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Thread: Sumerians and Native Americans could be related?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Just a visual observation. Sumerians are often depicted as been very Hairy with elaborate long Beards (Annunaki).
    I know that the Native Americans not having facial hairs is a myth, but they are not as Hairy at all if compared to the Sumerians.
    i think they are not sumerians. these pictures get from akkadians. and sumerian civilization so long time years. they are get mixed other native peoples of messopotamia. (think about turkey turks, our origin ancestors are hairless bu we are so hairy now)
    and i can find two group pictures on the internet similar with akkadians and hairless bald head peoples with donkeys.
    i dont know which is real sumerian pictures but i agree native american and asians are hairless (except for ainus) also these statues dont connected with turkic peoples. only language.
    i think we must be focused about language for who are they and where come from. language clearly says they are come from asia. but which area of asia. central asia? south asia? who have more connected with language? tibetans, turkic, uralic, japanese or korean there is no more choice. i think high possibility is turkic or tibetans.
    maybe they are lost form of altaic people ancestors language. i have a theory about japanese,korean,uralic peoples effected by tibets and turkic peoples effected by mongolians for languages. (this is a reason why we cant create clear altaic language family today. for me) they are earlier peoples of asia.
    i think maybe sumerian peoples speaking isolated proto altaic language.(ancestor of chinese,korean,japanese,uralic,turkic)
    because we can see similarities with that all languages.
    Last edited by XipeTotek; 01-04-18 at 07:47.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Just a visual observation. Sumerians are often depicted as been very Hairy with elaborate long Beards (Annunaki).
    I know that the Native Americans not having facial hairs is a myth, but they are not as Hairy at all if compared to the Sumerians.
    you cant say today turkey turks are not hairy. but their ancestors and original turks are come from central asians and they are hairless.

    also sumerians and akkadians have so much mixed in 3000 years. and turkey peoples only in 1000 years mixed with anatolian and arab peoples.

    but today we know our languages come from central asia like a sumerians.

    and that anunnaki pictures looking like akkadians.

    edit : i again answer it sorry lol

  3. #28
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    language similarity about father/mother words with turkic/native american. also sumerian. http://www.turkishculture.org/litera...ricans-459.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdTerm View Post

    Figure 2
    Phylogeny of Y-chromosome haplogroups and their frequencies (%) in Marsh Arab and Iraqi populations.

    Al Zahery et al. (2011) investigated the issue of the origin of Marsh Arabs, who are presumed to be the descendants of the ancient Sumerians. Their mtDNA and Y chromosome haplogroups showed that Marsh Arabs are predominantly of Middle Eastern origin, thus refuting the theory that Marsh Arabs are recent migrants from the Indian sub-continent. Haplogroup Q was found at minor frequencies from 0.7% to 2.1% among Marsh Arabs (Figure 2) and haplogroup Q-M25 (0.7%) and haplogroup Q-M378 (2.1%) are descendant haplogroups of Q-M242, which is a very common Y-DNA haplogroup among Native Americans (92.3% in Navajo.)
    i think sumerians are q mixed r hablogroups. later they mixed native peoples. that map show to me.

    and their language more close to turkic/native american languages.

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    Sumerians , elamites were blacks

    The sumerians were not so hairy as we think , it is a scientific superstition linked to the fact some scientist don' t accept sumerians were blacks
    hair in sumerian is kezer, kes similar to dravidian kes as in Keshava the name of Krishna ( the long haired ones)
    sumerians rather said they are sag gig ga where sag means person , head and is translated by qaqqadu whichmeans person , head , self in akkadian, ga means people as people to pasture, calf as in sipa sag gig ga the name of the god of the sky An : the shepherd of the sag gig ga so sumerians were comparing themselves to calfs of the supreme god An but black calfs as sag means both head and person and ga calf

    remember they say they are sag gig ga black heads which means zalmat qaqqadu in akkadian the same translation the adamu race the first and the black race in sumerian tales: black people
    also the bible said the first mesopotamians were blacks: Nimrod is black and his people and him founded the first cities of Mesopotamia Knowing sumerians were the first people to mesopotamia and they call themselves sag gig ga which means zalmat qaqqadu black people who is the same sense the adamu race the blkack race in sumerian tales
    Also greeks divide blacks in two categories the african ethiopians and the asian ones which have long hairs and it is said by Hellanicus that these ones inhabit euphrate’s valey where lies Sumer: we can deduce sumerians were blacks what is corroborated by the map of AASI gene(dravidians and veddoids genes both map) that show irak was peopled by AASI who are famed to be black see qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8a1e2300d2869577d4ed9ae64e0898d3
    Last edited by adian808; 06-10-21 at 16:35.

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    Historically, as a timeline, there is absolutely no likelihood of such a direct link, especially a genetic one. Turkish has a huge number of Arabic and Persian borrowings, as well as some Indo-European ones (because I noticed some) from where the indirect connection comes from. So the similarities are due to the ethnic groups that inhabited the Mesopotamian region during the Sumerian period.
    In simple terms, the Sumerians and the Turks are separated by thousands of years of difference / discrepancy in the formation of ethnicity and language.

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    There is no Sumerian sample available today but early Neolithic samples from the eastern Fertile Crescent in the Zagros Mountains:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27417496/

    It is likely that those people where a part of the Sumerian ancestry.

    They had a broad and also long face, flat, narrow forehead. A slim, long, hooked nose. They had broad lips, a large mouth. Brown eyes, brown skin, wavy to curly hair.

    Comparing their genetically determined physical traits to mentioned populations and some others:

    Northern South Asian 73%
    All African Populations 70% European 70% Neanderthal 70%
    Middle East 69% Andaman 69%
    Bantu 66%
    Papuan 65%
    Aboriginal Australian 62%
    Native American 61%
    Turkish 58%
    Malawi Mesolithic 52%

    They looked somehow African but also large part Northern South Asian, which includes Afghans, Pakistani and Northern Indians. I think the African component is of archaic origin, because Neanderthal is also high but not Bantu and Malawi Mesolithic.
    There is no connection to Native Americans in optical traits or Turkish people.

    And we should not forget that Sumerian Empire was established 2000-3000 years after this population lived in the region. Much genetic replacement could have taken place, perhaps from the Middle East and Eastern Mediterranean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggerland View Post
    There is no Sumerian sample available today but early Neolithic samples from the eastern Fertile Crescent in the Zagros Mountains:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27417496/

    It is likely that those people where a part of the Sumerian ancestry.

    They had a broad and also long face, flat, narrow forehead. A slim, long, hooked nose. They had broad lips, a large mouth. Brown eyes, brown skin, wavy to curly hair.

    Comparing their genetically determined physical traits to mentioned populations and some others:

    Northern South Asian 73%
    All African Populations 70% European 70% Neanderthal 70%
    Middle East 69% Andaman 69%
    Bantu 66%
    Papuan 65%
    Aboriginal Australian 62%
    Native American 61%
    Turkish 58%
    Malawi Mesolithic 52%

    They looked somehow African but also large part Northern South Asian, which includes Afghans, Pakistani and Northern Indians. I think the African component is of archaic origin, because Neanderthal is also high but not Bantu and Malawi Mesolithic.
    There is no connection to Native Americans in optical traits or Turkish people.

    And we should not forget that Sumerian Empire was established 2000-3000 years after this population lived in the region. Much genetic replacement could have taken place, perhaps from the Middle East and Eastern Mediterranean.
    As far as I know, they did not have hooked noses. So anthropologist really don't know where sumerian nose like armenian nose came from.

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    That's not my opinion, that's what genetics of the samples say:

    rs4787778 AA Hooked nose
    rs2058742 GG Downturned nose tip
    rs17640804 TT Slim nostrils
    rs3751074 GG Long nose bridge

    The Sumerians liked to portray themselves with those noses:

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/323735
    https://www.discovermagazine.com/pla...they-known-for

    So in this case art and genetics are matching, as far that those early neolithic samples are a main part of the Sumerian ancestry.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Is this an Apricity thread that's lost its way?

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    Sumerians , elamites were blacks

    earlier scientists of 19 th century can' t accept sumerians were blacks and said they were eurafrican people with a nose intermediary between those of africans and those of europeans, they also think sumerians were from australoid families but racism bias make them say sumerians were black red turanians
    somesay they are ancestorsof ugrian langages with proof
    but the truth show sumerians were australoid peoples:
    the analysis of sumerian bones show thay are australoids
    According to many experts, the Al-Ubaid people were ancestral to the Sumerians, or at least, to their culture. The Al-Ubaid skulls show a chaemaerrhine index with a mean value of 49.2. In other words, they had very broad noses. The skulls had both subnasal and alveolar prognathism, or fullness of the lower and upper lips. The average linear projection was 8 mm. for the skulls. Their heads were long and narrow.
    Buxton and Rice found that of 26 Sumerian crania 17 were Australoid, five Austrics and four Armenoid. According to Penniman who studied skulls from Kish and other Sumerian sites, these three: the Australoid (Eurafrican), Austric and Armenoid were the "racial" types associated with the Sumerians. Here is Penniman's description of the Austric type found at Sumer:
    "These people are of medium stature, with complexion and
    hair like those of the Eurafrican, to which race they are
    allied, dark eyes, and oval faces. They have small ill-filled
    dolichocephalic skulls, with browridges poorly developed or
    absent, bulging occiputs, orbits usually horizontal ellipses,
    broad noses, rather feeble jaws, and slight sinewy bodies."

    Both the Australoid and Austric type are found in India, where the former is known as Dravidian in its less extreme variety. Like all the different populations of India, both Dravidian and Austric are long-headed like most of the skulls at Sumer. As one goes further East, Austrics become mostly round-headed due possibly to the greater proportion of Mongoloid blood, and the Austronesians of the South Seas are primarily round-headed. Formerly, it was popular to ascribe the Australoid and Austric types to "dark Caucasoid" origin in the Mediterranean area

    from a nationalist iranian pro shah site azargoshnasp.net seek recent_history/pan_turkist_philosophy/sumd/austricsumerian

    BUT when we blacks say this people qualify us afrocentricists !!!!
    for example this wikipedia wikipedia.org seek K 3364 which forget scientists have discovered bones and skulls closed to australoids proving sumerians were blacks but australoids and say sumerians are not negroid
    i use this stage also to say negroid is a racist term coming from negre/ nigger the way blacks were called from 15th to 20 th centuries and it keeps on producing bias: like blacks have big nose stuff
    i notice ASI/AASI and melanesians and australian aborigines who according to experts come from africa ( M haplogroups from african horn L3) are considered as blacks but not called like this
    i think both them and africans are blacks and are brothers and should be both called melanoid instead of african blacks called negroid

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    Also noticed close similarities between tamil and sumerians
    THE SUMERIAN AND THE TAMOUL ur = city, town, village in Tamil, ur = town, town in Sumerian as = one, alone in Sumerian, as = prime / one, alone in Tamil kur = mountain in Sumerian, kur = name of hill tribes in Tamil and Dravidian, kori / koeum = mountain in Altaic language. tamil arukan arhus Sumerian "benevolent person". Tamil Sumerian avvai. the abbot "speaks". Tamil aakkiNai, aaNai, Sumerian aknja agga, aga "command". Sumerian eye akki igi. Tamil Ukkiram Sumerian ug-gu "furious". Tamil Uruttiran 'Copper' Sumerian Urudu. Ukrainian Sumerian Ulaku, Ukrainian "people". Sumerian Katai ka-ta-a-a "desired self-expression". Tamil Karumam Sumerian gar-u "to set up". Sumerian Tamil Carvam sar-ra "all". Tamil cakkaram sukur Sumerian 'weapon, javelin'. Tamil Sumerian cakalam 'all' sugil. Tamil cettu, Sumerian cittam sid, sed, think, count, recite etc. Tamil ceesu ciidan, Sumerian ses Tamil sisya his "brother, child". Sumerian damhara Tamil tamharam 'battle, war' Tamil ticai Sumerian. te 'direction, Sumerian woman manuci tamil manusi'. Tamil ciivan Sumerian zi 'life' Tamil caalai Sumerian sila 'road' Tamil kaNi, kaNitam Sumerian kin 'to reckon'.
    and between tamil and turkish:Affinity between DRAVIDIAN and TURKISH
    1. Dravidian (Dr.): AN upper part;

    Turkish (Tr.) "AN" meaning "sky" as in "TANRI" meaning "GOD" from
    "aTa + AN + ERI" (ATA AN ERI) meaning "Father Man of Sky".

    2. Dr. ANNAL greatness, exaltation, superiority, great man, king, god;

    Tr. "HAN AN AL" meaning "Lord Sky Red" referring to sun god. Tr. HAN king.

    3. Dr. ENRU the sun;

    Tr. TANRU god, sun god.

    4. Dr. ADDI heat of the sun;

    Tr. ODDI "it is hot", "it is fire"

    5a. Dr, ACCAN father, lord; ACCA mother;

    Tr. ECHE father, mother; ECHE HAN lord father, lord mother.

    5b) Dr. AJJA grandfather; AJJI grandmother.

    Tr. ECHE greatfather or greatmother, that is, for the elder and/or
    head person of the house.; it is a duality term which can be used for
    both man and women leader of the family. For example, Tr. TANRIÇE
    (goddess) is from "TANRI ECHE" (god greatmother).

    6. Dr. PULLI, PULLE, BOLLE mark, dot, speck, spot.

    Tr. PULLU meaning with specks, dots,. marks.

    7. Dr. (Tu.) KAR-BULE, KAR-BOLLE a fowl having white plumage with
    black spots.

    Tr. KARA PULLU meaning "with black spots, specks".

    8. Dr. (Ta.) ARAM moral or religious duty, virtue;

    Tr. AR virtue, modesty, honesty, bashful, chaste.

    9. Dr. (Ta.) KATA cut through ridge of paddy-field to let surplus
    water run off;

    Tr. AKIT meaning "to let the water run off".

    10. Dr. (Ta.) KATA inferior, worse than;

    Tr. KÖTÜ bad, inferior, poor in quality.

    11a. Dr. (Ta.) IRAI anyone who is great (as one's father or guru or
    any renowned and illustrious person), master, chief, elder brother,
    husband, king, supreme god, height, head, eminence;

    Tr. ER man, husband, hero, warrior, soldier.
    Tr. ERAY moon-man, moon-god, venerable person.

    11b. Dr. IRAIMAI kingly superiority, celebrity, government,
    divinity;

    Tr. "ER AY MA" meaning "magnificent moon man" referring to a divinity
    or a superiority.

    11c. Dr. IRAIVAN god, chief, master, husband, venerable person;

    Tr. "ER AY-HAN" meaning "Man Moon-Lord" (god), lord man, head man.

    12. Dr. (Ta.) ARU (ARI-) state of being dried, etc.;

    Tr. KURU dry, dried up.

    13. Dr. ARISU to cause to go out, allay, dry (tr.);

    Tr. KURUSU dried up water.

    14. Dr. AR (ART-) to be dried, dry up, disappear;

    Tr. ERI- to melt away, to disappear as in snow melting and
    disappearing.

    15. Dr. ARIKE state of growing or being dry or parched;

    Tr. ARIK channel, channel cut to dry up a watery land.

    16. Dr. (Ta.) KANAL (kanalv-, kananr-) sun, heat, sun's ray, light;

    Tr. KUN (GÜN) sun; KUN AL (AL GÜN) red hot sun, hot sun.

    17. Dr. KANI (-v-,-nt-) to be redhot, glow, get angry;

    Tr. a) KUN (GÜN) sun, b) KAN blood, blood colour; c) KAN OL becoming
    blood red as one gets angry ( Turkish "Yüzü KAN GIBI OLMAK" meaning
    "face gettin very red when angry").

    18. Dr. KANARCI heat, glow, anger;

    Tr. KIZARAN glowing red hot, and also face getting red when one gets
    angry.

    19. Dr. (Ta.) KARU black;

    Tr. KARA black.

    20. Dr. KARUKKAL darkness, twilight, cloudiness;

    Tr. KARA GOK dark sky; KARANLUK darkness.

    21. Dr. (Ta.) KARU sunburnt paddy crop;
    KARUKKU (karukki-) to darken by heat, burn, scorch, toast, fry;
    KARUKU (karuki-) to be scorched, blackened by fire or sun;

    Tr. KURAKLUK drought, causing burned out crop by sun. KURU dry.

    22. Dr. (Ta.) APPAN, APPU father;

    Tr. BABA, APA father

    23. Dr. APPACCI father;

    Tr. BABACIK dear father, endearnment of father.

    24. Dr. APPATTAI elder sister;

    Tr. APLA / ABLA elder sister.

    25. Dr. (Ta.) ATTAN father, elder, person of rank or eminence;

    Tr. ATA father, ATA HAN lord father, elder person of rank or eminence;

    26. Dr. ATTISU to cause to evaporate by boiling;

    Tr. ATTI SU (SU ATTI) threw away its water, evaporated.

    27. Dr. ANTARISU to evaporate, as water by boiling;

    Tr. SUYUNI ATAR it throws away its water, it evaporates.

    28. Dr. (To.) POT mountain (esp. tit pot id.).

    Tr. "TEPE hill;

    29. Dr. (Ka.) BETTA, BETTU big hill, mountain;

    Tr. TEPETU "it is hill, it is mountain".

    30. Dr. (Te.) AMMA, AMA mother, matron; hon. title of woman;

    Tr. ANA, ANNA, ANNE mother; MAMA, MEME mother, mother's breast.

    31. Dr. (To.) UF IN- (ID-) to blow, blow away (e.g. ashes);

    Tr. ÜFLEMEK to blow, blow away.

    32. Dr. (Ka.) UPH, UPHI sound emitted when strongly blowing with the
    mouth to remove impurities;

    Tr. ÜFLEMEK (ISLIK) to blow whisle.

    33. Dr. (Ta.) IYANKU (IYANKI-) to move, stir, go, proceed, walk about;
    in.movement, act of going;

    Tr. "UYANUK" being awake, moving, stirring, going. Almost identical.

    34. Dr. (Ta. ) TIRAGANI, TIRAGANE, TIRUGANI, TIRUGANE, TIRUGUNI
    turning, that which turns, a wheel for raising water;

    Tr. TONERGAN (dönergen) that which turns, that which returns.

    Note: It seems that the Dravidian suffixes -LI and -CI are very
    similar to Turkish -LI and -CI.


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    also ala is land in tamil, ugrian and mayan, kerala is land of coconut in tamil, karjala is name of carelia in carelian korela , guatem ala is land of light in mayan
    el is land in turkish and in ugrian; MARI EL is the name of the republic of maris in Russia,, el/eli is land in turkish, ola is city in Mari cf yoshkar ola the capital of mari el, ollam is land in Taos a native american langage, olam is land in hebrew whose scripture come from sumerian, ilim is land in sumerian, ala, alam, eelam is land in dravidian tamil, elam is land in elamite ...
    THE SUMERIAN , TAMILand native american and turkish and ugrian cognate !!!!!!!
    knowing the preesistence of AASI /ASI in asia and their link with sumerian and their links with turkish and native americans we can say ASI ans AASI blacks fellow influenced langage of turanians the ancestry of native americans...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggerland View Post
    There is no Sumerian sample available today but early Neolithic samples from the eastern Fertile Crescent in the Zagros Mountains:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27417496/

    It is likely that those people where a part of the Sumerian ancestry.

    They had a broad and also long face, flat, narrow forehead. A slim, long, hooked nose. They had broad lips, a large mouth. Brown eyes, brown skin, wavy to curly hair.

    Comparing their genetically determined physical traits to mentioned populations and some others:

    Northern South Asian 73%
    All African Populations 70% European 70% Neanderthal 70%
    Middle East 69% Andaman 69%
    Bantu 66%
    Papuan 65%
    Aboriginal Australian 62%
    Native American 61%
    Turkish 58%
    Malawi Mesolithic 52%

    They looked somehow African but also large part Northern South Asian, which includes Afghans, Pakistani and Northern Indians. I think the African component is of archaic origin, because Neanderthal is also high but not Bantu and Malawi Mesolithic.
    There is no connection to Native Americans in optical traits or Turkish people.

    And we should not forget that Sumerian Empire was established 2000-3000 years after this population lived in the region. Much genetic replacement could have taken place, perhaps from the Middle East and Eastern Mediterranean.

    the look you describe (above the list of percentages of common traits) doesn't evoke something typically African (SSA).
    and I don't see on what they can produce these curious percentages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    the look you describe (above the list of percentages of common traits) doesn't evoke something typically African (SSA).
    and I don't see on what they can produce these curious percentages.
    No, they dont look typical African. But they had many optical traits that they share with all African populations and Neanderthals. But like I said, I think its Archaic because Bantu(Samples are from West Africa) and Malawi Mesolithic is not high.
    The percentages are the result of comparing the alleles of the SNPs for traits between the populations. Same alleles, match 1. Only 1 allele, half match 1/2. No allele matching, no match 0. The curious percentages are produced, because humans of different populations share many alleles. I cannot stop them from doing this ;) The Percentages are rounded up. So if two populations are 65% it could be in fact that one population is 64,7 and one 65.

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    Come back when there is a whole bunch of samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    the look you describe (above the list of percentages of common traits) doesn't evoke something typically African (SSA).
    and I don't see on what they can produce these curious percentages.
    Thanks for answer.
    Question: how many phenotypical alleles have been analysed on how many people in every pop?

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    Glup! I answered to myself when I was thinking I was doing it to Doggerland. Sorry Doggerland!

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    Quote Originally Posted by adian808 View Post
    earlier scientists of 19 th century can' t accept sumerians were blacks and said they were eurafrican people with a nose intermediary between those of africans and those of europeans, they also think sumerians were from australoid families but racism bias make them say sumerians were black red turanians
    somesay they are ancestorsof ugrian langages with proof
    but the truth show sumerians were australoid peoples:
    the analysis of sumerian bones show thay are australoids
    According to many experts, the Al-Ubaid people were ancestral to the Sumerians, or at least, to their culture. The Al-Ubaid skulls show a chaemaerrhine index with a mean value of 49.2. In other words, they had very broad noses. The skulls had both subnasal and alveolar prognathism, or fullness of the lower and upper lips. The average linear projection was 8 mm. for the skulls. Their heads were long and narrow.
    Buxton and Rice found that of 26 Sumerian crania 17 were Australoid, five Austrics and four Armenoid. According to Penniman who studied skulls from Kish and other Sumerian sites, these three: the Australoid (Eurafrican), Austric and Armenoid were the "racial" types associated with the Sumerians. Here is Penniman's description of the Austric type found at Sumer:
    "These people are of medium stature, with complexion and
    hair like those of the Eurafrican, to which race they are
    allied, dark eyes, and oval faces. They have small ill-filled
    dolichocephalic skulls, with browridges poorly developed or
    absent, bulging occiputs, orbits usually horizontal ellipses,
    broad noses, rather feeble jaws, and slight sinewy bodies."

    Both the Australoid and Austric type are found in India, where the former is known as Dravidian in its less extreme variety. Like all the different populations of India, both Dravidian and Austric are long-headed like most of the skulls at Sumer. As one goes further East, Austrics become mostly round-headed due possibly to the greater proportion of Mongoloid blood, and the Austronesians of the South Seas are primarily round-headed. Formerly, it was popular to ascribe the Australoid and Austric types to "dark Caucasoid" origin in the Mediterranean area

    from a nationalist iranian pro shah site azargoshnasp.net seek recent_history/pan_turkist_philosophy/sumd/austricsumerian

    BUT when we blacks say this people qualify us afrocentricists !!!!
    for example this wikipedia wikipedia.org seek K 3364 which forget scientists have discovered bones and skulls closed to australoids proving sumerians were blacks but australoids and say sumerians are not negroid
    i use this stage also to say negroid is a racist term coming from negre/ nigger the way blacks were called from 15th to 20 th centuries and it keeps on producing bias: like blacks have big nose stuff
    i notice ASI/AASI and melanesians and australian aborigines who according to experts come from africa ( M haplogroups from african horn L3) are considered as blacks but not called like this
    i think both them and africans are blacks and are brothers and should be both called melanoid instead of african blacks called negroid
    The linguistic aspect of the thread is the most interesting one. The phenotypic aspect is very confuse in your post, and in your place I would not put too much faith in the ancient anthropologists works or I 'd try to distinct between the more or less serious ones and the strictly un reliable ones. BTW we are all cousins spite different and the term 'negroid' has nothing racist in it: it is based on Latin 'niger' which gave the French 'noir' in north and 'nègre' in south (Occitan) and 'negro' in Spanish, not based on 'nigger' which is an evolutive form of the same roots but took over centuries a contempt colour in the Anglo-Saxon word. It seems we all Eurasians are come from Africa, and you are not obliged to search more close cousins in some Asia dark populations; it's more complicated, and proximity is not tied only to external features so it isn't useful to construct some kind of affective feelings based on all that (your "brothers").
    &: for an anthropologist, 'melanoid' is not sufficient (blackish skin), so you need an epithet (African melanoid and Asian melanoid) terms you can use if you want; personally when I say 'negroid' I think 'African melanoid', not 'nigger'. No offense, that said.

  20. #45
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    THE SUMERIAN AND THE TAMOUL ur = city, town, village in Tamil, ur = town, town in Sumerian as = one, alone in Sumerian, as = prime / one, alone in Tamil kur = mountain in Sumerian, kur = name of hill tribes in Tamil and Dravidian, kori / koeum = mountain in Altaic language. tamil arukan arhus Sumerian "benevolent person".
    Tamil tribes carry Q-M242 at 6%-8%. The Marsh Arabs (2%) are considered the population with the strongest link to ancient Sumerians. The diversity of sub-lineages of Q-M242 before 15.3 kya resulted from the differentiation of Q-M242 in South Siberia since the Paleolithic Age. The appearance of the Paleo-Indian population is part of the great human diffusion throughout the Eurasia after the Last Glacial Maximum. The Tamils and the Marsh Arabs are partly descendants of the Paleo-Indian population from South Siberia.
    Давайте вместе снова сделаем мир великий!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdTerm View Post
    Tamil tribes carry Q-M242 at 6%-8%. The Marsh Arabs (2%) are considered the population with the strongest link to ancient Sumerians. The diversity of sub-lineages of Q-M242 before 15.3 kya resulted from the differentiation of Q-M242 in South Siberia since the Paleolithic Age. The appearance of the Paleo-Indian population is part of the great human diffusion throughout the Eurasia after the Last Glacial Maximum. The Tamils and the Marsh Arabs are partly descendants of the Paleo-Indian population from South Siberia.
    Probably that Q-M242 is related with neolithic WSHG who migrated into IVC. Both language similarity also seems to be with WSHG migration.

    "The Japanese professor Tsutomu Kambe claimed to have found more than 500 similar words about agriculture between Tamil and Japanese in 2011"

    "Comparative linguist Kang Gil-un identifies 1300 Dravidian Tamil cognates in Korean. He suggests that Korean is probably related to the Nivkh language and influenced by Tamil.[17]"

    - american indian admixture in Iran territory:



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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Thanks for answer.
    Question: how many phenotypical alleles have been analysed on how many people in every pop?
    80alleles.
    Face bone morphology 11
    Ear morphology 8
    Mouth morphology 7
    Eye morphology 5
    Nose morphology 7
    Teeth morphology 5
    Skull morphology 5
    Eye color 19
    Skin color 4
    Hair morphology 2
    Hand and arm morphology 3
    Spine and torso 3
    Height1

    Some SNPs have an influence on more then one trait.
    All can be found at GWAS Catalog and studies on the internet.

    I only use alleles which are ethnically different in today's population. The reason for this is following: Not every population has samples that provide all 80 SNPs. When you compare SNPs that have in every population almost over 90% the same alleles, this would enhance the percentage for traits which are similar in every human population and that would not help to see differences, but enhance the percentage of similarity in incomplete samples, when they are rich in them.

    The minimal SNPs that a (final) sample must provide is 40.
    Forthat reason there is no Afontova Gora, Yana, Salkhit, Ofnet and many others. They all lacking too many SNPs.

    For modern populations that are available on the internet like on NCBI i use the average alleles of the population for comparison.

    For example:

    The value for rs1235789 in the default population is A 0.5 T 0.5 so the allele will be AT
    The value for rs1235789 in the default population is A 0.8 T 0.2 so the allele will be AA

    For populations that are not to find open on the Internet I use Human Genome Project samples or the ones that can be found in the European Nucleotide Archive.
    When it comes to ancient samples some are very good and provide all SNPs I need, but in general they are rare and often of poor quality/low in SNPs for traits.
    I merge them into one by using the “Jurassic Park” method: I fill the gaps with SNPs of another individual of the same population, so a sample for comparison will consist of many individuals of the same population.

    When there is more then one sample of a population which provides the SNPs I need, I consider to use the heterozygote variations, if they are present.

    For example: Yamnaya induvidual 1 has rs123456 AA and Yamnaya individual 2 has rs123456 TT. I this case I use AT for that SNP because is is likely, that both variations existed in the population.

    When many samples are available (which is normally not the chase) it would be needed to calculate this different:

    9 Individuals have AA and only one has TT, AA will be the chosen alleles becauseit is unlikely that TT is the typical one, or AT.

    I don’t use outliers if they where identified by a study or hobby anthropologist. For people who dont know what that is: A individual which has a very different ancestry admixture to the rest of the population.

  23. #48
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdTerm View Post

    Figure 2
    Phylogeny of Y-chromosome haplogroups and their frequencies (%) in Marsh Arab and Iraqi populations.
    Al Zahery et al. (2011) investigated the issue of the origin of Marsh Arabs, who are presumed to be the descendants of the ancient Sumerians. Their mtDNA and Y chromosome haplogroups showed that Marsh Arabs are predominantly of Middle Eastern origin, thus refuting the theory that Marsh Arabs are recent migrants from the Indian sub-continent. Haplogroup Q was found at minor frequencies from 0.7% to 2.1% among Marsh Arabs (Figure 2) and haplogroup Q-M25 (0.7%) and haplogroup Q-M378 (2.1%) are descendant haplogroups of Q-M242, which is a very common Y-DNA haplogroup among Native Americans (92.3% in Navajo.)
    So only 2.8% Q
    Thats low %
    If anything we need to look more
    On the dominant y haplogroup
    In this case j1 80% thats huge...

    P.s
    I don't think they are descendents of sumerians
    They might be groups of arabic and bedouin tribes
    Who settled at some point in marsh area in iraq
    Last edited by kingjohn; 09-10-21 at 07:28.
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    They seems to be brutal w/o mercy:



    The Great Death Pit: PG1237, with its 74 attendants, was the most spectacular of Ur’s royal tombs. Woolley called any burial without a tomb chamber a "death pit”. He named PG1237 “The Great Death Pit" because of the many bodies that were found within it. http://sumerianshakespeare.com/117701/117801.html

    the royal tombs at ur have been long famous for their chilling scenario of young soldiers and courtesans who loyally took poison to die with their mistress. the authors investigate two of the original skulls with ct scans and propose a procedure no less chilling, but more enforceable. the victims were participants in an elaborate funerary ritual during which they were felled with a sharp instrument, heated, embalmed with mercury, dressed and laid ceremonially in rows.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    They seems to be brutal w/o mercy:



    The Great Death Pit: PG1237, with its 74 attendants, was the most spectacular of Ur’s royal tombs. Woolley called any burial without a tomb chamber a "death pit”. He named PG1237 “The Great Death Pit" because of the many bodies that were found within it. http://sumerianshakespeare.com/117701/117801.html

    thats interesting
    i think we can get some idea what were the main haplogroups
    in mesopotamia
    by this future paper :

    Altınışık N. Ezgi et al. First Genomic Insights into Pre-pottery Neolithic of Upper Mesopotamia

    p.s
    it is before the sumerian period but that can still give something to the puzzle

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