Is your brain more Western or more Eastern? - part 1

[Tomenable]

To which group of flowers does the flower at the bottom belong: A or B:



One of these answers is more typical for people of the Occident and one for people of the Orient.

Orient: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_world
Occident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

Link to part 2 - https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...Eastern-part-2

[Tomenable]

Explanation of part 1 is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoDtoB9Abck#t=0m15s

But please don't watch before voting and don't comment without spoilers.

[Azzurro]

Chose A, makes more sense for me with the 3 flowers having a leaf.

[LeBrok]

On first glance my eyes went to group A as having more similarity. After deeper analyzing though, I chose group B, as the flower in right lower corner seems the most similar, and the thick stem makes strong correlating impression on me.

Interesting exercise.

[davef]

B as well. A is wrong bc every flower in A differs in at least one way from each other except for their stems, so membership depends on the stem being curved and the subject doesn't meet that requirement.

Every flower in B has the same stem shape as each other as well as the subject so it belongs in B.

[Mark]

B due to the stem.

[AdeoF]

I put A because there are more leaves there

[Moi-même]

I chose A. 3/4 flowers have round petal, 3/4 flowers have single circle center and 3/4 have a leave. Only 1/4 has the right stem, but everything else is right.

In group B, 1/4 flower has the right petal, 1/4 has the right center and 1/4 has a leave. Sure they all have the right stem, but everything else is wrong.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

I chose A, this was by instinct and not with me analysing it.

[Mark]

I chose A, this was by instinct and not with me analysing it.

My immediate reaction was A without thinking, yes but once I thought for a second, I went B firmly.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

I think this one is a lot less interesting than the cylinder one.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

My immediate reaction was A without thinking, yes but once I thought for a second, I went B firmly.

I can't even see why anybody would put B... I mean only one has a petal, and the flower seems a lot tighter. The stem is pretty insignificant to me at least.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

It seems that Asians focus more on properties of the shape, whereas Westerners focus more on the shape itself. This is particularly clear with the example of the cylinder, but still true here.

Perhaps this reflects somehow some kind of Western "big picture" thinking, compared to Eastern "small details" thinking. I can see that as plausible.

The Western mindset here is definitely the greater, though this isn't the kind of thing where it's clear cut.

If you consider Plato's realm of the forms - that is very much in the Western style of thinking. And for Asians, it's the properties that count, not the essence of the form.

At the end of the day, if you look at a wooden cylinder - it is a cylinder, and the wood is only a property of it being a cylinder. So this distinction between form and properties should hopefully be elucidating in the way I've outlined above, and I think it's pretty accurate considering various stereotypes of thought.

Great post! Don't take it too far and say that because I'm Ashkenazi, and about 50% European and 50% West Asian, I split down the middle! Also, it would be interesting to see if there is variation within Caucasians, and to which group e.g. Western Asians belong to most (to see if this is really European distinctiveness rather than Caucasian - I suspect it is more of a generally Caucasian trait).

[davef]

Why choose B? If you think of it this way...what are the things that every flower in group A has in common? What makes it a group? Is it a group of flowers with leaves? No. Because not every flower has a leaf. We cannot call it the flowers with leaves group. Is it a group of flowers without an extra ring? No. Because there is one flower with an extra ring on its "face". But do they all have a curvy stem in common? Absolutely. We can call group A the curvy stem group.

Does the subject flower have a curvey stem like group A? It does not. Group B is united in the same way as group B on the basis of having the same stem which matches the stem of the subject which is why the subject belongs there (imo).

[Mark]

Why choose B? If you think of it this way...what are the things that every flower in group A has in common? What makes it a group? Is it a group of flowers with leaves? No. Because not every flower has a leaf. We cannot call it the flowers with leaves group. Is it a group of flowers without an extra ring? No. Because there is one flower with an extra ring on its "face". But do they all have a curvy stem in common? Absolutely. We can call group A the curvy stem group.

Does the subject flower have a curvey stem like group A? It does not. Group B is united in the same way as group B on the basis of having the same stem which matches the stem of the subject which is why the subject belongs there (imo).

This precisely. Both sides have all features except for the stems. The stems are the categorical character. This is especially true since the type of stem indicates the type of plant the flower grows on, special.

[Mark]

Up and down, I saw the arguments for both options in all of the association questions but my immediate and gut response to all seems to side with Asians. For the wood cylinder I chose wood with wood, I ended up siding with B on the flowers but my gut was A, I felt the smiling boy was emitting a mean/rude/nasty/sardonic/cruel emotion when surrounded by the angry people and my gut told me the monkey and banana went together though my logical centers stepped in immediately with “mammals, duh.”

[Moi-même]

Does the subject flower have a curvey stem like group A? It does not. Group B is united in the same way as group B on the basis of having the same stem which matches the stem of the subject which is why the subject belongs there (imo).

But on the other hand (the Eastern hand I guess xD ) flowers in group B only diverge from the norm by one element. One has no leaf, one has pointy petals, one has a double circle center. The fifth flower only diverge by the stem, which is consistent with the group.

The four flowers of group B are also only one element from there group's norm. But the fifth flower diverge by the petals, the leaf and the center. Even if all these are found among other flowers of the group, #5 is the only one which diverge by more than 1 element.

[Johane Derite]

It seems that Asians focus more on properties of the shape, whereas Westerners focus more on the shape itself. This is particularly clear with the example of the cylinder, but still true here.

Perhaps this reflects somehow some kind of Western "big picture" thinking, compared to Eastern "small details" thinking. I can see that as plausible.

The Western mindset here is definitely the greater, though this isn't the kind of thing where it's clear cut.

If you consider Plato's realm of the forms - that is very much in the Western style of thinking. And for Asians, it's the properties that count, not the essence of the form.

At the end of the day, if you look at a wooden cylinder - it is a cylinder, and the wood is only a property of it being a cylinder. So this distinction between form and properties should hopefully be elucidating in the way I've outlined above, and I think it's pretty accurate considering various stereotypes of thought.

Great post! Don't take it too far and say that because I'm Ashkenazi, and about 50% European and 50% West Asian, I split down the middle! Also, it would be interesting to see if there is variation within Caucasians, and to which group e.g. Western Asians belong to most (to see if this is really European distinctiveness rather than Caucasian - I suspect it is more of a generally Caucasian trait).

Slow down bud. This is a fun experiment in frame of reference but nothing more.

The question they ask the public is vague. They say "X is Dax, Is A or B Dax?."

Some people see the continuity of the substance (same wood chopped into different shapes) whereas some see the continuity of shape (same shape with different material).

Depending on what the person thinks the person is asking them they will answer accordingly.


Its totally arbitrary and depends on the frame of reference. No need to delve into racial theories.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_...oldformat=true

[Mark]

Slow down bud. This is a fun experiment in frame of reference but nothing more.

The question they ask the public is vague. They say "X is Dax, Is A or B Dax?."

When they asked “which of these is dax?” I wanted to scream “neither!” Like, “Dax is a wooden cylinder, you JUST defined it and neither of those are really Dax put that way!”

[davef]

But on the other hand (the Eastern hand I guess xD ) flowers in group B only diverge from the norm by one element. One has no leaf, one has pointy petals, one has a double circle center. The fifth flower only diverge by the stem, which is consistent with the group.

The four flowers of group B are also only one element from there group's norm. But the fifth flower diverge by the petals, the leaf and the center. Even if all these are found among other flowers of the group, #5 is the only one which diverge by more than 1 element.

Moi-même, the only issue is that in group A, the bottom left flower differs from the upper right flower by 2, but I think I see your train of thought, and it's pretty clever :). You say that if we include the subject flower into group A, then we have a group defined by the number of ways each member differs, which is one, correct?

Im kinda thinking along the lines of set-theory, this wiring comes from my backgound in computer science.

[Moi-même]

You say that if we include the subject flower into group A, then we have a group defined by the number of ways each member differs, which is one, correct?

Exactly. Thanks for understanding even though I wrote groupe B instead of group A in the first paragraphe. -_-

People who put the flower into group A are looking for a balance between the different elements, while people who chose group B are looking for an absolute element, regardless of how the other fits.

That being said, there may be something else at play, which the searcher didn't account for. I'm into gardening and sorting flowers by the stem only is plain heresy! xD

[davef]

Exactly. Thanks for understanding even though I wrote groupe B instead of group A in the first paragraphe. -_-

People who put the flower into group A are looking for a balance between the different elements, while people who chose group B are looking for an absolute element, regardless of how the other fits.

That being said, there may be something else at play, which the searcher didn't account for. I'm into gardening and sorting flowers by the stem only is plain heresy! xD

Sure you're very welcome! It makes sense that your gardening background led you to that answer

[Bergin]

A

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[Bergin]

A

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Oh yeah the motivation: i dont think I ever drew as a achild ore even saw a drawing of flowers with thorny petals

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[davef]

I like threads like these tomenable. You should post more of these