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Thread: Indo-European migrations scenario for Civilization 4 (Bts)

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    6 out of 7 members found this post helpful.

    Post Indo-European migrations scenario for Civilization 4 (Bts)



    NB: The first post has been updated to take into account new versions of the mod and scenario.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have created two scenarios for the PC game Civilization IV (Beyond the Sword version) in which I attempt to recreate the context of the Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age in Eurasia and North Africa. For both scenarios I looked up the name of major archaeological sites from around 4000 BCE to name each of the city/settlement in the game. When I couldn't find any, like in northern Russia, I used geographical names (e.g. Ladoga, Onega and Pinega lakes for Uralic settlements).


    Scenario Old World map with 16 civs

    This scenario uses a hug map of Eurasia and North Africa. The game starts in 3700 BCE. The default for Civilization (whatever the version from I to VI) is 4000 BCE. The problem with this is that all teams found their first city in 4000 BCE and it takes many centuries before we can found a second city. By the time we reach 2000 BCE, most of the map is still empty. Furthermore, players have to discover some Palaeolithic "technologies" like fishing, hunting, archery, sailing and mysticism and Early Neolithic ones like agriculture, animal husbandry and pottery. In reality, by 4000 BCE agriculture had already spread all over Europe, North Africa, West Asia, the Indus Valley and parts of China. To remedy this, the game starts with Europe, the Middle East and the Indus Valley already filled with Neolithic settlements, which I divided in cultural groups (represented by the 'civilisations' in the game). I even indicated the main Y-DNA haplogroups linked with each proto-civilisation. These are:

    - Nordic farmers (Funnelbeaker culture) => G2a and I1
    - Atlantic farmers (northern Megalithic cultures) => I2a
    - Iberian farmers (southern Megalithic cultures) =>G2a and I2a
    - Anatolian farmers (with derived groups like Starcevo, Cucuteni-Trypillian, LBK, as well as the Greek and Italian Neolithic) =>G2a
    - Caucasian farmers in the northern Fertile Crescent and Caucasus => J1, J2 and T1a
    - Sumerians => ?
    - Egyptians and South Levantines => E1b1b
    - Iranian farmers (which I have called 'Gedrosian farmers' as the term Iranian sounds too Indo-European) => J2 and L1
    - Harappans => L1

    In Russia we find:

    - Uralic tribes => N1c

    - The satem branch of IE speakers in the forest-steppe zone. => R1a
    I called them 'Aryans' as it is what they called themselves, at least in Asia. I chose the name Darius for their leader as it is both an Iranian and a Slavic name. I chose Alexander as leader's head as I find that he looks East Slavic with some Indo-Aryan traits.

    - The centum branch of IE speakers in the Yamna and Maykop cultures. => R1b
    I chose Brennus as leader as he looks both Celtic and Germanic with his reddish blond hair. I called the R1b tribe the 'Albans' (meaning 'White' in PIE) as it is what many ancient centum people called themselves. It is a term that we find in :
    - Albania : Albanian is a centum branch
    - Alba Longa, the first capital of the Latins before they founded Rome, as well as the Alban Hills and Lake Albano near Rome.
    - Alba, the Scottish Gaelic name for Scotland.

    For the sake of thoroughness I also added the following civs, although they aren't protagonists to the main plot.

    - Mongolian tribes (C2a and Q1a)
    - Chinese farmers (O2)
    - Ethiopian tribes (E1b1b)
    - Niger-Congo tribes (E1b1a)

    When the game starts, the R1b tribes are already at war with the Anatolian farmers, so they are ready to attack the Balkans, while the R1a tribes are at war with the Nordic farmers (Corded Ware expansion) and Gedrosian farmers (Indo-Iranian expansion). I tried to give the farmers enough defence so that each region is conquered more or less within the historical time frame.

    Scenario World Map with 18 civs

    This scenario uses the same civs on the standard world map that comes with the game. There are about 3 times less cities than in the previous scenario as Eurasia is smaller, so the game is faster. I added the Mesoamerican (Aztec), Andean (Inca), and Austronesian (Khmer) farmers. This way all the major civs are present with a realistic level of development/technologies and number of cities to start the game in 4000 BCE. I removed the Sumerians as there was only space for one of their cities on the map.

    This is the way all games of Civilization ought to start if the start is 4000 BCE. It should be played in normal speed mode to get the techs around the same time as they were discovered for real.

    I have checked the location of copper, silver and gold deposits in ancient times in Europe and the Middle East and adapted the map accordingly.

    Mod

    To play in the best conditions, please also use this mod with the scenario. Here is what the mod does:

    1) A completely redesigned tech tree that is more logical and historical. There are no new techs. Just the tree schema and pre-requisites per tech have changed. Here are examples of changes:

    - The wheel now requires horse riding first as it enables chariots.
    - The calendar appears much earlier, directly from agriculture and sailing (early navigation with the sun and stars).
    - Bronze working leads to metal casting, which leads to iron working.
    - Priesthood leads to writing and monarchy because the first cities (in Sumer) started with a temple and a high priest, who later became a priest-monarch, and writing developed around these primitive temple-based cities.
    - Writing is obviously required to develop the code of laws, mathematics and the alphabet.
    - Currency evolves from monarchy (+ mathematics) as kings develop new ways of collecting taxes (and use their heads on coins).
    - Civil service develops from currency, as monarchs need an administration to manage their empires and tax collecting.
    - Mathematics + masonry lead to construction.
    - Copper working (to build spearmen, chop down trees and enable slavery) is now a prerequisite to bronze working (to build axemen). This way Anatolian, Caucasian and Gedrosian farmers already have copper working to protect themselves more efficiently against steppe horse riders, but steppe people can build axemen against spearmen.
    - The technology of the wheel is split in two: the wheel for road building (available from the start) and the chariot to build chariot (requires horse riding and bronze working)

    Here is an overview (click twice for full size).

    2) No more maintenance cost for the number of cities, as it was too penalising for large civs and downright unplayable with the Indo-Europeans when they started taking cities in the Balkans.

    3) New unit strength/range. Horses and chariots now have a range of 3 instead of 2. Chariots being a later tech, they have a strength of 7 instead of 4. I adjusted the strength of all later units accordingly.

    4) Cow and horse pastures produce one extra gold per turn (in compensation for the lack of farms and luxury resources in the Steppe).

    5) I changed the personality of some leaders (R1a and R1b become imperialistic, while Atlantic farmers become spiritual and financial).


    Screenshots







    Download

    You can download the Mod and scenario file attached. Unzip, then copy and paste the mod directory in your Civ4 Beyond the Sword Mod directory. Click on the scenario file to start the game.

    Mod pack : Indo-European_Migrations-v1.5.zip

    Scenarios

    1) Indo-European migrations (map of the Old World) : Bronze Age and IE Migrations-v1.5.zip
    2) World Map from 4000 BCE : World-4000BCE.zip
    Last edited by Maciamo; 25-04-18 at 13:04.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Cut
    Shame it isn’t for civ 5

    Also Sumerians should actually be R1b (amongst other haplotypes) in all likelihood imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe View Post
    Shame it isn’t for civ 5

    Also Sumerians should actually be R1b (amongst other haplotypes) in all likelihood imo
    I actually prefer Civ 4 than Civ 5. More fun to play. Easier to customise.

    There are too many possibilities for the possible haplogroups of the Sumerians. I think that J1, J2a, L1, T1a, G2a and E1b1b are all possible alongside R1b. I doubt that will belong only to one haplogroup.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Here is already a second version. I have created a Mod (download this Indo-European_Migrations.zip) to do the following things:

    - slow down the speed of discovery of technologies (x10 slower) and even more so for bronze working, iron working, horse riding, so that non-IE civs don't get them too quickly, otherwise the IE invaders would lose their advantage.
    - speed up a bit the training speed for units (including settlers)
    - renamed the religions (Sumerian, Judeo-Egyptian, Megalithic, Fertility Cult, Harappan, Indo-European). I wanted to change the icons for each religion but couldn't find where they were located in other mods.

    Just download, unzip, copy and paste this folder in your /Mod/ directory where the game is installed.

    I have also changed the game's music, but I haven't included the files here as they were too heavy. I used the music files from PIE Ancient Europe and Realism Invictus, which I think are better, but you can change the sound files to whatever you like.

    I have modified a bit the scenario's file too (Bronze Age and IE Migrations-v1.2.zip). I added more cities in the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, added religions to all cities, and fixed a small bug.

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    http://www.freeciv.org/

    Free Civ is seeing some active development at the moment, they might be open to suggestions. It's interesting how these flaws rise to the surface when you try to model actual history using the game.

    Btw, doesn't the Semitic language trace back to E1b1b?

    Adding Native Americans to the mix would be interesting as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I actually prefer Civ 4 than Civ 5. More fun to play. Easier to customise.

    There are too many possibilities for the possible haplogroups of the Sumerians. I think that J1, J2a, L1, T1a, G2a and E1b1b are all possible alongside R1b. I doubt that will belong only to one haplogroup.
    Well the culture bearers would have been R1b tribes before moving on to the Steppe, who cares about the rest?

    But agreed, there would have been many haplogroups (not like in, say, Ireland, obviously).

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    This distribution map about haplogroup T always makes me think that Sumerians could've had a higher than average proportion of T1a males. The higher proportion of T in the Middle East seem to spread right from Mesopotamia and its immediately surrounding areas.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...T_Y-DNA_II.svg

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    Seems like an interesting series, I have a friend who has it and at his party he had a bunch of people play the fifth one, and it lasted for hours. Most of my games involve killing dragons, opening chests, blasting aliens, it gets old and I would like something new. I know I'm gettin old when the only modern gaming console I own is a PlayStation 4 and it's the cheap, bulky 2013 kind. I haven't even touched it in a while lol. I wonder if there's going to be a PS4 version of civilization.

    Oh btw i wonder if this is a game Angela would get into :)
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Here is the third version of the scenario. Please download and replace the new Mod folder (Indo-European_Migrations-v1.3.zip) and the new scenario file (Bronze Age and IE Migrations-v1.3.zip).

    The new scenario has even cities in the Steppe, Caucasus and Balkans.

    As the term 'Semitic tribes' was debatable, I renamed them 'Caucasian farmers'.

    The new Mod includes:

    1) A completely redesigned tech tree that is more logical and historical. There are no new techs. Just the tree schema and pre-requisites per tech have changed. Here are examples of changes:

    - The wheel now requires horse riding first as it enables chariots.
    - The calendar appears much earlier, directly from agriculture and sailing (early navigation with the sun and stars).
    - Bronze working leads to metal casting, which leads to iron working.
    - Priesthood leads to writing and monarchy because the first cities (in Sumer) started with a temple and a high priest, who later became a priest-monarch, and writing developed around these primitive temple-based cities.
    - Writing is obviously required to develop the code of laws, mathematics and the alphabet.
    - Currency evolves from monarchy (+ mathematics) as kings develop new ways of collecting taxes (and use their heads on coins).
    - Civil service develops from currency, as monarchs need an administration to manage their empires and tax collecting.
    - Mathematics + masonry lead to construction.


    Here is an overview (click twice for full size). tech-tree.jpg

    2) No more maintenance cost for the number of cities, as it was too penalising for large civs and downright unplayable with the Indo-Europeans when they started taking cities in the Balkans.

    3) Horses and chariots now have a range of 3 instead of 2. Chariots being a later tech, they have a strength of 8 instead of 4.

    4) Cow and horse pastures produce one extra gold per turn (in compensation for the lack of farms and luxury resources in the Steppe).

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Here is version 1.4 of the Mod (Indo-European_Migrations-v1.4.zip). I have fixed the following issues:

    1) I had previously increased the strength of chariots from 4 to 8, but forgot to adjust the strength of later units accordingly. It's now done.

    2) I added copper working (to build spearmen, chop down trees and enable slavery) as a prerequisite to bronze working (to build axemen). This way Anatolian, Caucasian and Gedrosian farmers already have copper working to protect themselves more efficiently against steppe horse riders, but steppe people can build axemen against spearmen.

    3) I split the technology of the wheel in two: the wheel for road building (available from the start) and the chariot to build chariot (requires horse riding and bronze working)

    4) I changed the personality of some leaders (R1a and R1b become imperialistic, while Atlantic farmers become spiritual and financial).

    I have created a new scenario (World-4000BCE.zip) using the standard world map (instead of the zoomed in map of the Old World). There are about 3 times less cities as Eurasia is smaller, so the game is faster. I added the Mesoamerican (Aztec), Andean (Inca), Niger-Congo (Malinese) Ethiopian and Austronesian (Khmer) farmers. This way all the major civs are present with a realistic level of development/technologies and number of cities to start the game in 4000 BCE. This is the way all games of Civilization ought to start if the start is 4000 BCE. It should be played in normal speed mode to get the techs around the same time as they were discovered for real.

    I looked up the name of major archaeological sites from around 4000 BCE to name each of the city/settlement in the game. When I couldn't find any, like in northern Russia, I used geographical names (e.g. Ladoga, Onega and Pinega lakes for Uralic settlements).

    I tested the game with the R1b pastoralists and managed take most of the Balkans by 3100 BCE and Germany and France by 2200 BCE. I got chariots exactly in 2000 BCE, which allowed me to conquer the Middle East, Italy and Spain during the Late Bronze Age. I haven't gone further yet. Your feedback is welcome as I am sure some stuff can still be improved.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 18-04-18 at 10:18.

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    Could you make it so that horse units cannot traverse mountain tiles, and don't get a movement bonus for hills? Though a player might be able to build a city on a mountain if they want to take the penalty to get a high defense bonus. It would be interesting to create some farmer cities on mountain tops to see if that impacts the game.

    If small ice ages could be added this would greatly increase realism as well. The Sahara was grassland 4000 BCE and is a larger land area than Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    Could you make it so that horse units cannot traverse mountain tiles, and don't get a movement bonus for hills?
    Horses cannot cross mountains here. No unit can cross mountain by default and I haven't changed it. I don't think they have a bonus movement for hills unless there is a road.

    Though a player might be able to build a city on a mountain if they want to take the penalty to get a high defense bonus. It would be interesting to create some farmer cities on mountain tops to see if that impacts the game.
    Yes, that could be interesting.

    If small ice ages could be added this would greatly increase realism as well. The Sahara was grassland 4000 BCE and is a larger land area than Europe.
    I also wish Civ games would include climate change over time. It's possible to implement with scheduled events, but it is very tedious to do as we have to define changes for each square on the map one by one...

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    Here's an idea I was thinking of. Instead of religions, what if they were modded to be different "material cultures" and "burial practices". But I guess it would require changing the graphics, the technologies required to "found" them, and the modifier effects as well.

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    Sheesh, the more I read this the more I want to play civilization. I can't expect it to be a strategy game in the same vein as Starcraft or even good old fashioned chess which I love as well; it seems a lot slower paced and more variables need to be considered (at least from my perspective). Not that that's a bad thing, I appreciate games with depth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Here's an idea I was thinking of. Instead of religions, what if they were modded to be different "material cultures" and "burial practices". But I guess it would require changing the graphics, the technologies required to "found" them, and the modifier effects as well.
    That sounds very good, but I don't have the time to create such a mod. If someone can make it, that would be great though.

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    The historical problem with this is of course that IEs had never one centralized government. But acted as independent clans most of the time. With some cooperation of course now and then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    The historical problem with this is of course that IEs had never one centralized government. But acted as independent clans most of the time. With some cooperation of course now and then.
    True, but that's the same for all archaeological cultures and early city-states in the 4th millennium BCE. I don't think that the game Civilization should be seen as us being the absolute, omnipotent ruler of a nation-state anyway. The human player just manages things behind the scenes, including the choice of type of government, which includes representation and democracy. So it has always been clear to me that we are not the ruler. No ruler could micromanage all everyday decisions in his state like where to build a lighthouse or a farm, whether a forest should be chopped down, or that can of mundane thing, in addition to being a military leader, economist, diplomat and religious leader. In a modern democracy that would be the responsibility of thousands of people. The purpose of the game is not to feel in control of everything but more to embark on a voyage through time and see how things run their course if at one point people (not us) develop this or that technology or adopt such or such system. I see it more as a simulation of history. That's why I only play real maps and historical scenarios and prefer mods that add realism and complexity like Invictus.

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    Here are a few minor adjustments in the mod (unit strength and tech values) and scenario (using Vikings instead of Persians for the R1a pastoralists and Alexander instead of Darius as their leader's head).

    Bronze Age and IE Migrations-v1.5.zip

    Indo-European_Migrations-v1.5.zip
    Last edited by Maciamo; 25-04-18 at 13:02.

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