible.

    Especially in Germany with a politicizing of such institutes (see this from Ahnenerbe) before and during ww2 they should imo have known better.....

    What exactly do you agree with? Do you think that race isn't real? Do you support BLM, their narrative about white privilege, and that the USA is a white supremacist hell? Do you embrace replacement migration?


    I want to be sure about your point in order to respond to your comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    What exactly do you agree with? Do you think that race isn't real? Do you support BLM, their narrative about white privilege, and that the USA is a white supremacist hell? Do you embrace replacement migration?


    I want to be sure about your point in order to respond to your comment.
    Like I said I sincerely believe race is in the end a social construct, is not a given thing. In different parts of the world we got different racial definitions, so that is imo a sign that it's not a given thing.

    I don't think an institute like the Max Planck has to give such declarations of support of BLM (nor the proud boys nor....fill in). That's too political imo, they are a scientific institute, no think tank or something like that.

    For the rest I hang on to a certain "color blindness". Alt right and BLM do mirror each other imo. I support emancipation movements but that has imo "no color" good education, good houses etc and is imo not a matter of race.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_...lassification)
    Last edited by Northener; 25-01-22 at 10:34.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    What exactly do you agree with? Do you think that race isn't real? Do you support BLM, their narrative about white privilege, and that the USA is a white supremacist hell? Do you embrace replacement migration?


    I want to be sure about your point in order to respond to your comment.
    where did they talk about replacement migration? sure, every migration will lead to mixture, but that should not be a reason to be against migration. sadly this is still the case for many people and those are adressed by Reich.

    and also Krauses points against race are valid. i've already asked several times. i would really like to hear from people what trait differentiates human races so clearly that we can speak of them as races in a purely biological sense? as Krause said the additional difference between racial groups is extremely small compared to the differences that already exist within those groups. and then there is also the thing with the gradients and the difficulty to draw the borders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I have long speculated that wokery, especially as an online presence, with fake Twitter and Facebook bots, are a Chinese government initiative to disrupt order in the West. They're utilizing useful idiots abroad to facilitate their agenda to undermine our posterity, and vilify our past. Corporations are under the influence of Chinese wealth too. Lenin was right to say, the capitalists will sell us rope we will hang them with.
    Interesting thing to watch about this is Yuri Bezmenov.

    https://odysee.com/@Roxy-Stellar:2/i...-yuri-bezmenov

    Can't find the short clip on YouTube anymore for some reason, the hour long interview is still up though.

    He's a KGB defector from USSR who worked on subversion of India, but fell in love with some Indian girl so decided to flee to America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis
    Woke individuals are essentially assets of our foreign rivals. Ironically, these people would absolutely be abused in Russia and China. They would be put to death for conducting similar actions in those countries, no doubt.

    Hm.
    You made the same quote as he did.

    “[T]he useful idiots, the leftists who are idealistically believing in the beauty of the Soviet socialist or Communist or whatever system, when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made the point: never bother with leftists. Forget about these political prostitutes. Aim higher. [...] They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your leftists in the United States: all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders. They are instrumental in the process of the subversion only to destabilize a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed any more. They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned, when they see that Marxist-Leninists come to power—obviously they get offended—they think that they will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They will be lined up against the wall and shot.”

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