Nothing to do with this Pax Kalergi Yetos. We have discussed before the role of the Orthodox Church. Emmanuel Tzanes was a painter of byzantine art in Candia at the time of the war, when the war of 1644 started, he fled to Corfù where he wrote a poem about the war. In that poem he wonders if it's better the Turks to win the war. Of course, Tzane's opinion represents the orthodox church's opinion about this war. There was an tradition in orthodox church established since the occupation of the City from Mehmet II in year 1453. The attitude of the orthodox church in the siege of Constantinople at 1453 where actually gave the City to the Turks while Latins alone fighting on the walls.
Sultan Mehmet Fatih with Patriarch of Constantinople, Genadius Scholarios. There are some sources that support the theory that Ottomans found Genadius in a market of slaves. They liberated and put him at the head of Orthodox Church. As Gennadios Scholarios was blaring during the siege of Constantinople ''Don't fight! It's God's will this city to be turkish!'' the same was repeated in the siege of Candia, i just don't have the citation yet. The facts confirm this. During the Venetian rule the orthodox high clergy was banned from Crete, only lower papades were allowed there so imo they, the church and of course the ecumenical patriarch naturally supported the Ottoman conquest. Already in 1646 when the Ottomans captured Rethymnon, the patriarch of Constantinaple appointed there Neophytos Patellaros as metropolitan of Crete under Ottoman protection. The guy was from a rich local family and a relative of the patriarch. The Ottomans also exempted the local orthodox priests and monks from the jizya for 30 years to win their support. Source for these:
Elizabeth A. Zachariadou, Glances at the Greek Orthodox priests in the seventeenth century in: Living in the Ottoman Ecumenical Community, Essays in Honour of Suraiya Faroqhi,p. 310. The war wasn't even started yet when the orthodox church was taking office at rethymno. How confused will be a greek child if been learned all this at school? If considers what disaster the turks bring to the island right after the war. It`s an classic of human history, Yetos. In one hand the sword and in the other hand the cross. A reason? Following your logic when you attack Albanians here, because Cretans were Christians like the Venetians. Absolutely not true. The story is completly different and this is an different discussion but let me bring you in reality: A bunch of drunk people without experience. Meanwhile their leader Ypsilantis, ended in a prison after being betrayed by "greek merchants". All his "warriors", the slavs, etc, escaped. Who remained until the end in the battlefield, and this is not said in the article of Wiki, were two persons with their warriors, George Olimpi, probably a Vlach(some Albanians claim that he was Albanian but i have not found strong evidences in support of this thesis, so he was a Vlach in my opinion) and an Albanian, Ali Farmaki(not the friend of Kollokotronis, another Farmaki) with his Albanians. They both fought until the end, an classic this in the history of the Balcans, an Albanian and a Vlach, like Scanderbeg and Huniadi. Olimpi committed suicide, meanwhile Farmaki was captured alive by Ottomans and was impaled in Istanbul. The Great Powers decided the future of this region, not some insignificant semi-clandestine organisation.The most powerful man in the southern Balkans at that time was an Albanian Pasha, Ali Pasha of Tepelena. But these are long stories and not related with this topic. Yetos, you can not continue with this kind of discussion, i know something but i will not tell you nothing you have to search yourself. If you know something that you consider important about this
ainigmatic Pax Kalergi, open a thread and explain it. It`s so simple. I think this has been explained. Anyway, you are free to explain your point of view. P.S. Please, try to translate in English your post number 60. Thanks.
hm
Church had always influence EVERYWHERE,
even in Albania, religion played a big role,
Religion many times STARTED WARS.
BUT IN CASE OF CRETE YOU WRONG,AND NOT ONLY WRONG BUT...
What in purpose you do not see,or search, is what really happened,
ok lets see one by one,
First you say that Church (possibly you mean the Orthodox and not the Catholic) gave Con/polis and about Scholarios
BUT YOU SUPPORT STRADIOTI, SO PROBALY YOU ARE WITH GEMISTOS PLITHON,
STRATIOTES CARRY THE IDEA OF ΠΛΗΘΩΝ ΓΕΜΙΣΤΟΣ,
SO YOU ARE CONFUSED CLEARLY EVEN ABOUT WHAT STRADIOTI REPRESENT AS IDEA.
I SUGGEST READ HER WORK
YOU USE HER MANY TIMES,YOU KNOW HER, ELENI GLYKATZI ARBELER.
SECOND
THE FALL OF CON?POLIS TO TURKS WAS THE SECOND ONE.
THE FIRST WAS TO CRUSADERS OF 4RTH CRUSADE.
THE ERA IS NAMED
LATINOCRACY
AND MAKES CLEAR THE GREEK STATES, VS THE CRUSADERS STATES,
THE EPIKOYREIAN PHILOSOPHY CRUSADERS,
WHO SWORN LIBERTY TO 'HOLY PLACES"
LIBERATED EAST ROMAN EMPIRE, BY THE ROMANS!!!!!!!!
THIRD,
for the story of Con/polis fall to Muhamad 2nd also has minor stories,
a decade before that happened the Ferrara- Firenze congress of Christian churches.
the
Indulgence Jubile of Vatican Ιντouλγκεντσιες Ιωβηλαιου,
manage to gather a lot of money,
But they were used by the Aragonese, in tottaly different purposes.
Con/polis was defended by Palaiologos,
The Russian LATIN patriarch sender, Isidoros of Kiev
and The 3 galleys of Genovese defenders,
I suggest read Pope Pius 2nd about that,
and the effects of Ferrara-Firenze concress.
ON CONTADICTORY,MUHAMED 2nd build
RUMELI HISAR,
RUMELI HISAR BLOCK ANY HELP FROM WEST,ONLY TH GENOVESE FLEET PAST IT.
RUMELI HISAR GUARD WAS MAINLY BY BALKAN PEOPLE,TILL GATHER THE FORCES FROM EAST,
MUHAMED GATHERS MORE THAN 100 000 Army there, for some 200 000
THE ETHNICITIES BY % ARE
TURKS
ALBANIANS
MULSIMIZED BYZANTINES
SERBIANS
FACT NO 1.
OUTSIDE AT LEAST 100 000 multinatianal force,
inside 4500 Byzantines and 3 galleys of Justiniani Genovese.
the fall started By death of Justiniani,
his death drop the morale of the Genovese
,and since only they could pass the Keratios,
their work change to load the galleys with the sacred relicks,
They left few hours before the fall,
so when Turks entered they were sailing, carrying the relicks, and the city empty
a city of 70 000 around 1438 had only 10 000 people and few guards at the fall,
THEY EMPTY THE CITY BEFORE SIEGE......
FACT No2
when you write about Scholarios you are right,
and have big truth about him and the monks.
He was cursing the defenders, and send Byzantine Youth to monasteries
just not to fight for Con/polis
THAT IS MOHAMED 2nd gave him Millet.
and he restored the Athos 'Holy mountain' monasteric properties
FACT NO3
Vatican in case of Con/polis show tottaly a different face than with Crusade 4rth,
I will not enter why or what,
BUT that time face an inner possible schisma,which should first arrange
THE ABOVE ARE FACTS,
CON/POLIS FELT DUE TO THE ARMY THAT MUHAMAD MANAGE TO GATHER,AND HIS MONEY, AND DIPLOMACY
AND DUE TO DIVISION OF BYZANTINES,
THE FERRARA-FIRENZE CONGRESS MADE A LOT OF DAMAGE TO EAST,
THAN HELP KEEP THE EAST ROMAN EMPIRE.
and WHEN WE SPEAK ABOUT CHURCHES AND CLERICS,
MY OPINION IS HYPOCRISY IS BEHIND
It was not the Vatican responsible to save Con/polis
Neither was Scholarios or specially Isidoros the Latin patriarch of Con/poli
ssimply the foundamentalism among church fanatics,
HELPED ONLY THE TURKS AND THEIR DIPLOMACY.
A LESSON TO BOTH EAST AND WEST,
THAT WEST REALIZE IT AFTER THE Pope PIOS 2nd,
WEST (catholics) COULD NOT POSSES OR DEFEND EAST,AND HAD NO JOB TO RULE AT THE EAST,
EAST (Orthodox) DOGMATIC DEFENDING AND STERILE DIPLOMACY IS JUST BRINGING SHRINKING,
Church manage to save monasteries and properties,but shrunk,
shrunk to the limit of almost non existance.
ABOUT HANDAKAS (candia)
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHURCH OR CON/POLIS OR WHATEVER YOU CLAIM
CRETE BELONGS TO JERUSALEM PATRIARCHATE,
AS CONCERNS RELIGIONA TOTTALY DIFFERENT APROACH THAN CON/POLIS.
HALF GREEK, HALF ARAB, SPEAKING, BUT ROMEO- CATHOLIC by 5/12
THAT IS WHY ARABS WANTED BEFORE, WHEN THEY OCCUPIED JERUSALEM.
Fact No 1
4rth Crusade,Crete is Given to Bonifat de Monferat,who then sells it etc etc
SOLD GIVEN SOLD GIVEN SOLD
I suggest you know the Greek rhime
κολοκυθια στον Πάτερο, send pumpkins to Pateros.
which comes from that Era.
FACT NO2
Crete is Venician occupation and even in few decades start revolts there,
the one that manage to change the status was the
PAX KALLERGI,
PAX KALLERGI last 17-19 years,
BUT GAVE THE WEST AN IMPORTAND MEANING,
NO OCUPATION WITH OUT ACCEPTED AND EQUAL RULES,
and citizenship
Ι Suggest find the terms
PAX KALLERGI IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TREATIES TO THE WESTERN MEDIEVAL WORLD.
ALTHOUGH IS ONE OF THE LESS KNOWN.
Only the term that Kallergi and Cretans took back their land, while Pope Clement 5th lost His properties,
you understand the measure of the treaty.
Pax Kallergi is a big achievement of Cretans,
and although siezed 17 years after,
still gave Cretans dignity, and participation on how the land should be ruled,
a kind of Autonomy Not the castle, the land outside.
IT WAS A STARTING POINT TO ACCEPT OR REVOLT TO AN ERA CALLED ENETOCRACY
Fact No 3
the Eneto-Turkish wars were many.
The one you mention at 1640-1670 about started by Malta Knights, which use Crete to hide,
after Attacking Ottomans,an Attack to the caravan of pilgrims returning from Mekka, and half of his harem
is tottaly something outrageous for Islamic populations,
So the anger of Porta would not stop until erase either Venicians from Crete, even the island hershelf,
No matter treaties etc etc happened to protect it, it was doomed, for the forces of Sultan were tremendous,
and THE CRETANS POSSIBLY HAD NO WILL TO HELP THE VENICIANS WHO REGREAT THE PAX KALLERGI, and cancel it
AND WHY SHOULD THEY CARE FOR THE FEUDAL SYSTEM or Aristicracy THAT VENICE PROMOTE (compare Libro d' oro in other areas, etc etc)
In their mind is not to protect Venician Aristocrates, but their island from massacres that might happened.
AND I ASK YOU,AMONG 2 OCCUPIERS, WHICH ONE YOU CHOOSE?
So what happenned is that Cretans did not risk to trade and merchant with food the castles,
but merchandise with Ottomans, and did not evolve resisting Ottomans,
On Contradictory, they left them alone, and that is why we had no atrocities,
Fact No 4
Handakas (candia) castle was sold,
Not Taken, NEITHER FELT
DOES THIS REMINDS YOU SOMETHING? LIKE THE 4rth Crusade?
the 'PATEROS PUMKINS
'
Andrea Barrozi took 1400 Ducats,
remember that Nicolo Palaiologo was paid 2 Ducats per month By the city Brescia as Stradioti for a group of 21 knights
POST #60 you ask Is his letter to accepted and serve Venice
So I answer you to that.
FACT No 5
THE VENICIAN-ITALIAN COLONIES/DWELLINGS IN CRETE
What You do not see is this, (I do not want to believe, that you do it in purpose)
Crete had 2 major Venician Italian colonies
one was in Chania, and one in Lasithi plateau, especially the last was outside the city walls numbering if remember correct 3 000-10 000 Venicians
if you are old in the forum there was a thread about them and their genetics
THEY ARE STILL THERE
as the genetic shows,But they become one with Cretans and their philosophy,possibly participated at the Crete Liberation strungles
WHICH MEANS THAT ONLY THE DEFENDERS of Castle LEFT CRETE
,WHILE VENICIANS OUTSIDE CASTLE REMAIN IN CRETE,
WHY? WHAT HAPPENED AND THEY STAY WITH NO ARMY TO PROTECT THEM?
Fact No 6
THE SEMI-AUTONOMOUS CRETE
Crete after that war gains priviledges, that did not had before, even with Pax Kallergi,
Even Autonomy in many things
Until the era of Egyptian occupation.
That Autonomy is one of the important in Greek paligenesia
remember Karaiskakis,he had 600 Cretans infantry and navy at the siege of Athens,
even after the Orlov's
PS
Tottaly Different thinking?
or for propaganda reasons?
2 things we must notice as balkanic people
1, When Romans enter Balkans, Illyrians resist,
Their efforts remained in History as Illyrian wars,
As Makedonian and Greek I am proud that my ancestors also resist
2. When Mussolini enter Balkans, Albanians did not resist.
Greeks even today celebrate the 'OXI day' considering it the second most precious word for their indepentence.
tell me Laberia,
as an Albanian and possibly claiming ancestry from Illyrians,
what do you think about that?
DOES THE FEELING OF ANCESTRY CHANGED AFTER 2 millenias?
OR SOMETHING ELSE?
IT IS THE FEELING AND THE MOOD OF THE LOCALS ACCORDING ERA AND INDEPEDENCE
BEAUTY IS THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
TRUE DEFENDER IS THE ONE WHO LIVES IN THE AREA.