Central and South Asian DNA Paper

The core structure of the language of course wouldn't "mix", unless PIE were a creole, but it definitely has no characteristics of a true creole.

But all that process would've happened thousands of years BEFORE the PIE expansion, in the very beginning, so there was more than enough time for growing complexity and innovations in PIE - and in fact if you consider the Anatolian IE branch "archaic", that is, more conservative and not full of simplifying innovations, it does seem like the language of Indo-Europeans became increasingly complex and inflected along the time, because Anatolian IE lacks the later masculine/feminine genders and especially it lacks the much more complicated and sophisticated system of verbal tenses and aspects of non-Anatolian Late PIE.

Wow, just awesome post here. Couple questions:

How would one identify if a reconstructed language were an ancient creole if said creole were constructed of unknown proto-languages?

Later PIE appears to have innovated a lot more than is usual, would this be attributed to greater number of external interactions with other languages generally or the quality/significance of the interactions? It seems to me that innovations would come along with major shifts in behavior, for instance, greater preponderance and complexity of trades and industries, not to mention intermarriage between cultural groups.
 
You know what the R1a branch actually correlates extremely well with? Scythians.

first-century-bce-outline-map.png


What Herodotus wrote about Scythians' origins makes more sense now than ever before:

"The wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria."

"From the time of their origin, that is to say from the first king Targitaos, to the passing over of Dareios against them [512 BC], they say that there is a period of a thousand years and no more."

So around 1500BC an Indoeuropean group from Iran moves into the Steppe and becomes the ruling elite of the non-IE R1a locals, within the next 1000 years the locals learn satem IE speech of the ruling class (including Baltoslavic).

Then from the 2nd century BC to the 4th century AD there is the massive Indo-Scythian migration into Pakistan, Afghanistan and India that finally brought R1a into that region. The original Indo-Iranians who were mostly J2 had Indoeuropeanized that region long before the R1a Scythian invasion though.

Well, but it doesn't really correlate well with the R1a in Central-East and Northern Europe, unless we're going to believe the old Polish nationalists and agree with them that the true origins of their ancestral Slavic tribes were mainly in the Scythians and Sarmatians (until now, at least, that's still very doubtful). Nor do I think that that "massive" (is there really strong evidence that it happened this way?) immigration of Scythians could've overwhelmed the extremely populated Late Iron Age India (quite probably, according to many historians, the most populous region in the entire world 2,000 years ago), at least not the point that R1a would became one of the main haplogroups of the male population even in Eastern India and Central/Central-Southern India, which is a bit too far away from the areas where their invasions were felt most intensely.
 
Given the reduced percentages of "steppe" in these samples once the Siberian hunter-gatherer ancestry is incorporated, and how it is predicted it might affect Central Asian samples (i.e. Kalash and Pashtuns going perhaps from 50% "steppe" to maybe 26-27%, which are levels similar to those in a lot of southern Europe), I don't think there was a "massive" effect of the steppe on even northwestern upper caste Indians.

I also think it's quite possible that we will find samples showing that Scythians with smaller amounts of "East Asian" could indeed account for a good chunk of that now reduced "steppe" element.

There's certainly nothing so far indicating a big gene flow from eastern European related R1a in the period around 2000 to 1000 BCE.
 
That hypothesis is actually about the origins of the early PIE, or maybe even its direct ancestor, in order to account for the seeming typological and lexical connections of PIE with some Caucasian language families, mainly Northwestern Caucasian and Kartvelian. "Mixed" wouldn't be the most technical term, for I think the assumption was that a Caucasian (or maybe Iranian?) language was imposed onto a local North Eurasian population, with its native language becoming a relevant substrate in the vocabulary and maybe also grammar. The core structure of the language of course wouldn't "mix", unless PIE were a creole, but it definitely has no characteristics of a true creole.

Are you referring to Bomhard's and Nicholl's work on the origin of PIE? If so I think they claimed that a North-West Caucasian language provided the substrate in the formation of PIE rather than the superstrate.
 
Are you referring to Bomhard's and Nicholl's work on the origin of PIE? If so I think they claimed that a North-West Caucasian language provided the substrate in the formation of PIE rather than the superstrate.

Oh, you're right, I inverted the order of the language shift. LOL! The rest of the argument, though, still remains. ;)
 
That hypothesis is actually about the origins of the early PIE, or maybe even its direct ancestor, in order to account for the seeming typological and lexical connections of PIE with some Caucasian language families, mainly Northwestern Caucasian and Kartvelian. "Mixed" wouldn't be the most technical term, for I think the assumption was that a Caucasian (or maybe Iranian?) language was imposed onto a local North Eurasian population, with its native language becoming a relevant substrate in the vocabulary and maybe also grammar. The core structure of the language of course wouldn't "mix", unless PIE were a creole, but it definitely has no characteristics of a true creole.

But all that process would've happened thousands of years BEFORE the PIE expansion, in the very beginning, so there was more than enough time for growing complexity and innovations in PIE - and in fact if you consider the Anatolian IE branch "archaic", that is, more conservative and not full of simplifying innovations, it does seem like the language of Indo-Europeans became increasingly complex and inflected along the time, because Anatolian IE lacks the later masculine/feminine genders and especially it lacks the much more complicated and sophisticated system of verbal tenses and aspects of non-Anatolian Late PIE.

That is Question No #1 the Hettit primitive language
Question #2 is Tocharian
 
You know what the R1a branch actually correlates extremely well with? Scythians.
first-century-bce-outline-map.png
What Herodotus wrote about Scythians' origins makes more sense now than ever before:

"The wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria."

"From the time of their origin, that is to say from the first king Targitaos, to the passing over of Dareios against them [512 BC], they say that there is a period of a thousand years and no more."

So around 1500BC an Indoeuropean group from Iran moves into the Steppe and becomes the ruling elite of the non-IE R1a locals, within the next 1000 years the locals learn satem IE speech of the ruling class (including Baltoslavic).

Then from the 2nd century BC to the 4th century AD there is the massive Indo-Scythian migration into Pakistan, Afghanistan and India that finally brought R1a into that region. The original Indo-Iranians who were mostly J2 (But also some L, G, R1b) had Indoeuropeanized that region long before the R1a Scythian invasion though.


Actually the extent of Scythia only correlates with one of many R1a branches, namely R1a-Z93, and even then only a part of Z93, as that haplogroup is also found throughout the Middle East and South Asia. Within Central Asia, regions like Turkmenistan, western Uzbekistan and northern Afghanistan (Hazaras) have more R1b than R1a. So quite frankly I wonder why you even bring it up.
 
You know what the R1a branch actually correlates extremely well with? Scythians.
first-century-bce-outline-map.png
What Herodotus wrote about Scythians' origins makes more sense now than ever before:

"The wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria."

"From the time of their origin, that is to say from the first king Targitaos, to the passing over of Dareios against them [512 BC], they say that there is a period of a thousand years and no more."

So around 1500BC an Indoeuropean group from Iran moves into the Steppe and becomes the ruling elite of the non-IE R1a locals, within the next 1000 years the locals learn satem IE speech of the ruling class (including Baltoslavic).

Then from the 2nd century BC to the 4th century AD there is the massive Indo-Scythian migration into Pakistan, Afghanistan and India that finally brought R1a into that region. The original Indo-Iranians who were mostly J2 (But also some L, G, R1b) had Indoeuropeanized that region long before the R1a Scythian invasion though.

This would actually make sense for some branches of R1a. From what i have read in history books, most scholars place the early baltoslavs somewhere near indo-iranian tribes. So it correlates well.

Although if i remember correct a lot of baltoslavs Y dna is CWC related, so don't know how that fits.
I think the steppe and eastern europe has changed Y landscape several times since roman times, so its kinda a hard area to reconstruct without ancient dna from all periods and all places there.
 
"The wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria."

"From the time of their origin, that is to say from the first king Targitaos, to the passing over of Dareios against them [512 BC], they say that there is a period of a thousand years and no more."

So around 1500BC an Indoeuropean group from Iran moves into the Steppe and becomes the ruling elite of the non-IE R1a locals, within the next 1000 years the locals learn satem IE speech of the ruling class (including Baltoslavic).

would the origin of the Scyths not rather be the Altaï Mountains?
 
The "original" Scythians,probably came from central Asia in Iron age and were nomadic tribes,they ruled the area for period of time in Ukraine where Cimmerians have been,similar story told by Herodotus.Later the name Scythians was applied to many tribes of various languages including Thracians,Goths,Bulgarians.The region was known as Scythia also,even thought they dissapeared,the region retained it's name.

In my oppion those "original" Scythians that came from Central Asia and their descendants are mostly today Tatars,like Volga Tatars,they have lineages associated with them including R1a-Z93.
They were "Turkified".
 
You know what the R1a branch actually correlates extremely well with? Scythians. What Herodotus wrote about Scythians' origins makes more sense now than ever before:

"The wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria."

"From the time of their origin, that is to say from the first king Targitaos, to the passing over of Dareios against them [512 BC], they say that there is a period of a thousand years and no more."

So around 1500BC an Indoeuropean group from Iran moves into the Steppe and becomes the ruling elite of the non-IE R1a locals, within the next 1000 years the locals learn satem IE speech of the ruling class (including Baltoslavic).

In order to interpret what he says properly, you first have to place the Massagetae. 'Massagetae' are often placed East of Caspian (I don't know based on what) but this text, apparently places them in Caucasus. Also, the term Asia was originally used just for the West coasts of Turkey. Here it probably means something close to the modern term 'West Asia'. So, the 'wandering Scythians' dwelt in the regions south of Caucasus before the conflict with the Massagetae, according to the text.

(Later sources identified the Massagetae with the Alans or the Huns. Today, some people may try to connect them to the Goths, or the Getae in Balkans or the Gutians in Iran. I think, Georgian scholars have supported they were the Moschoi of other sources, who are often thought to have been a Kartvelian tribe)

Concerning, the language Scythians were speaking, no text survives. That means they could have spoken anything. Most etymologies given to personal names etc. are speculative. If they really came from Iran though their language could have had Iranian elements even if they didn't have anything to do with the proto-Iranians in the first place. The identification of the language as 'Eastern Iranian' is based on the work of Abaev who was an Ossetian nationalist who wanted to make Ossetians descendants of the Scythians which is something most likely not true.
 
Well the queen Tomyris of the Massagetae build the town of Tomis according to Jordanes present day Constanta in Romania.

She in many accounts was known to defeated Cyrus the Great.

"After achieving this victory (against Cyrus the Great) and winning so much booty from her enemies, Queen Tomyris crossed over into that part of Moesia which is now called Lesser Scythia - a name borrowed from Great Scythia -, and built on the Moesian shore of the Black Sea the city of Tomi, named after herself."


I do not know how they from east of Caspian could have come in Romania,however Thracian Getae and Massagetae could be related,even only culturaly.
 
The identification of the language as 'Eastern Iranian' is based on the work of Abaev who was an Ossetian nationalist who wanted to make Ossetians descendants of the Scythians which is something most likely not true.
Concerning Ossetians in my opinion they are probably descendant of the Alans (Aryans).Who in turn to some later historians were known as Massagetae prior.It is confusing mostly because of contacts between this ancient people like Getae,Massagetae,Alans or "Goths",some authors call the Huns as former Massagetae.
 
Samara-R1b-M73 hunter gatherer and R1b-Z2103 kurgans fit reasonably well in Elshanka pottery region. 7000 BC+/-
VgoV8tHiqerD9RYv-Region.png


MeHcnwBKM690HN9A-Region.png



Component ANE also fits reasonably well in the same region.---[FONT=&quot]Ancestral North Eurasian (ANE): Upper-Paleolithic genomes from the Lake Baikal region of Siberia, identified as Malta, Afontogora 2, and Afontogora 3, dated to 17 to 24 kya, when Mammoths roamed the area, form the ANE cluster.[/FONT]
ANE_K8.png
 
I don't know, I'd say that during many events in history the vast majority of the people in fat switched their languages quite easily, and only increasingly smaller and scattered pockets resisted until the final extinction... And I'm also really skeptical of this hypothesis (certainly not uncontroversial) that there is necessarily a simplification of morphology and syntax right after the adoption of a language by many originally different peoples, becoming the lingua franca and a bit later the native language of a wide area and large population.

It seems to me to rely too much on what happened in Western Europe and a few other cases, too, but that is certainly not a general trend and maybe the chronological correlation isn't that strong between the assimilation of foreign peoples and the simplification of the language. For instance, the period of really massive adoption of English by foreigners wasn't after the Norman conquest, but before with the assimilation of the Celts and a bit later of the Norse, yet Old English still had a very complex grammar.

Norse, by the way, is an interesting example of an opposite evidence: it went through the same intense simplification of syntax and morphology as English, but it developed organically among people who mostly already spoke a North Germanic language since many generations earlier, not assimilating huge foreign populations.

Another example that demonstrates that this hypothesis of "foreign people adopting the language > they don't speak it properly > the language gets simplified" is a bit too simplistic is that the bulk of the loss of morphological and syntactic complexities in Latin happened mainly after the 4th century and especially after the 6th century AD, when by that time the vast majority of the people had been Romanized for several generations, even centuries, and only small pockets of other languages resisted (yes, including the example you have about the Gaulish language in the 5th century AD, when it was clearly a fringe rural language). The really intense simplification of the grammar, even in Vulgar Latin, seems to have happened when Latin had already stood the test centuries earlier, but then internal processes, like phonological changes that levelled out some previous distinctions in declensions, caused the whole system to crumble.

Besides, people who already speak languages with complex morphology and syntax wouldn't find anything very "alien" in a complex system like that of PIE or, later, Sanskrit or Latin, and eventual simplification could've been, as many linguists assert, simply an internal, systemic evolution that, still according to them, happens in the very long term in most languages forming a pendulum ranging from more analyctical to more syntactic or even agglutatinative.

For example, we can see that Magyar, which is still extremely complex in grammar, was successfully imposed onto the local population by a small elite minority that soon left few genetic and even cultural impacts. Another example is the expansion of Russian in North Asia, Turkish in Anatolia (Turkish is in fact more conservative - and complex - than some other Turkic languages still located in/near the steppes), Vedic Sanskrit in India (only much later in some old Prakrits the morphology and syntax would start to simplify a lot), etc.

But just to finish this post let me just state that that whole hypothesis about "mixed" origins of PIE does not refer to the period of Late PIE when it began to expand, so I'm not assuming that those who spread PIE didn't form a "strong linguistic identity". They certainly did, but we can't say the same about their ancestors when the earliest forms of PIE appeared.

That hypothesis is actually about the origins of the early PIE, or maybe even its direct ancestor, in order to account for the seeming typological and lexical connections of PIE with some Caucasian language families, mainly Northwestern Caucasian and Kartvelian. "Mixed" wouldn't be the most technical term, for I think the assumption was that a Caucasian (or maybe Iranian?) language was imposed onto a local North Eurasian population, with its native language becoming a relevant substrate in the vocabulary and maybe also grammar. The core structure of the language of course wouldn't "mix", unless PIE were a creole, but it definitely has no characteristics of a true creole.

But all that process would've happened thousands of years BEFORE the PIE expansion, in the very beginning, so there was more than enough time for growing complexity and innovations in PIE - and in fact if you consider the Anatolian IE branch "archaic", that is, more conservative and not full of simplifying innovations, it does seem like the language of Indo-Europeans became increasingly complex and inflected along the time, because Anatolian IE lacks the later masculine/feminine genders and especially it lacks the much more complicated and sophisticated system of verbal tenses and aspects of non-Anatolian Late PIE.

All of us and even specialists make assumptions more than anything -
So I do:
- ancient times without schools cannot be compared to strictly to modern times -
- even today people don't change easily of language, even with leasons -
- the colonial "great" languages have been taught by some parts of the pops for practical reasons (trade, job); very often the result is rather a lower level of language, as well for lexicon than for grammar - the level is good in high classes formed in school and "cooperating" with the "winners" -
- the most of the time the language shift passes through a bilingual stage, with some porosity between both languages -

- concerning Germanic, it has been proposed it was a badly transmitted form of I-E since its origin (perhaps it began "germanic" because of this transmission or kind of unbalanced osmosis -
- concerning Celtic in the Isles, we have to be prudent: I'm not sure the Anglo-saxon was spoken by the whole not-Welsh not-Cornish not-Irish speaking regions of Britain before the Normans (BTW what often confuse Normans with later French people, and I think the romance influence and spread whih produced English was stronger with these last ones than before) -
If I judge on the Icelandic Norse were by far more conservative than English concerning some aspects of morphology/ syntax - Even the continental Scandinavian languages are a bit more conservative than English
- Magyar is maybe not a so clear example: I think the languages was learned generation after generation by transmission to a low % of new aggregated people, already long before reaching today Carpathian Basin where they assimilated the last ones - progressive integration (social promotion) does not produce the same result as massive brutal shift (to be proved anywhere) or as only militar service or superficial trade contacts -
- but I agree certain changes in languages are not always the result of transmission/shift, but internal evolutions - that said these innovations are not always simplifications, but changes in grammatical strategies -
ATW I avow I don't master completely these shifts questions - it would require a long study of every sort of cases -
 
In order to interpret what he says properly, you first have to place the Massagetae. 'Massagetae' are often placed East of Caspian (I don't know based on what) but this text, apparently places them in Caucasus. Also, the term Asia was originally used just for the West coasts of Turkey. Here it probably means something close to the modern term 'West Asia'. So, the 'wandering Scythians' dwelt in the regions south of Caucasus before the conflict with the Massagetae, according to the text.

(Later sources identified the Massagetae with the Alans or the Huns. Today, some people may try to connect them to the Goths, or the Getae in Balkans or the Gutians in Iran. I think, Georgian scholars have supported they were the Moschoi of other sources, who are often thought to have been a Kartvelian tribe)

Concerning, the language Scythians were speaking, no text survives. That means they could have spoken anything. Most etymologies given to personal names etc. are speculative. If they really came from Iran though their language could have had Iranian elements even if they didn't have anything to do with the proto-Iranians in the first place. The identification of the language as 'Eastern Iranian' is based on the work of Abaev who was an Ossetian nationalist who wanted to make Ossetians descendants of the Scythians which is something most likely not true.

I won't say that Ossetians' main ancestry is still purely from Iron Age Scythians, but the evidences do reinforce the possibility that they are, in some relevant proportion, descendants of ancient Iron Age steppe (broadly Scytho-Sarmatian) populations of the steppes. There is also little evidence that, even if the earliest origin of the Scythian culture/language had come from Iran, they were still very "Iranian" (as in from the Iranian Plateau) by the later Iron Age, and actually had admixtures that we can broadly define as "North Eurasian" (Bronze Age steppe-like + Northeast Asian introgression). Even if Ossetians do not descend from "the" Scythians, they certainly are at the very least cultural descendants of an ancient Indo-European steppe culture, and that part of their ancestry does seem to have links to Bronze Age steppe cultures even now associated with the spread of Indo-Iranian.

Some Caucasian people - and this study I refer below didn't even sample proper Ossetians, but just some neighboring Caucasian peoples - look like partial heirs to Scythians (or more technically speaking Iranic steppe peoples), and I'd certainly expect an Indo-European-speaking, Indo-Iranian-shifted population (in language) to be even more so. Other populations of Central Asia and the Caucasus, in the case of western Scythians, are probably descendants of those ancient nomads as this study concluded last year (that of course doesn't mean they derive entirely from them): https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615

From the western part of the Eurasian Steppe, samples discovered in the North Caucasus dating to the initial Scythian period (eighth to sixth century BCE), classical Scythians from the Don-Volga region (third century BCE), and Early Sarmatians from Pokrovka, southwest of the Ural (fifth to second century BCE), were included.

we used ABC to fit a sample of Middle Bronze Age nomadic groups from western Siberia, most of them associated with the Andronovo culture, onto the preferred demographic model for the origin of Scythians. For this purpose—and based on low F[SUB]ST[/SUB] values between these groups—we combined 40 samples related to the Andronovo culture in the west Siberian forest steppe30 and nine samples from the same culture in the Krasnoyarsk region31, all of which were dated to the first half of the 2nd millennium BCE. The results provided very strong support for a linkage between these Middle Bronze Age groups and eastern Scythians (Supplementary Tables 16 and 17). However, these simulations were not able to fully capture the patterns of genetic diversity observed in the Bronze Age populations, suggesting that the true demographic history of the ancestry of Iron Age populations may have been more complex than considered here

"Concerning the legacy of the Iron Age nomads, we find that modern human populations with a close genetic relationship to the Scythian groups are predominantly located in close geographic proximity to the sampled burial sites, suggesting a degree of population continuity through historical times. Contemporary descendants of western Scythian groups are found among various groups in the Caucasus and Central Asia, while similarities to eastern Scythian are found to be more widespread, but almost exclusively among Turkic language speaking (formerly) nomadic groups, particularly from the Kipchak branch of Turkic languages (Supplementary Note 1)."
 
- but I agree certain changes in languages are not always the result of transmission/shift, but internal evolutions - that said these innovations are not always simplifications, but changes in grammatical strategies -
ATW I avow I don't master completely these shifts questions - it would require a long study of every sort of cases -

Yes, that is what I believe. In some cases, the languages gains, instead of losing, complexity in some aspects while at the same time it loses in others (some linguists say that's been happening in Modern English in some interesting and usually neglected points of the grammar), and the general direction of the language's evolution may well be of slowly increasing complexity instead of simplification, provided that those are organic developments gradually sophisticated and learned progressively by the native speakers. So, I don't think that, except for the very specific case of creole languages, which are mostly a very modern phenomenon under very specific (and not so common) social circumstances, there is a necessary correlation between language shift and assimilation of many non-native speakers and a language's grammatical simplification, that is, that may happen, and it probably indeed happened in some cases, but not in all of them, and I'd say it is a much more likely outcome only if the languages of those assimilated people were already pretty much analyctical and without intricate morphology/syntax, otherwise they wouldn't find their new language very "alien" as it would in fact work using pretty much similar "grammatical strategies", as you say.
 
Although if i remember correct a lot of baltoslavs Y dna is CWC related, so don't know how that fits.

Actually the extent of Scythia only correlates with one of many R1a branches, namely R1a-Z93

Well, but it doesn't really correlate well with the R1a in Central-East and Northern Europe

No, not really, after Corded Ware was kicked out of central Europe R1a does not come back until after 1000AD. No R1a in iron age and medieval Poland:

KO_55, Kowalewko (100-300 AD), I1a3a1a1-Y6626
KO_45, Kowalewko (100-300 AD), I2a2a1b2a-L801
KO_22, Kowalewko (100-300 AD), G2a2b-L30
KO_57, Kowalewko (100-300 AD), G2a2b-L30
ME_7, Markowice (1000-1200 AD), I1a2a2a5-Y5384
NA_13, Niemcza, (900-1000 AD), I2a1b2-L621
NA_18, Niemcza, (900-1000 AD), J2a1a-L26
etc.

So all R1a, not just R1a-Z93, was contained in Scythian territory until after the Slavic expansion made inroads back to central Europe.

The importance of the 1500BC time Herodotus say Scythians invade the Steppe is that most estimates put Proto-Balto-Slavic branching out 3500 year ago, or at 1500BC, the exact same time. If Proto-Balto-Slavic descended from Corded Ware it would be 5000 years old instead.
 
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I won't say that Ossetians' main ancestry is still purely from Iron Age Scythians, but the evidences do reinforce the possibility that they are, in some relevant proportion, descendants of ancient Iron Age steppe (broadly Scytho-Sarmatian) populations of the steppes. There is also little evidence that, even if the earliest origin of the Scythian culture/language had come from Iran, they were still very "Iranian" (as in from the Iranian Plateau) by the later Iron Age, and actually had admixtures that we can broadly define as "North Eurasian" (Bronze Age steppe-like + Northeast Asian introgression). Even if Ossetians do not descend from "the" Scythians, they certainly are at the very least cultural descendants of an ancient Indo-European steppe culture, and that part of their ancestry does seem to have links to Bronze Age steppe cultures even now associated with the spread of Indo-Iranian.Some Caucasian people - and this study I refer below didn't even sample proper Ossetians, but just some neighboring Caucasian peoples - look like partial heirs to Scythians (or more technically speaking Iranic steppe peoples), and I'd certainly expect an Indo-European-speaking, Indo-Iranian-shifted population (in language) to be even more so. Other populations of Central Asia and the Caucasus, in the case of western Scythians, are probably descendants of those ancient nomads as this study concluded last year (that of course doesn't mean they derive entirely from them): https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615From the western part of the Eurasian Steppe, samples discovered in the North Caucasus dating to the initial Scythian period (eighth to sixth century BCE), classical Scythians from the Don-Volga region (third century BCE), and Early Sarmatians from Pokrovka, southwest of the Ural (fifth to second century BCE), were included.
The term Scythian today is used for cultures that probably were speaking multiple languages. The population Greeks called Scythians self-identified as 'Skoloti', according to the sources. People in the past have used that to connect them to Scots or to Slavs etc.The Sarmatians are more strongly associated with Iranic people, especially Medes. Diodorus mentions a colony of the Medes in Don.Sarmatians, Scythians, Massagetae etc. look like distinct groups in the sources, even though that depends on the author.Giving an Iranian identity to all Iron Age steppic groups is an ideological position, imo.
 

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