Stradioti.....their origin and history????

for what?

For Pax Kallergi?
or for Andrea Barozzi?


palazzo-vendramin-calergi.jpg


Vendramin - Kalergi.

as for the info

Search the 'Fede Amorosa', a thetrical play
Dedicated to Kalergi family and Kalerga Kalergi
Venice 1620.

for Andrea Barozzi
I am sure you can find a lot in Intranet.

one of the top writers for Candia
is Ιωαννης 'Κομνενος' Παπαδοπουλος
his books Occio
in Italian Zuane 'Comneno' papadopoli from Padova
he was not a Comnenos, he just used that title.


Qui tandem habito refpe£tu , quòd pax femper bonum inducebat , guerra verò malum , contenti fuerunt ad pacem & concordiam cum Venetis pervenire ; Cujus guerræ ... De reverfione Alexii Calergi ad Nuncios Januenfium. f H Ic Alexius tempore guerræ cum 3anuenfìbus nuper præteritæ per folemnes eorum.

Rerum Italicares Scriptores ....



This is what the page of Wiki says:
Cretan War (1645–1669)


Fall of Candia


The new Ottoman army arrived on the island during the winter of 1666/1667, and in May, the final phase of the siege, overseen by the Grand Vizier himself, began. It would last for 28 months and cost the lives of 70,000 Ottoman soldiers, 38,000 conscripted Cretans and slaves who labored in the Ottoman siege works and 29,088 of the city's Christian defenders.[38]
Your people who write this things.
 
Now, you're right when you tell me that this topic really needs some moderation, so...
I really appreciate this.
BTW, is it possible that Yetos offers us an English translation of his post number 60? Because if I'm not mistaken, it is against the rules of this forum to cite a text without an English translation, usually these kind of posts are deleted after giving to the member a reasonable space of time.
Thanks in advance.
 
I really appreciate this.
BTW, is it possible that Yetos offers us an English translation of his post number 60? Because if I'm not mistaken, it is against the rules of this forum to cite a text without an English translation, usually these kind of posts are deleted after giving to the member a reasonable space of time.
Thanks in advance.

Let focus on Stradiot history and sources.....


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LABERIA you live in the myth,
A Myth that you make by your Own,

Mercurio Boya
Korkondil Κλαδας from Χειμαρα !!!!!!!!
ΚΟΡΚΟΝΤΥΛ ΚΛΑΔΑ WOULD BE NOONE IF NOT MET DAIMONOGIANNI ΔΑΙΜΟΝΟΓΙΑΝΝΗΣ ΓΕΩΡΓΙΟΣ
WAS DAEMONOGIANNI ALSO ALBANIAN FROM CHIMARA?
DAIMONOGIANNI FOUGHT FOR VENICIANS UNTIL 1479. then he fought again at 1490 and died at 1493.
He died at 1490, The mentor of Klada to Stratioti.


That is why I love you guys,
cause everytime, you enter the same loop.

Ο Κροκόδειλος (Κορκόδειλος-Κορκόντηλος-Ακροκόνδυλος) Κλαδάς (1425-1490) καταγόταν από τη Χιμάρα της Β. Ηπείρου και ήταν αλβανικής καταγωγής. Ο πατέρας του Θεόδωρος μετανάστευσε μαζί με άλλους Αλβανούς στην Πελοπόννησο όπου βρέθηκε στην υπηρεσία των Παλαιολόγων. Για τις υπηρεσίες του άλλωστε αυτές τού παραχωρήθηκαν εκτάσεις στην Μπαρδούνια της Μάνης όπου διατηρήθηκε το αρβανίτικο στοιχείο τουλάχιστον ως το 1821.




The Krokodeilos (Kordodilos-Korkontilos-Acrocondylos) of Kladas (1425-1490) originated from Chimara, Northern Epirus and was of Albanian descent. His father, Theodore, emigrated with other Albanians to the Peloponnese, where he was in the service of Palaiologos. For his services, he was given land in Barduuna of Mani, where the Arvanite element was preserved at least until 1821.

http://www.mani.org.gr/istor/klad2/kladas_arthro.htm
 
This is what the page of Wiki says:
Cretan War (1645–1669)



Your people who write this things.

where it writes such thing?
Cause I know Turks had more than 60 000.
Locals supported Ottomans merchandising food and simple things
and not the ones in the castle.
BUT GAIN THEIR PARTIALLY AUTONOMY


In fact Pax kallergi created at 1299 and last 17 or 19 years,
after that Enetocracy came back to the island,
but with tottaly different proposal,

besides the Hurray goes to Cretans,
Who revolt both to Enetoi and Ottamanoi later
not the mercenairies

CAN YOU GIVE ME A REASON WHY CRETANS TO SUPPORT VENICE AT HANDAKAS SIEGE?
OR YOU LIKE ENETOCRACY AND WORK AS A MERCENAIRY

HANDAKAS WAS SOLD FOR 1400 DUCATS FROM ANDREA BARROZI
BARROZI WAS POISONED AT THE SECOND ATTEMPT,


BESIDES IT WAS NOT THE STRADIOTI WHO LIBERATE BALKANS,
IT WAS FILIKI.

THANKS TO FILIKI ETAIREIA GREECE WON INDEPENDANCE
AND AFTER GREECE ALL SOUTH BALKAN STATES
AND NOT THANKS TO STRADIOTI.

By READING THE PAX CALLERGI you will UNDERSTAND MANY,
Especially the priviledges, and land owning.

For The story
It was Malta knights who attack the Porta galleys
and took almost half of the harem,
and hide in Crete,
So it was ENETO-TURKISH WAR.
Why Occupied and Suprresed Cretans and generally Greeks should Care?


LABERIA
IF YOU DOT READ THE WHOLE PACK OF PAX KALLERGI,
AND THE VATICAN -VENICE DIFFERENCES THAT SPRUNG FROM IT
YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND CRETANS,
AND THEIR HALF-AUTONOMY.
PERIOD

that is why still I am curious why this thread open?
what purpose?
 
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Ο Κροκόδειλος (Κορκόδειλος-Κορκόντηλος-Ακροκόνδυλος) Κλαδάς (1425-1490) καταγόταν από τη Χιμάρα της Β. Ηπείρου και ήταν αλβανικής καταγωγής. Ο πατέρας του Θεόδωρος μετανάστευσε μαζί με άλλους Αλβανούς στην Πελοπόννησο όπου βρέθηκε στην υπηρεσία των Παλαιολόγων. Για τις υπηρεσίες του άλλωστε αυτές τού παραχωρήθηκαν εκτάσεις στην Μπαρδούνια της Μάνης όπου διατηρήθηκε το αρβανίτικο στοιχείο τουλάχιστον ως το 1821.




The Krokodeilos (Kordodilos-Korkontilos-Acrocondylos) of Kladas (1425-1490) originated from Chimara, Northern Epirus and was of Albanian descent. His father, Theodore, emigrated with other Albanians to the Peloponnese, where he was in the service of Palaiologos. For his services, he was given land in Barduuna of Mani, where the Arvanite element was preserved at least until 1821.

http://www.mani.org.gr/istor/klad2/kladas_arthro.htm

Yetos counter argument?????


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Yetos counter argument?????


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Corcondyl Clada.

his mentor was DaemonoGiannis

I have not found about his origin yet,

No counter argument for now,
Neither accept neither reject
 
Yetos counter argument?????


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
What counter argument? Just have a look at the bibliography:
Bibliography
- History of the Greek Nation (Publishing Athens), vol. I (1974), pp. 276-279.
- Odst. E. Vakalopoulos, History of New Hellenism, vol. III (1968), pp. 50-53.
- K. Sathas, Turkish-occupied Hellas, Athens 1869, pp. 37-38.
- K. Sathas, Hellenic Anecdotes, Vol. 1, Athens 1867.
- K. Sathas, Greeks in the Second World War and Revival of Hellenic Tactics, Athens 1885.
Published by TA NEA (11-08-2000)

History of the Greek nation, Sathas, Vakalopoulos. Top of the sources.
I am busy but i will try to find some times and translate the entire article.
 
where it writes such thing? Cause I know Turks had more than 60 000. Locals supported Ottomans merchandising food and simple things and not the ones in the castle. BUT GAIN THEIR PARTIALLY AUTONOMY In fact Pax kallergi created at 1299 and last 17 or 19 years, after that Enetocracy came back to the island, but with tottaly different proposal, besides the Hurray goes to Cretans, Who revolt both to Enetoi and Ottamanoi later not the mercenairies
Nothing to do with this Pax Kalergi Yetos. We have discussed before the role of the Orthodox Church. Emmanuel Tzanes was a painter of byzantine art in Candia at the time of the war, when the war of 1644 started, he fled to Corfù where he wrote a poem about the war. In that poem he wonders if it's better the Turks to win the war. Of course, Tzane's opinion represents the orthodox church's opinion about this war. There was an tradition in orthodox church established since the occupation of the City from Mehmet II in year 1453. The attitude of the orthodox church in the siege of Constantinople at 1453 where actually gave the City to the Turks while Latins alone fighting on the walls.
Gennadios_II_and_Mehmed_II.jpg
Sultan Mehmet Fatih with Patriarch of Constantinople, Genadius Scholarios. There are some sources that support the theory that Ottomans found Genadius in a market of slaves. They liberated and put him at the head of Orthodox Church. As Gennadios Scholarios was blaring during the siege of Constantinople ''Don't fight! It's God's will this city to be turkish!'' the same was repeated in the siege of Candia, i just don't have the citation yet. The facts confirm this. During the Venetian rule the orthodox high clergy was banned from Crete, only lower papades were allowed there so imo they, the church and of course the ecumenical patriarch naturally supported the Ottoman conquest. Already in 1646 when the Ottomans captured Rethymnon, the patriarch of Constantinaple appointed there Neophytos Patellaros as metropolitan of Crete under Ottoman protection. The guy was from a rich local family and a relative of the patriarch. The Ottomans also exempted the local orthodox priests and monks from the jizya for 30 years to win their support. Source for these: Elizabeth A. Zachariadou, Glances at the Greek Orthodox priests in the seventeenth century in: Living in the Ottoman Ecumenical Community, Essays in Honour of Suraiya Faroqhi,p. 310. The war wasn't even started yet when the orthodox church was taking office at rethymno. How confused will be a greek child if been learned all this at school? If considers what disaster the turks bring to the island right after the war. It`s an classic of human history, Yetos. In one hand the sword and in the other hand the cross.
CAN YOU GIVE ME A REASON WHY CRETANS TO SUPPORT VENICE AT HANDAKAS SIEGE? OR YOU LIKE ENETOCRACY AND WORK AS A MERCENAIRY HANDAKAS WAS SOLD FOR 1400 DUCATS FROM ANDREA BARROZI BARROZI WAS POISONED AT THE SECOND ATTEMPT,
A reason? Following your logic when you attack Albanians here, because Cretans were Christians like the Venetians.
BESIDES IT WAS NOT THE STRADIOTI WHO LIBERATE BALKANS, IT WAS FILIKI. THANKS TO FILIKI ETAIREIA GREECE WON INDEPENDANCE AND AFTER GREECE ALL SOUTH BALKAN STATES AND NOT THANKS TO STRADIOTI.
Absolutely not true. The story is completly different and this is an different discussion but let me bring you in reality:
In the meantime, the Ottomans crossed the Danube river with 30,000 tactical troops, and Ypsilantis, instead of advancing on Brăila, where he arguably could have prevented the Ottoman armies entering the Principalities and might have forced Russia to accept a fait accompli, retreated and organized his defense at a semi-mountainous area close to Iaşi. There followed a series of major battles that lead to the defeat of the Eteria's forces, culminating in the final defeat at Drăgăşani on 19 June. After a long march in the rain, Ypsilantis's army was exhausted, but Karavias, who was drunk led the Sacred Band into a charge against the Ottomans.[9] As the inexperienced and ill-trained men of the Sacred Band did not form squares, which would have allowed them to pack enough firepower together, the Ottoman cavalry had no difficulty in cutting down the rebels.[9] After the defeat, Ypsilantis fled north. Ypsilantis in his final declaration to his men refused to accept responsibility for his failure and blamed his men for all his failures, writing:
"Soldiers! No! I will no longer pollute that sacred and honourable name by applying it to you. You are a cowardly rabble!...You have broken your oaths, you have betrayed God and your country, you have betrayed me too at the moment when I hoped either to conquer or to die with honor among you...Run off to the Turks, who alone are worthy of your support...run off to the Turks, and kiss their hands from which still drips the blood of those they have inhumanly slaughtered. Yes! Run off to them, buy slavery with your lives and with the honor of your wives and children!"[10]
Ypsilantis's army booed him when he read out this declaration. Refuge

Ypsilantis, accompanied by what remained of his followers, retreated to Râmnic, where he spent some days in negotiating with the Austrian authorities for permission to cross the frontier. Fearing that his defeated followers might surrender him to the Turks, he gave out that Austria had declared war on Turkey, caused a Te Deum to be sung in the church of Cozia, and, on pretext of arranging measures with the Austrian commander-in-chief, crossed the frontier. But the reactionary policies of the Holy Alliance were enforced by Francis I and Klemens Metternich, and the country refused to give asylum for leaders of revolts in neighboring countries. Ypsilantis was kept in close confinement for seven years (1823 to 1827 in Terezín), until he was released at the insistence of the emperor Nicholas I of Russia.[11] Death

After his release, he retired to Vienna, where he died in extreme poverty and misery on 29 January 1828.[11]
A bunch of drunk people without experience. Meanwhile their leader Ypsilantis, ended in a prison after being betrayed by "greek merchants". All his "warriors", the slavs, etc, escaped. Who remained until the end in the battlefield, and this is not said in the article of Wiki, were two persons with their warriors, George Olimpi, probably a Vlach(some Albanians claim that he was Albanian but i have not found strong evidences in support of this thesis, so he was a Vlach in my opinion) and an Albanian, Ali Farmaki(not the friend of Kollokotronis, another Farmaki) with his Albanians. They both fought until the end, an classic this in the history of the Balcans, an Albanian and a Vlach, like Scanderbeg and Huniadi. Olimpi committed suicide, meanwhile Farmaki was captured alive by Ottomans and was impaled in Istanbul. The Great Powers decided the future of this region, not some insignificant semi-clandestine organisation.The most powerful man in the southern Balkans at that time was an Albanian Pasha, Ali Pasha of Tepelena. But these are long stories and not related with this topic.
By READING THE PAX CALLERGI you will UNDERSTAND MANY, Especially the priviledges, and land owning. For The story It was Malta knights who attack the Porta galleys and took almost half of the harem, and hide in Crete, So it was ENETO-TURKISH WAR. Why Occupied and Suprresed Cretans and generally Greeks should Care? LABERIA IF YOU DOT READ THE WHOLE PACK OF PAX KALLERGI, AND THE VATICAN -VENICE DIFFERENCES THAT SPRUNG FROM IT YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND CRETANS, AND THEIR HALF-AUTONOMY. PERIOD
Yetos, you can not continue with this kind of discussion, i know something but i will not tell you nothing you have to search yourself. If you know something that you consider important about this ainigmatic Pax Kalergi, open a thread and explain it. It`s so simple.
[that is why still I am curious why this thread open? what purpose?
I think this has been explained. Anyway, you are free to explain your point of view. P.S. Please, try to translate in English your post number 60. Thanks.
 
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Nothing to do with this Pax Kalergi Yetos. We have discussed before the role of the Orthodox Church. Emmanuel Tzanes was a painter of byzantine art in Candia at the time of the war, when the war of 1644 started, he fled to Corfù where he wrote a poem about the war. In that poem he wonders if it's better the Turks to win the war. Of course, Tzane's opinion represents the orthodox church's opinion about this war. There was an tradition in orthodox church established since the occupation of the City from Mehmet II in year 1453. The attitude of the orthodox church in the siege of Constantinople at 1453 where actually gave the City to the Turks while Latins alone fighting on the walls.
Gennadios_II_and_Mehmed_II.jpg
Sultan Mehmet Fatih with Patriarch of Constantinople, Genadius Scholarios. There are some sources that support the theory that Ottomans found Genadius in a market of slaves. They liberated and put him at the head of Orthodox Church. As Gennadios Scholarios was blaring during the siege of Constantinople ''Don't fight! It's God's will this city to be turkish!'' the same was repeated in the siege of Candia, i just don't have the citation yet. The facts confirm this. During the Venetian rule the orthodox high clergy was banned from Crete, only lower papades were allowed there so imo they, the church and of course the ecumenical patriarch naturally supported the Ottoman conquest. Already in 1646 when the Ottomans captured Rethymnon, the patriarch of Constantinaple appointed there Neophytos Patellaros as metropolitan of Crete under Ottoman protection. The guy was from a rich local family and a relative of the patriarch. The Ottomans also exempted the local orthodox priests and monks from the jizya for 30 years to win their support. Source for these: Elizabeth A. Zachariadou, Glances at the Greek Orthodox priests in the seventeenth century in: Living in the Ottoman Ecumenical Community, Essays in Honour of Suraiya Faroqhi,p. 310. The war wasn't even started yet when the orthodox church was taking office at rethymno. How confused will be a greek child if been learned all this at school? If considers what disaster the turks bring to the island right after the war. It`s an classic of human history, Yetos. In one hand the sword and in the other hand the cross. A reason? Following your logic when you attack Albanians here, because Cretans were Christians like the Venetians. Absolutely not true. The story is completly different and this is an different discussion but let me bring you in reality: A bunch of drunk people without experience. Meanwhile their leader Ypsilantis, ended in a prison after being betrayed by "greek merchants". All his "warriors", the slavs, etc, escaped. Who remained until the end in the battlefield, and this is not said in the article of Wiki, were two persons with their warriors, George Olimpi, probably a Vlach(some Albanians claim that he was Albanian but i have not found strong evidences in support of this thesis, so he was a Vlach in my opinion) and an Albanian, Ali Farmaki(not the friend of Kollokotronis, another Farmaki) with his Albanians. They both fought until the end, an classic this in the history of the Balcans, an Albanian and a Vlach, like Scanderbeg and Huniadi. Olimpi committed suicide, meanwhile Farmaki was captured alive by Ottomans and was impaled in Istanbul. The Great Powers decided the future of this region, not some insignificant semi-clandestine organisation.The most powerful man in the southern Balkans at that time was an Albanian Pasha, Ali Pasha of Tepelena. But these are long stories and not related with this topic. Yetos, you can not continue with this kind of discussion, i know something but i will not tell you nothing you have to search yourself. If you know something that you consider important about this ainigmatic Pax Kalergi, open a thread and explain it. It`s so simple. I think this has been explained. Anyway, you are free to explain your point of view. P.S. Please, try to translate in English your post number 60. Thanks.

hm
Church had always influence EVERYWHERE,
even in Albania, religion played a big role,
Religion many times STARTED WARS.

BUT IN CASE OF CRETE YOU WRONG,AND NOT ONLY WRONG BUT...
What in purpose you do not see,or search, is what really happened,

ok lets see one by one,
First you say that Church (possibly you mean the Orthodox and not the Catholic) gave Con/polis and about Scholarios
BUT YOU SUPPORT STRADIOTI, SO PROBALY YOU ARE WITH GEMISTOS PLITHON,
STRATIOTES CARRY THE IDEA OF ΠΛΗΘΩΝ ΓΕΜΙΣΤΟΣ,
SO YOU ARE CONFUSED CLEARLY EVEN ABOUT WHAT STRADIOTI REPRESENT AS IDEA.

I SUGGEST READ HER WORK
%CE%91%CE%A1%CE%92%CE%95%CE%9B%CE%95%CE%A1.jpg


YOU USE HER MANY TIMES,YOU KNOW HER, ELENI GLYKATZI ARBELER.

SECOND
THE FALL OF CON?POLIS TO TURKS WAS THE SECOND ONE.
THE FIRST WAS TO CRUSADERS OF 4RTH CRUSADE.
THE ERA IS NAMED LATINOCRACY
AND MAKES CLEAR THE GREEK STATES, VS THE CRUSADERS STATES,
THE EPIKOYREIAN PHILOSOPHY CRUSADERS,
WHO SWORN LIBERTY TO 'HOLY PLACES"
LIBERATED EAST ROMAN EMPIRE, BY THE ROMANS!!!!!!!!


THIRD,
for the story of Con/polis fall to Muhamad 2nd also has minor stories,
a decade before that happened the Ferrara- Firenze congress of Christian churches.
the Indulgence Jubile of Vatican Ιντouλγκεντσιες Ιωβηλαιου,
manage to gather a lot of money,
But they were used by the Aragonese, in tottaly different purposes.
Con/polis was defended by Palaiologos,
The Russian LATIN patriarch sender, Isidoros of Kiev
and The 3 galleys of Genovese defenders,
I suggest read Pope Pius 2nd about that,
and the effects of Ferrara-Firenze concress.
ON CONTADICTORY,MUHAMED 2nd build RUMELI HISAR,
RUMELI HISAR BLOCK ANY HELP FROM WEST,ONLY TH GENOVESE FLEET PAST IT.
RUMELI HISAR GUARD WAS MAINLY BY BALKAN PEOPLE,TILL GATHER THE FORCES FROM EAST,
MUHAMED GATHERS MORE THAN 100 000 Army there, for some 200 000
THE ETHNICITIES BY % ARE
TURKS
ALBANIANS
MULSIMIZED BYZANTINES
SERBIANS

FACT NO 1.

OUTSIDE AT LEAST 100 000 multinatianal force,
inside 4500 Byzantines and 3 galleys of Justiniani Genovese.
the fall started By death of Justiniani,
his death drop the morale of the Genovese
,and since only they could pass the Keratios,
their work change to load the galleys with the sacred relicks,
They left few hours before the fall,
so when Turks entered they were sailing, carrying the relicks, and the city empty
a city of 70 000 around 1438 had only 10 000 people and few guards at the fall,
THEY EMPTY THE CITY BEFORE SIEGE......


FACT No2
when you write about Scholarios you are right,
and have big truth about him and the monks.
He was cursing the defenders, and send Byzantine Youth to monasteries
just not to fight for Con/polis
THAT IS MOHAMED 2nd gave him Millet.
and he restored the Athos 'Holy mountain' monasteric properties


FACT NO3

Vatican in case of Con/polis show tottaly a different face than with Crusade 4rth,
I will not enter why or what,
BUT that time face an inner possible schisma,which should first arrange

THE ABOVE ARE FACTS,

CON/POLIS FELT DUE TO THE ARMY THAT MUHAMAD MANAGE TO GATHER,AND HIS MONEY, AND DIPLOMACY
AND DUE TO DIVISION OF BYZANTINES,
THE FERRARA-FIRENZE CONGRESS MADE A LOT OF DAMAGE TO EAST,
THAN HELP KEEP THE EAST ROMAN EMPIRE.
and WHEN WE SPEAK ABOUT CHURCHES AND CLERICS,
MY OPINION IS HYPOCRISY IS BEHIND
It was not the Vatican responsible to save Con/polis
Neither was Scholarios or specially Isidoros the Latin patriarch of Con/poli
ssimply the foundamentalism among church fanatics,
HELPED ONLY THE TURKS AND THEIR DIPLOMACY.
A LESSON TO BOTH EAST AND WEST,
THAT WEST REALIZE IT AFTER THE Pope PIOS 2nd,
WEST (catholics) COULD NOT POSSES OR DEFEND EAST,AND HAD NO JOB TO RULE AT THE EAST,
EAST (Orthodox) DOGMATIC DEFENDING AND STERILE DIPLOMACY IS JUST BRINGING SHRINKING,
Church manage to save monasteries and properties,but shrunk,
shrunk to the limit of almost non existance.


ABOUT HANDAKAS (candia)
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHURCH OR CON/POLIS OR WHATEVER YOU CLAIM
CRETE BELONGS TO JERUSALEM PATRIARCHATE,
AS CONCERNS RELIGIONA TOTTALY DIFFERENT APROACH THAN CON/POLIS.
HALF GREEK, HALF ARAB, SPEAKING, BUT ROMEO- CATHOLIC by 5/12
THAT IS WHY ARABS WANTED BEFORE, WHEN THEY OCCUPIED JERUSALEM.


Fact No 1
4rth Crusade,Crete is Given to Bonifat de Monferat,who then sells it etc etc
SOLD GIVEN SOLD GIVEN SOLD
I suggest you know the Greek rhime
κολοκυθια στον Πάτερο, send pumpkins to Pateros.
which comes from that Era.

FACT NO2
Crete is Venician occupation and even in few decades start revolts there,
the one that manage to change the status was the PAX KALLERGI,
PAX KALLERGI last 17-19 years,
BUT GAVE THE WEST AN IMPORTAND MEANING,
NO OCUPATION WITH OUT ACCEPTED AND EQUAL RULES,
and citizenship
Ι Suggest find the terms
PAX KALLERGI IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TREATIES TO THE WESTERN MEDIEVAL WORLD.
ALTHOUGH IS ONE OF THE LESS KNOWN.
Only the term that Kallergi and Cretans took back their land, while Pope Clement 5th lost His properties,
you understand the measure of the treaty.
Pax Kallergi is a big achievement of Cretans,
and although siezed 17 years after,
still gave Cretans dignity, and participation on how the land should be ruled,
a kind of Autonomy Not the castle, the land outside.
IT WAS A STARTING POINT TO ACCEPT OR REVOLT TO AN ERA CALLED ENETOCRACY




Fact No 3
the Eneto-Turkish wars were many.
The one you mention at 1640-1670 about started by Malta Knights, which use Crete to hide,
after Attacking Ottomans,an Attack to the caravan of pilgrims returning from Mekka, and half of his harem
is tottaly something outrageous for Islamic populations,
So the anger of Porta would not stop until erase either Venicians from Crete, even the island hershelf,
No matter treaties etc etc happened to protect it, it was doomed, for the forces of Sultan were tremendous,
and THE CRETANS POSSIBLY HAD NO WILL TO HELP THE VENICIANS WHO REGREAT THE PAX KALLERGI, and cancel it
AND WHY SHOULD THEY CARE FOR THE FEUDAL SYSTEM or Aristicracy THAT VENICE PROMOTE (compare Libro d' oro in other areas, etc etc)
In their mind is not to protect Venician Aristocrates, but their island from massacres that might happened.
AND I ASK YOU,AMONG 2 OCCUPIERS, WHICH ONE YOU CHOOSE?
So what happenned is that Cretans did not risk to trade and merchant with food the castles,
but merchandise with Ottomans, and did not evolve resisting Ottomans,
On Contradictory, they left them alone, and that is why we had no atrocities,

Fact No 4
Handakas (candia) castle was sold,
Not Taken, NEITHER FELT
DOES THIS REMINDS YOU SOMETHING? LIKE THE 4rth Crusade?
the 'PATEROS PUMKINS'
Andrea Barrozi took 1400 Ducats,
remember that Nicolo Palaiologo was paid 2 Ducats per month By the city Brescia as Stradioti for a group of 21 knights
POST #60 you ask Is his letter to accepted and serve Venice
So I answer you to that.


FACT No 5
THE VENICIAN-ITALIAN COLONIES/DWELLINGS IN CRETE
What You do not see is this, (I do not want to believe, that you do it in purpose)
Crete had 2 major Venician Italian colonies
one was in Chania, and one in Lasithi plateau, especially the last was outside the city walls numbering if remember correct 3 000-10 000 Venicians
if you are old in the forum there was a thread about them and their genetics
THEY ARE STILL THERE
as the genetic shows,But they become one with Cretans and their philosophy,possibly participated at the Crete Liberation strungles
WHICH MEANS THAT ONLY THE DEFENDERS of Castle LEFT CRETE
,
WHILE VENICIANS OUTSIDE CASTLE REMAIN IN CRETE,
WHY? WHAT HAPPENED AND THEY STAY WITH NO ARMY TO PROTECT THEM?


Fact No 6
THE SEMI-AUTONOMOUS CRETE
Crete after that war gains priviledges, that did not had before, even with Pax Kallergi,
Even Autonomy in many things
Until the era of Egyptian occupation.
That Autonomy is one of the important in Greek paligenesia
remember Karaiskakis,he had 600 Cretans infantry and navy at the siege of Athens,
even after the Orlov's

PS
Tottaly Different thinking?
or for propaganda reasons?

2 things we must notice as balkanic people

1, When Romans enter Balkans, Illyrians resist,
Their efforts remained in History as Illyrian wars,
As Makedonian and Greek I am proud that my ancestors also resist

2. When Mussolini enter Balkans, Albanians did not resist.
Greeks even today celebrate the 'OXI day' considering it the second most precious word for their indepentence.

tell me Laberia,
as an Albanian and possibly claiming ancestry from Illyrians,
what do you think about that?
DOES THE FEELING OF ANCESTRY CHANGED AFTER 2 millenias?
OR SOMETHING ELSE?
IT IS THE FEELING AND THE MOOD OF THE LOCALS ACCORDING ERA AND INDEPEDENCE
BEAUTY IS THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
TRUE DEFENDER IS THE ONE WHO LIVES IN THE AREA.
 
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Yes,but ,if you are an extremely fast talking guy ,who always smiles(or,more precisely,always uses the same smile;for instance,a Greek,an Italian,a Slav,etc.),the Church can use you, to create demographic imbalances,by acting like a rabbit.

"I will bang her,like the Deaf hits the(church) bell", the Romanian joke says,in the very traditional ,shepherd ,manly ,manner.
In other words,it has to be something really special...


http://www.taranisme.ro/files/images/large/o_sa_dau_in_ea-1.jpg
 
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hm

Church had always influence EVERYWHERE,
even in Albania, religion played a big role,
Religion many times STARTED WARS.
I didn't said that Church started the war. I said that Orthodox Church has sided with Ottomans.
BUT IN CASE OF CRETE YOU WRONG,
AND NOT ONLY WRONG BUT...

What in purpose you do not see,
or search, is what really happened,

Why you think that i am wrong?
ok lets see one by one,
First you say that Church (possibly you mean the Orthodox and not the Catholic) gave Con/polis and about Scholarios
Yes, exactly.
BUT YOU SUPPORT STRADIOTI,
I don`t support nobody, i am trying to give my contribution in this thread.
SO PROBALY YOU ARE WITH GEMISTOS PLITHON,
STRATIOTES CARRY THE IDEA OF ΠΛΗΘΩΝ ΓΕΜΙΣΤΟΣ,
What exactly was this idea and how stradiotes carried this idea? Can you help us to understand better it?
SO YOU ARE CONFUSED CLEARLY EVEN ABOUT WHAT STRADIOTI REPRESENT AS IDEA.
I don`t think that i am confused. I know perfectly what stradioti represented.
I SUGGEST READ HER WORK

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YOU USE HER MANY TIMES,
YOU KNOW HER, ELENI GLYKATZI ARBELER.
What exactly she said? You can quote her and save us some time.
 
for what?

For Pax Kallergi?
or for Andrea Barozzi?


palazzo-vendramin-calergi.jpg


Vendramin - Kalergi.

as for the info

Search the 'Fede Amorosa', a thetrical play
Dedicated to Kalergi family and Kalerga Kalergi
Venice 1620.

for Andrea Barozzi
I am sure you can find a lot in Intranet.

one of the top writers for Candia
is Ιωαννης 'Κομνενος' Παπαδοπουλος
his books Occio
in Italian Zuane 'Comneno' papadopoli from Padova
he was not a Comnenos, he just used that title.


Qui tandem habito refpe£tu , quòd pax femper bonum inducebat , guerra verò malum , contenti fuerunt ad pacem & concordiam cum Venetis pervenire ; Cujus guerræ ... De reverfione Alexii Calergi ad Nuncios Januenfium. f H Ic Alexius tempore guerræ cum 3anuenfìbus nuper præteritæ per folemnes eorum.

Rerum Italicares Scriptores ....



http://romeartlover.tripod.com/Venezia.html

click on santorino
 
Nothing to do with this Pax Kalergi Yetos. We have discussed before the role of the Orthodox Church. Emmanuel Tzanes was a painter of byzantine art in Candia at the time of the war, when the war of 1644 started, he fled to Corfù where he wrote a poem about the war. In that poem he wonders if it's better the Turks to win the war. Of course, Tzane's opinion represents the orthodox church's opinion about this war. There was an tradition in orthodox church established since the occupation of the City from Mehmet II in year 1453. The attitude of the orthodox church in the siege of Constantinople at 1453 where actually gave the City to the Turks while Latins alone fighting on the walls.
Gennadios_II_and_Mehmed_II.jpg
Sultan Mehmet Fatih with Patriarch of Constantinople, Genadius Scholarios. There are some sources that support the theory that Ottomans found Genadius in a market of slaves. They liberated and put him at the head of Orthodox Church. As Gennadios Scholarios was blaring during the siege of Constantinople ''Don't fight! It's God's will this city to be turkish!'' the same was repeated in the siege of Candia, i just don't have the citation yet. The facts confirm this. During the Venetian rule the orthodox high clergy was banned from Crete, only lower papades were allowed there so imo they, the church and of course the ecumenical patriarch naturally supported the Ottoman conquest. Already in 1646 when the Ottomans captured Rethymnon, the patriarch of Constantinaple appointed there Neophytos Patellaros as metropolitan of Crete under Ottoman protection. The guy was from a rich local family and a relative of the patriarch. The Ottomans also exempted the local orthodox priests and monks from the jizya for 30 years to win their support. Source for these: Elizabeth A. Zachariadou, Glances at the Greek Orthodox priests in the seventeenth century in: Living in the Ottoman Ecumenical Community, Essays in Honour of Suraiya Faroqhi,p. 310. The war wasn't even started yet when the orthodox church was taking office at rethymno. How confused will be a greek child if been learned all this at school? If considers what disaster the turks bring to the island right after the war. It`s an classic of human history, Yetos. In one hand the sword and in the other hand the cross. A reason? Following your logic when you attack Albanians here, because Cretans were Christians like the Venetians. Absolutely not true. The story is completly different and this is an different discussion but let me bring you in reality: A bunch of drunk people without experience. Meanwhile their leader Ypsilantis, ended in a prison after being betrayed by "greek merchants". All his "warriors", the slavs, etc, escaped. Who remained until the end in the battlefield, and this is not said in the article of Wiki, were two persons with their warriors, George Olimpi, probably a Vlach(some Albanians claim that he was Albanian but i have not found strong evidences in support of this thesis, so he was a Vlach in my opinion) and an Albanian, Ali Farmaki(not the friend of Kollokotronis, another Farmaki) with his Albanians. They both fought until the end, an classic this in the history of the Balcans, an Albanian and a Vlach, like Scanderbeg and Huniadi. Olimpi committed suicide, meanwhile Farmaki was captured alive by Ottomans and was impaled in Istanbul. The Great Powers decided the future of this region, not some insignificant semi-clandestine organisation.The most powerful man in the southern Balkans at that time was an Albanian Pasha, Ali Pasha of Tepelena. But these are long stories and not related with this topic. Yetos, you can not continue with this kind of discussion, i know something but i will not tell you nothing you have to search yourself. If you know something that you consider important about this ainigmatic Pax Kalergi, open a thread and explain it. It`s so simple. I think this has been explained. Anyway, you are free to explain your point of view. P.S. Please, try to translate in English your post number 60. Thanks.

http://romeartlover.tripod.com/Creta.html
 
Guys you quote me before I finish

The Importance of Venice to modern thinking, and generally modern world
Conserning the East Roman empire , and the Crete island

Venice was not a city,
but rather a league, a coalition,
a democracy which included many nationalities, and religion,

we know that in Venice might started the foundation of modern economical system on which is based the West (banking and papper usage)

but lets start from the begin

Venice is gather of islands, a small pellagos,
the sea is not deep so not huge battleship can reach.
that is placed East of Alps, and has passages to Central and North Europe
in this islands lived different minorities,
like Jews, Armenians, etc

that makes the place ideal for merchantise, storage/warehouse,
with a natural protection,
and priviledge to land passages and sea routes.

Venicians realize that, and the era of byzantine collapse,
took the advantage and manage this small island complex, to make it so important
that Even the emperrors could not handle,

Their succes was emporion,
their keys were the naval roads to middle East and Byzantion, Ottomans later,
as also the Silk and Amber,
later they create their own industries, specially in glass, needed for merchantise the smells,
spices, parfumes etc.

in older to hold, needs to control castles and naval convoy stops,
so She needs islands, and treaties,
easy and small to control and defend,

the fall of Byzantine gave her an oprtunity to sprung to the elite merchant cities,
reaching no 1, and overpass manytimes the big aplle of mediterenean, the Con/polis

Venice change many times her traditional laws,
especially about minorities,
like in case of Stradioti and san Giorgio church,
Giving her more power, and rich, and prestige,
ideal for multinational, multireligious trade.

Venice also came in contra with Pope,
as in case of Crete and kallergi,
setting rules, tottaly different than the ones used in the same era,

All these until corruption of too much gathered rich,
and decadense of Aristocracy,


Venice earned a lot by Greeks, and from the castles she used in Greece,
Also Greeks earned from Venice on having areas not fully occupied by Ottomans.

It was a vice versa trade/relationship
which many times worked perfect.
and many times did not due to Aristocracy, or other reasons.

Finished.
 
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Guys you quote me before I finish

You comment one sentence, then you edit it one hour later and it triples in size. Editing to fix a type or even add an extra sentence is no issue, but your posts always triple in size, and often change
and add entirely new things that change the meaning of the post so that replies seem like they are irrelevant.

You should wait and comment it all in one go rather than keeping on editing it.
 
You comment one sentence, then you edit it one hour later and it triples in size. Editing to fix a type or even add an extra sentence is no issue, but your posts always triple in size, and often change
and add entirely new things that change the meaning of the post so that replies seem like they are irrelevant.

You should wait and comment it all in one go rather than keeping on editing it.

Sorry

but I am not prepaired to make copy/paste
 
Régiment albanais 1807-1814


Google translation from french:
Albanian Regiment 1807-1814






When France took possession of the Ionian Islands in 1807, following the treaty of Tilsitt, General César Berthier, governor of the Seven Islands proposed to the Emperor to take in his pay a body of 3,000 Albanians dismissed by the Russians, as well as a guard of 500 men who was in Corfu.
By a decision of October 12, 1807, the Emperor approved the measure by prescribing that there would be attached a French colonel to command them.
It was Colonel Minot who was placed at the head of this body on November 30, 1807. The Albanian regiment was organized in six battalions to six companies, including one elite.
It was reorganized by decree of July 1st, 1809.
On November 6, 1813, he was reduced by decree to two battalions of six companies.

Uniform: The Albanian regiment wore an oriental outfit which we know in a rather detailed way thanks to the description that we gave General Camus de Richemont in his Memoirs:


"The costume of the Albanians or Arnaut is about that of the islanders of Greece: the head shaved around the forehead, temples and neck, leaving only a large disc of long hair falling from behind and which are covered at their summit, by a small fez, purple color, with embroidery in small stripes and a puff of gold or silk; gaiters in scarlet velvet or sky blue, also laced and rising at the birth of the knee. The foot is enclosed in a shoe similar to that of the Spanish mountaineers, but more elegantly braided and adapting to the lower part of the leg like the Roman corbel. A shirt of strong white linen or rather a tunic covers a pair of underpants and falls like a wide skirt below the knees; on top of this tunic, a short and round jacket, in velvet of the same color as that of the gaiters, with a gold braid, squeezes and draws the waist; its sleeves, open to the elbow, are attached by a multitude of little buttons of shiny metal and are furnished with braids of gold, wrists at the elbows. A long girdle of silk or wool of brilliant color, with flowing gold, wraps around the kidneys over the tunic; this belt supports two long pistols whose barrel and butt are covered by a silver trim. The chef is particularly distinguished by two rows of silver buttons, the size of a turkey egg, which are mounted on a narrow band of morocco, which passes over the neck and falls in double ahead to the belt; these buttons are hollow and open like so many cassolettes. A long Albanian rifle and a curved saber complete the armament. The most important and useful part of this costume is a big and heavy coat, goat hair cloth, rain-proof; he wears his left shoulder and it is a shame to lose him or abandon him in a fight. At the bivouac, he shelters his man from the cold, the snow and the rain; each soldier gathers and forms a pile of thorns or fagots; he stands on top of it and crouches under his coat like a tent of felt; the water may fall in torrents, it flows under the fagots without reaching the man. "
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„Armata balcanica a lui Napoleon”, mit sau realitate? O carte aparuta in Croatia despre „pandurii” albanezi din trupele imperiale
Marius Dobrescu
Istorie, NR. 13 - Aprilie 2018

Google translation from romanian:
"Napoleon's Balkan Army," myth or reality? A book in Croatia about the Albanian "pandour" of the imperial troops

545_rev_pic1.jpg

Along their history, the Albanians, renowned for their virtues of good fighters, served as foreign armies. The phenomenon is not unknown to us: the gentlemen and princesses of the Romanian lands hired them as troops of protection and guard, and in folk tradition they remained as arnauts, a name passed through the Turkish language.


Their confidence and devotion recommended them to the great commanders of the hosts; the historical springs show us as auxiliary troops in the armies of ancient Rome, then in the Ottoman, and not to mention modern and contemporary times, when Albanian detachments fought alongside Greeks, Serbs, Italians and others. But the French.

200 years ago, when Napoleon Bonaparte was at the height of glory, and the French armies underwent almost all of Europe, three thousand Albanians fought shoulder to shoulder with the imperial grenadiers. Albanian battalions operated across the Balkan Peninsula, from Croatia to Greece, with the aim of preventing English from infiltrating the region. Croatian historian Vladimir Brnardici takes up this historic fact in his book "Napoleon's Balkan Army," and details the participation of Albanians as mercenaries in battles in the Balkans against English forces. The above-mentioned work also talks about the reasons why Bonaparte appealed to Albanian mercenaries, as well as about his intention to form a special Albanian unit, which he embraced in the Imperial Guard, which eventually failed. About the French rule of the Balkans (in the Ionian islands, Dalmatia, Istria and the Illyrian provinces) was extremely small, although it was recorded in an appreciable period of about 16 years (1797-1814). However, the French influence in the area was quite significant. It has been established that at Napoleon's campaigns in 1812 eleven battalions from the ilir lands, ie about eight thousand fighters, participated. In fact, the French imperial army had in its composition several Balkan units, in which the Albanians were distinguished not only by an unanimously recognized anarchic spirit but also by devotion and manhood.

"Albanian Pandurii" - bodyguards for imperialists

After having secured the Kataro Bay, on the southernmost coast of the Dalmatian coast, the French constituted the Battalion "Pandours du Cattaro" on June 1, 1810, whose mission was to defend the territory newly conquered by the attacks of the Montenegrin neighbors. The battalion consisted of six companies of about 50 fighters each, but the total number of units never exceeded 200 soldiers. On November 8, 1811, this battalion was increased to eight companies, changing its name to the "Albanian Battalion". Later, the unit was renamed in the "Albanian Pandurii" (Pandours d'Albania). The battalion participated in the battles against the Montenegrins, whose troops caught by surprise the French positions in the area, but also the defense of the Dalmatian coast against the Austrian attacks in 1813. The many desertions weakened the force of this military unit. The reasons were economic, but also personal, so at the end of 1813, the battalion ceased its existence and was dissolved.

Ilire units participate in the Russian campaign

At the beginning of 1810, Vladimir Brnardici writes in his work, Napoleon Bonaparte wanted to establish a military unit to enlist troops in areas not directly engaged in the "ilirica" ​​war: Croatia, Rijeka, ex-austrian Istria, Karinthia, Gorizia and Trieste. This regiment was established on 16 November 1810 and was officially constituted at Liubliana at the end of the same year. Subsequently, the unit was sent to Turin, Italy, to be properly endowed and equipped. In 1811, the five-battalion regiment was incorporated into the French army. In fact, some of the officers were French, the rest Belgian and Austrian, and the commander had been named Colonel Nikola Schmit. Among them, there were also several graduates from the areas where the recruitment had taken place. The Illyrian Regiment took part in the Napoleonic campaign in Russia, namely in the battles of Minsk, Kovno, Valentino-Gora and Krasnoi, near Moscow. Losses in soldiers and officers were particularly high. A battalion of this regiment, attached to the Army Corps of Marshal Oudinot, took part in the great Battle of Leipzig in 1814. Apart from this regiment, the French Army also had "Les troupes Septinsulaire", units with Greek, Albanians and Italians from the seven islands of the Ionian Sea: Corfu, Kefalonia, Zakinthos, Paksos, Lefakada, Itaka and Tzerigos. Because they came exclusively from the Dalmatian coastline, they were called "illicit troops", and the officers and non-commissioned officers were mixed: French, but also commanders and local bosses. The band was dissolved in 1814.

Napoleon's Albanian Regiment

The French military authorities have also set up a one-percent Albanian regiment. It originated a special unit formed by the Russians in 1799, then given to the French in 1807, when they reclaimed the Ionian islands. On October 12, 1807, Napoleon decreed the recruitment of three thousand Albanians, most of the refugees in the way of Ali Pasha de Janina. These military forces regrouped and constituted the Albanian Regiment on December 12, 1807, consisting of three battalions, each with three companies. In spite of massive recruitment, the regiment never reached 3254 soldiers, as stated in the founding document. At the same time, the French formed a battalion called "Chasseurs a pied grecs", which was also made up of Albanians from the Ionian islands. This unit consisted of 951 fighters.
The Albanian Regiment has been deployed in several garrisons set up in the Greek islands. Because fighters were volunteers, and discipline was not their strong point, soldiers and officers often disappeared from units left either to their families or around to "get" what they needed. The most significant confrontations with the English forces took place in October 1809, when the Albanian fighters showed admirable bravery. Another part of the regiment, stationed in Corfu, was not engaged in direct fights.
On November 6, 1813, the regiment was reorganized with a new command and a band consisting of 470 officers and non-commissioned officers and 1204 fighters, to which were unofficially added 1036 women and children, 1426 goats, 36 horses, asses, cows saddle The suggestion that some of them join the Naples army, and five hundred Imperial Guards, was unsuccessful. Only three knights, equipped and armed according to the Albanian tradition, managed to reach Paris and obtain the approval of the French Minister of War to join the Guard in the battles of 1814. Finally, after the withdrawal of the French troops from the Ionian Islands, the Albanian Regiment entered under the supervision of the English Command, and then officially dissolved on 21 June 1814.

According to Vladimir Brnardici, Marshal Marmont proposed to Emperor Napoleon that Albanian troops should be equipped with the French light infantry uniform, a proposal to which the sovereign would have opposed. Finally, an outfit was chosen close to the popular Albanian people in southern Greece and northern Greece, different from soldiers to officers. The weapon was the beginning of the 19th century. In addition, the wealthy embroidered the oriental hanger adorned with ornaments and precious stones, which distinguished them from the rest of the band and attracted admirative curiosities of the imperial grenadier.
 
It seem that Stratiotes go way back.
The comitatenses of the old Roman field armies, in Justinian's day these were more commonly called stratiotai. Regular soldiers of the Roman army, the stratiotai were chiefly recruited from subjects of the empire in the highlands of Thrace, Illyricum and Isauria.
 

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