MOESAN
Elite member
- Messages
- 5,892
- Reaction score
- 1,294
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Brittany
- Ethnic group
- more celtic
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b - L21/S145*
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H3c
I open this thread here not to soil linguistic and genetic threads, spite all that is linked in some way, whatever the accuracy of methods -
Don't try to answer or add before I arrive to comparisons between anthropologic and DNA data (the few I have at hand), please, just to make it clearer -
Some metric surveys, whatever their lacks, tell us something :
Eurasian Steppes pops of Neolithic and then Metals ages show us :
- the earlier pops were of (an) « archaic » type(S), high statured, dolichocephalic but rather broadfaced, with rugged and robust bones etc. even in so called Ukraine Neolithic ; this not too precise description (‘cromagnoids’, ‘paleoeuropoids’) applies to Mesolithic and first Neolithic people of South-East Baltic lands then North-East Europe sensu stricto -
- Neolithic apparently from Southeastern Europe brought new types, smallstatured and slender dolicho-subdolicho’s narrowfaced or smallfaced and very highskulled (‘gracile mediters’ or ‘danubians’ types), who began the majority of Cucuteni and Tripolje area – there, when unbalanced, the crossings show only a female mediated input of earlier archaic types, not a male one) -
- as a whole the stock herders pops of the Chalco and later Bronze Ages were a mix of the archaic robust types with something evocating more slender types supposed of Southern origin ; nevertheless the most common result of the crossing was a tallstatured pop, dolichocephalic, with high face not so broad, but very more robust than the previously known ‘mediter’ types of any Western or Southern region – here and there was found too some brachycephals, I suppose they were rather robust enough, maybe already on the way to a kind of ‘dinaric’ -
- C.S. Coon about CWC types « created » the ‘corded’ type, rather high statured, dolichocrane, high faced, very highskulled and rather more robust than the ‘mediter’ types ; he describes him as having a lot of ressemblances concerning skull with Al Ubaid Mesopotamian so called ‘eurafrican’ or ‘robust mediter’ type of some authors, spite higher skulled than this southern type, and with Iranian tribes of the Steppes – but he added elsewhere some details : a) in his mind ‘corded’ were come from Ukraine or close surroundings, were he found also his small ‘danubian type’ we may supposed issued from a Tripolye influence, or from a not too far other Neolithic pop -
b) he proposed that the CWC people who colonised Northwestern and Central Europe (and even Northeastern Europe, Battle Axe and Cy) were a selected pop as it arrives often among a general pop from where emigrate a certain number of people ; I personally add selection can be AND geographic (small local group) AND based on other criteria (age, warlike qualities, gener…); this is not senseless because it could explain some phenotypic distances between two samples of pops of same global origins spite they do not show big discrepancies concerning total auDNA -
& : plus we know some CWC settlements were homogenous enough when others, the ones of Central South Europe and Southwestern Germany were very heterogenous by absorbtion of local females (and perhaps even rare males) what is confirmed by dental non-metric traits and auDNA -
in Northeastern South Baltic Europe the CWC derived « products » Battle Axes were more robust and show either a later mix with our well known archaic types or the fact that the departing pops for this target lands were closer to the mean type of Southwestern Steppes of Ukraine – some authors had advanced the CWC pop and the close enough Unetice one were autochtonous in Northcentral Europe, classifying them as ‘gracile and robust mediters’ ; but the skull heights and other details point to some more Eastern mix for the elites – ATW the auDNA seems showing us the CWC were not completely homogenous - spite they were more than BBC were – and this is the result of their implantation ad diverse local matings -
Don't try to answer or add before I arrive to comparisons between anthropologic and DNA data (the few I have at hand), please, just to make it clearer -
Some metric surveys, whatever their lacks, tell us something :
Eurasian Steppes pops of Neolithic and then Metals ages show us :
- the earlier pops were of (an) « archaic » type(S), high statured, dolichocephalic but rather broadfaced, with rugged and robust bones etc. even in so called Ukraine Neolithic ; this not too precise description (‘cromagnoids’, ‘paleoeuropoids’) applies to Mesolithic and first Neolithic people of South-East Baltic lands then North-East Europe sensu stricto -
- Neolithic apparently from Southeastern Europe brought new types, smallstatured and slender dolicho-subdolicho’s narrowfaced or smallfaced and very highskulled (‘gracile mediters’ or ‘danubians’ types), who began the majority of Cucuteni and Tripolje area – there, when unbalanced, the crossings show only a female mediated input of earlier archaic types, not a male one) -
- as a whole the stock herders pops of the Chalco and later Bronze Ages were a mix of the archaic robust types with something evocating more slender types supposed of Southern origin ; nevertheless the most common result of the crossing was a tallstatured pop, dolichocephalic, with high face not so broad, but very more robust than the previously known ‘mediter’ types of any Western or Southern region – here and there was found too some brachycephals, I suppose they were rather robust enough, maybe already on the way to a kind of ‘dinaric’ -
- C.S. Coon about CWC types « created » the ‘corded’ type, rather high statured, dolichocrane, high faced, very highskulled and rather more robust than the ‘mediter’ types ; he describes him as having a lot of ressemblances concerning skull with Al Ubaid Mesopotamian so called ‘eurafrican’ or ‘robust mediter’ type of some authors, spite higher skulled than this southern type, and with Iranian tribes of the Steppes – but he added elsewhere some details : a) in his mind ‘corded’ were come from Ukraine or close surroundings, were he found also his small ‘danubian type’ we may supposed issued from a Tripolye influence, or from a not too far other Neolithic pop -
b) he proposed that the CWC people who colonised Northwestern and Central Europe (and even Northeastern Europe, Battle Axe and Cy) were a selected pop as it arrives often among a general pop from where emigrate a certain number of people ; I personally add selection can be AND geographic (small local group) AND based on other criteria (age, warlike qualities, gener…); this is not senseless because it could explain some phenotypic distances between two samples of pops of same global origins spite they do not show big discrepancies concerning total auDNA -
& : plus we know some CWC settlements were homogenous enough when others, the ones of Central South Europe and Southwestern Germany were very heterogenous by absorbtion of local females (and perhaps even rare males) what is confirmed by dental non-metric traits and auDNA -
in Northeastern South Baltic Europe the CWC derived « products » Battle Axes were more robust and show either a later mix with our well known archaic types or the fact that the departing pops for this target lands were closer to the mean type of Southwestern Steppes of Ukraine – some authors had advanced the CWC pop and the close enough Unetice one were autochtonous in Northcentral Europe, classifying them as ‘gracile and robust mediters’ ; but the skull heights and other details point to some more Eastern mix for the elites – ATW the auDNA seems showing us the CWC were not completely homogenous - spite they were more than BBC were – and this is the result of their implantation ad diverse local matings -