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Thread: Upcoming paper on Eurasian steppe population genetics.

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    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    5 members found this post helpful.

    Upcoming paper on Eurasian steppe population genetics.

    The samples are already available.

    See:
    https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB20658

    "DescriptionThe Eurasian steppe, stretching about 8000 kilometres from Hungary and Romania in the west to Mongolia and western China in the east, is culturally among the most dynamic areas in the world. In the past four millennia, it has been variously dominated by Iranian-, Turkic- and Mongolic-speaking groups, and its temperate grasslands have been a crossroad for extensive movements of peoples, goods, and ideas between Europe, Siberia, South and East Asia. In order to understand the genetic history of the Eurasian steppe populations, we have sequenced 137 ancient genomes (~1X average coverage) spanning a 4000 years time series. We also genotyped 502 individuals from 16 contemporary self-reported ethnicities. We find evidence of a highly dynamic population history; the Iranian-speaking Scythians that dominated the Eurasian steppe throughout the Iron Age (~1 millennium BCE to common era) emerged following admixture between Late Bronze Age herders of western Eurasian descent and East Asian hunter-gatherers. The steppe nomads later further admixed with Turkic-speaking groups of East Asian ancestry that spread westward across the steppe in multiple waves: firstly, the Xiongnu confederations that emerged in Mongolia around the 3nd/2nd century BC; secondly, the Huns (4-5th century CE), infected with plague basal to the Justinian Y. pestis strain that destabilized the eastern Roman Empire in the 6th century CE; and thirdly during various short term dynasties, including the Mongol Empire of Genghis Khan and his descendants. These recent historical events transformed the Eurasian steppe populations from being Indo-European speakers of largely western Eurasian ancestry to the present-day Turkic-speaking groups, primarily of East Asian ancestry."

    Many of the movements from the steppe seem to have been aided by plague.

    The same thing happened with the Black Death. The Genovese were infected in the Crimea and it then spread all over Europe.

    This is an excellent article on the subject, indeed on the plague in general, although the Mongols catapulting corpses over the walls may be apocryphal.

    http://www.haplogruplar.com/the-gene...uz-migrations/

    "The plague bacteria is thought to have spread from the arid plains of central Asia. The plague generally left untouched the indigenous nomad population, because rat fleas do not like the smell of horses, with which the nomads lived in close proximity. However, from the mid-thirteenth century, increased commercialisation in Europe opened up silk routes through the steppelands, and the trading posts set up to service this trade formed convenient stepping-stones for infected fleas to break out of the area.
    The first known victims of plague were probably a community of Nestorian Christians at Issyk Kul, south of Lake Balkash, whose cemetery explicitly records three plague victims in 1338-9, a year in which there were unusually heavy mortalities. In 1343, it had reached the Black Sea port of Kaffa (Theodosia) in the Crimea. There, a Genoese colony was under siege from a khan of the Golden Horde named Yannibeg, when his army was decimated by an outbreak of plague. Determined to make his enemies suffer the torments of his men, he ordered that bodies of plague victims be catapulted into the city.

    The Genoese hurriedly dumped these into the sea, but the plague spread anyway. Taking to their ships, the fleeing Genoese carried the plague far and wide."


    That's an interesting point about the smell of horses repelling the flees. Perhaps that's why the steppe people were able to survive in greater numbers?


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    With the arrival of the plague, deaths of the aristocracy caused a schism . Often, entire families died out, leaving land holdings in question, which is how certain families acquired wealth in later part of the 14th century. There were three distinct nobility decimation involved in the plague. First, the direct loss of family, second the die off of peasantry and third, the need to get more done with less available personnel. The landholding families grew grains as a much-needed source of income and with the urban populations reduced by as much as 75%, there was a smaller group to sell to and a smaller group to provide labor. another reason was the people who cared for the horses were less likely to get the plague, due to the fact that the rat flea was not attracted to the horse, this meant that those who had horse skills and knowledge were more likely to survive than urban or farm peasants. While landlords adjusted their income and changed their business models, groups of peasantry who had horse skills were a higher percentage. This lead to changes between manor and labor relationships and dissolving bonds that peasants had to the landlords. Aristocrats became also more entrepreneurial, built breweries, ponds, forges and used the skilled horse peasant to become a transportation method for a new arising middle class of tradesmen and merchants who sold and brokered the nobility's outputs.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140...sses-in-europe

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    Very interesting paper, i wanted to explore the plague idea from steppe bronze age since a few times know, i wonder what kind of rodent was at the origin of the infection. Rattus norvegicus is a typical cold-climate rodent coming from north asia, eurasian steppe was the perfect road for his expansion in eastern europe and china and therefore yersinia pestis. Do somebody know if rattus norvegicus was in europe at the time of the bronze age ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Very interesting paper, i wanted to explore the plague idea from steppe bronze age since a few times know, i wonder what kind of rodent was at the origin of the infection. Rattus norvegicus is a typical cold-climate rodent coming from north asia, eurasian steppe was the perfect road for his expansion in eastern europe and china and therefore yersinia pestis. Do somebody know if rattus norvegicus was in europe at the time of the bronze age ?
    This study linked below is in relation to the black death in the middle ages, nevertheless, perhaps there were similar dynamics in the bronze age: It states that the plague was probably primarily spread by human ectoparasites.

    Plague, caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, can spread through human populations by multiple transmission pathways. Today, most human plague cases are bubonic, caused by spillover of infected fleas from rodent epizootics, or pneumonic, caused by inhalation of infectious droplets. However, little is known about the historical spread of plague in Europe during the Second Pandemic (14–19th centuries), including the Black Death, which led to high mortality and recurrent epidemics for hundreds of years. Several studies have suggested that human ectoparasite vectors, such as human fleas (Pulex irritans) or body lice (Pediculus humanus humanus), caused the rapidly spreading epidemics. Here, we describe a compartmental model for plague transmission by a human ectoparasite vector. Using Bayesian inference, we found that this model fits mortality curves from nine outbreaks in Europe better than models for pneumonic or rodent transmission. Our results support that human ectoparasites were primary vectors for plague during the Second Pandemic, including the Black Death (1346–1353), ultimately challenging the assumption that plague in Europe was predominantly spread by rats.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/115/6/1304

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    This study linked below is in relation to the black death in the middle ages, nevertheless, perhaps there were similar dynamics in the bronze age: It states that the plague was probably primarily spread by human ectoparasites.
    Sometimes i'm so excited that i actually sees things that doesn't exist... I fought it was about the potential propagation of the plague with late bronze age steppe pastoralists... Fair enough it's gonna be for another time. I actually didn't know that flea and or lice where vector of the plague too. There was a paper recently that stated that western propagation of indo-europeans from the pontic steppe in the late bronze age could be made easily because they brought with them a form of plague wich would annihilate most the native peoples.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Open Genomes has published this list of y calls, but there are no dates or cultures provided. If anyone can provide them, much thanks in advance.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Rik/edit#gid=0

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    I opened the T haplo. one and got this below......do not know what it means ...............all 3 T branches are listed...T1a1, T1a2 and T1a3.
    .
    .
    .
    http://www.open-genomes.org/genomes/...5-Y-SNPs-T.tsv
    .
    #State hg19 Position Genotype Ancestral allele Derived allele Ancestral reads Derived reads Derived reads/Total reads SNP names ISOGG Haplogroup YFull haplogroup
    #CC International 4.0 BY-NC Open Genomes
    - 24506629 G G A 1 0 0 FGC37395 . B-Y33560,T-FGC37316
    - 21800763 G G A 1 0 0 rs777470533;K370 ? C-K98,T-FGC37316
    - 16969701 G G A 1 0 0 rs552368763;M3786 . D-P99,T-Y19767
    - 21302682 G G A 1 0 0 rs79214009;E472;AM01817;M1690 . O-P164,T-L1255
    - 15326406 C C T 1 0 0 rs767101224;CTS4000 Q1a2? Q-CTS4000,T-Z710
    - 21564097 T T A 1 0 0 rs775541250;Y1399 R1a1a1b1a2b3? R-Y1399,T-Y21004
    + 15335205 G A G 0 1 1 rs756239985;CTS4014 T T
    + 22471893 G A G 0 1 1 rs937021487;PF5575 ? T
    + 5613991 T C T 0 1 1 FGC1203;Y9245 T T
    + 5987912 T C T 0 1 1 FGC1207;Y9249 T T
    + 14314345 T C T 0 1 1 rs767183366;CTS2460;PF5616 ? T
    + 16213628 T C T 0 1 1 rs750077348;PF5626;CTS5336 T T
    + 17688663 T C T 0 1 1 rs778048626;CTS7828 ? T
    + 7428770 A G A 0 1 1 rs753867264;CTS1474;PF5601 ? T
    + 8459278 A G A 0 1 1 rs746427564;PF5607 T T
    + 13578398 A G A 0 1 1 PF5613 T T
    + 15046891 T G T 0 1 1 rs752003914;CTS3585;PF5618 T T
    + 17598769 A G A 0 2 1 rs778318117;CTS7664 ? T
    + 18873998 A G A 0 1 1 rs776437411;CTS9400 ? T
    + 28516529 A G A 0 1 1 rs775134420;CTS12192 ? T
    + 5403274 C T C 0 2 1 PF7460 T T
    + 18139520 C T C 0 1 1 rs761211634;PF5647;CTS8669 ? T
    + 18875703 G T G 0 1 1 rs780615197;CTS9408 ? T
    + 14738001 A G A 0 1 1 rs775274558;CTS3219;ZS80 . T,J-Y6304
    - 2696928 A A G 1 0 0 rs746967056;CTS54 T1a2b1~ T-CTS54
    - 17660321 G G C 1 0 0 rs774313522;SK1478 T1a2b1~ T-CTS54
    - 21564089 T T C 1 0 0 rs772341217;Y17718 . T-CTS54
    - 16793730 G G A 1 0 0 rs778240450;CTS6280 T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2 T-CTS6280
    - 19118773 G G A 1 0 0 rs764878716;CTS9882 T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a1 T-CTS9882
    - 17914028 A A G 1 0 0 FGC4692 T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a1b2a1? T-FGC4692
    - 22061496 A A T 1 0 0 Y7457;FGC23051 . T-FGC23008
    - 7092107 C C T 1 0 0 Y7431;FGC23009 . T-FGC23008
    - 8348145 C C T 2 0 0 Y7383;FGC23016 . T-FGC23008
    - 8237104 G G A 1 0 0 Y13536;FGC29131 . T-FGC23008
    - 21997888 G G A 1 0 0 FGC29148 . T-FGC23008
    - 28507593 G G A 1 0 0 FGC29155 . T-FGC23008
    - 21442324 A A G 1 0 0 FGC53129 . T-FGC37316
    - 8196614 G G A 1 0 0 FGC37329 . T-FGC37381
    - 22199656 C C T 1 0 0 rs865883333;FGC41053 . T-FGC41116
    - 22758473 T T C 1 0 0 rs868567554;Y19187;FGC41164 . T-FGC41116
    - 22760373 T T G 1 0 0 rs866075823;FGC41165;Y19188 T T-FGC41116
    - 8223419 G G A 1 0 0 FGC46969 . T-FGC46969
    - 22918940 C C G 1 0 0 FGC63826 . T-FGC63786
    - 7767278 T T C 1 0 0 FGC63793 . T-FGC63786
    - 19344257 T T A 1 0 0 FGC63817 . T-FGC63786
    - 22104445 T T A 2 0 0 FGC63823 . T-FGC63786
    - 14169559 C C T 1 0 0 rs746092820;S15560 T1a2~ T-L131
    - 19335649 C C A 1 0 0 rs781451883;SK1475;S22136 T1a2~ T-L131
    - 24516786 G G C 1 0 0 rs937279106;Y6030;FGC22987 . T-L131
    - 9816457 T T C 1 0 0 rs770573253;Z19911;Y6036;FGC22995 . T-L131
    - 6534471 A A T 1 0 0 FGC3951 . T-L162
    - 7063535 A A C 1 0 0 rs750367523;CTS880 ? T-L162
    - 14149341 A A G 1 0 0 rs779167859;CTS1998 ? T-L162
    - 15108352 A A G 1 0 0 rs753045096;PF5619;CTS3686 ? T-L162
    - 3401818 C C T 1 0 0 FGC3957 . T-L162
    - 23612472 G G C 1 0 0 rs755506380;L299;PF5675 T1a1 T-L162
    + 16595426 G A G 0 1 1 rs769317579;CTS5987 T1a T-L206
    + 7180773 G C G 0 1 1 rs779076159;CTS1066 ? T-L206
    + 17003190 A C A 0 2 1 rs780947695;CTS6604 ? T-L206
    + 17792858 A G A 0 1 1 rs756850544;CTS8004;PF5641 T1a T-L206
    + 9809016 C T C 0 1 1 rs762359196;S12490;FGC1225 . T-L206
    - 16988926 C C T 1 0 0 rs762445827;CTS6576;PF5633 ? T-L208
    - 21753104 C C G 1 0 0 L1254 T? T-L1254
    - 15720875 A A G 1 0 0 Y8649;FGC1401 R1b1a1a2a1a2c1a1a1a1a T-L1255
    - 17254649 A A G 1 0 0 FGC1413;Y9223 T1a3 T-L1255
    - 23084134 A A G 1 0 0 FGC1463;Y8685 T1a3 T-L1255
    - 4001975 C C T 1 0 0 rs2557556;FGC1309;Y9179 T1a3 T-L1255
    - 5977238 C C T 1 0 0 Y8617;FGC1329 . T-L1255
    - 8301918 C C A 1 0 0 FGC1355;Y9209 T1a3 T-L1255
    - 18874905 C C G 1 0 0 Y8665;FGC1428 . T-L1255
    - 22889577 C C G 1 0 0 FGC1462;Y8691 T1a3 T-L1255
    - 7887331 G G T 1 0 0 FGC1351;Y8624 T1a3 T-L1255
    - 8133908 G G A 2 0 0 Y9110;FGC1353 . T-L1255
    - 15885289 G G T 1 0 0 Y9186;FGC1402 . T-L1255
    - 18925917 G G C 1 0 0 Y8697;FGC1429 . T-L1255
    - 22193137 G G T 1 0 0 Y9230 T1a3 T-L1255
    - 16556149 T T C 1 0 0 FGC1407;Y8648 T1a3 T-L1255
    + 16224726 A G A 0 1 1 rs765259367;CTS5364 T1a T-M70
    + 16212441 A G A 0 1 1 rs769562543;CTS5332;PF7472 T? T-M70,I-CTS5332,J-CTS5332
    - 21844311 C C T 1 0 0 rs749120054;P328 T1a2a T-P322
    - 23355022 C C T 1 0 0 rs772501958;PH5409;Y13277 T T-P322
    - 15696816 T T C 1 0 0 Y13256 T T-P322
    - 16389550 T T C 1 0 0 rs1028368979;FGC30201 T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a? T-PF4074
    - 15895113 C C G 1 0 0 Y37798 . T-PF7444
    - 6705840 C C T 1 0 0 Z20021 T? T-PF7469
    - 22513448 C C G 1 0 0 Z20041 T? T-PF7469
    - 28789629 C C G 1 0 0 Z20017 T? T-PF7469
    - 2847299 G G A 1 0 0 Z20026 T? T-PF7469
    - 17424926 T T C 1 0 0 PF7475;Z20020 T? T-PF7469
    - 2901354 C C T 1 0 0 rs940447465;Y21205 . T-S27463
    - 6918934 A A T 1 0 0 rs974213263;Y3781 T1a1a1a2~ T-Y3781
    - 8564238 A A T 2 0 0 rs911154271;Y3831 T1a1a1b2a2a1 T-Y3782
    - 8614944 C C T 1 0 0 rs950178777;Y3832 T T-Y3782
    - 7684161 G G A 1 0 0 rs961036962;Y3823 T T-Y3782
    - 14343175 T T C 1 0 0 Y3837 T T-Y3836
    - 17524329 G G A 2 0 0 rs867314287;Y5681;FGC4051 . T-Y5676
    - 23994378 A A G 1 0 0 FGC4066;Y5686 T T-Y5686
    - 14860306 A A G 1 0 0 rs752379496;S16483 T1a2b~ T-Y6033
    - 28481057 A A G 1 0 0 rs761392954;CTS12108 T1a2b T-Y6033
    - 17105081 C C T 1 0 0 rs769696882;CTS6788 T1a2b~ T-Y6033
    - 20822472 G G C 1 0 0 rs1042215347;Z19929;FGC22993;Y6041 T T-Y6033
    - 8778664 A A T 1 0 0 Y6429 T T-Y6409
    - 19036344 A A G 2 0 0 Y6439 T T-Y6409
    - 23597244 A A G 1 0 0 rs1022762208;Y6447 T T-Y6409
    - 14143289 G G T 1 0 0 Y6432 T T-Y6409
    - 14881663 G G A 1 0 0 rs1042298860;Y6416 T T-Y6409
    - 7150898 A A G 1 0 0 Y7381;FGC23010 . T-Y7381
    - 18997557 A A G 1 0 0 FGC23040;Y7450 T1a2b* T-Y7381
    - 21074717 G G T 1 0 0 Y7452;FGC23043 . T-Y7381
    - 23334138 G G A 1 0 0 Y7462;FGC23059 . T-Y7381
    + 5187464 G A G 0 1 1 Y8613;FGC1320 . T-Y8614
    + 13854747 A C A 0 1 1 FGC1381;Y9215 T1a3 T-Y8614
    + 7326752 T G T 0 1 1 rs867572589;FGC1340;Y8614 T1a3 T-Y8614
    + 8271373 C G C 0 1 1 rs866106797;FGC1354;Y9208 T1a3 T-Y8614
    + 8587666 A G A 0 1 1 rs866316889;Y8626;FGC1360 . T-Y8614
    + 21676586 C G C 0 1 1 rs866341692;Y9228;FGC1444 . T-Y8614
    - 8048236 A A T 1 0 0 Y9102 T-Y3781* T-Y9102
    - 15165103 A A G 1 0 0 Y10910 T-Y9102 T-Y9102
    - 8155829 G G A 1 0 0 Y10907 T-Y9102 T-Y9102
    - 8156668 T T C 1 0 0 Y10908 T-Y9102 T-Y9102
    - 8546068 C C G 1 0 0 rs948465308;FGC40284 . T-Y10641
    - 18868532 G G A 1 0 0 rs985863648;Y19904 . T-Y10641
    - 9985807 C C T 1 0 0 FGC40382 . T-Y10898
    - 10031404 C C A 2 0 0 FGC40383 . T-Y10898
    - 18789446 C C T 1 0 0 rs765723234;Y10930 T-Y9102 T-Y10898
    - 17512735 G G T 1 0 0 Y10917 T-Y9102 T-Y10898
    - 8078550 A A G 1 0 0 FGC53095 . T-Y11675
    - 21974812 A A T 1 0 0 FGC37383 . T-Y11675
    - 6983515 G G A 2 0 0 Y33137 . T-Y11675
    - 6925790 T T C 2 0 0 FGC53090 . T-Y11675
    - 23568194 T T G 1 0 0 FGC53141 . T-Y11675
    - 7375864 G G A 1 0 0 FGC37324 . T-Y11675,J-Y86730
    + 28624258 C T C 0 1 1 rs868841763;Y12871 T T-Y12871
    - 6934839 C C T 1 0 0 rs754757502;Y23415 . T-Y13243
    - 18924341 C C T 1 0 0 rs1005776417;Y13273 T T-Y13243
    - 15716996 G G C 1 0 0 Y13257 T T-Y13243
    - 4179070 T T C 1 0 0 Y13734 T T-Y13243
    - 9399350 T T A 1 0 0 Y23414 . T-Y13243
    - 23417188 T T A 1 0 0 Y13768 T T-Y13243
    - 17487361 G G A 1 0 0 rs745841509;Y13781;PH3115 ? T-Y13244
    - 7595957 T T C 1 0 0 Y13736 T T-Y13244
    - 23736891 T T C 1 0 0 Y13770 T T-Y13244
    - 2835728 C C T 1 0 0 Y13281 T T-Y13279
    + 18995894 A G A 0 1 1 Y13310 T T-Y13279
    + 7798190 T G T 0 1 1 rs868442242;Y13288 T T-Y13280
    - 15438566 C C T 1 0 0 rs866759139;Y13708 T T-Y13718
    - 13830200 G G T 1 0 0 rs946820427;FGC41106 . T-Y13718
    - 14214465 T T C 1 0 0 rs867367763;Y13295 T1a3b2a1 T-Y13718
    - 13989704 A A G 1 0 0 Y19200;FGC40888 T1a1a1b1a1 T-Y14121
    - 15653050 A A G 1 0 0 Y19202;FGC40896 . T-Y14121
    - 8467399 G G C 1 0 0 FGC40882;Y19296 T T-Y14121
    - 9461790 C C G 1 0 0 Y14632 T T-Y14629
    - 22200749 C C G 1 0 0 Y14637 T T-Y14629
    - 15664783 T T G 2 0 0 Y14635 T1a3b? T-Y14629
    - 23080219 G G T 1 0 0 Y15284 T T-Y15122
    + 21704290 A G A 0 1 1 Y15280 T T-Y15122
    - 24363882 C C T 1 0 0 rs1046782293;Y15127 T1a1a1b2a T-Y15127
    - 7943571 T T C 1 0 0 FGC4689;Y15129 T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a1b2a1? T-Y15129
    - 17872831 A A G 1 0 0 Y15650 T T-Y15648
    - 19127131 A A G 1 0 0 Y15746 T T-Y15709
    - 19440659 A A G 1 0 0 Y15749 T T-Y15709
    - 22601119 A A G 1 0 0 Y15757 T T-Y15709
    - 19440657 T T G 1 0 0 Y128864;BY30164 . T-Y15709
    - 16778317 C C T 1 0 0 rs756177956;Y15767 T T-Y15711
    - 23265650 C C T 1 0 0 Y15771 T T-Y15711
    - 23626436 G G T 2 0 0 Y15765 T T-Y15711
    - 14769257 T T C 2 0 0 Y18225 T T-Y15711
    - 23250193 T T C 1 0 0 Y15764 T T-Y15711
    - 17073891 A A T 1 0 0 Y16056 . T-Y16021
    - 19415298 A A G 1 0 0 Y16050 . T-Y16021
    - 19109079 C C A 1 0 0 Y16060 . T-Y16021
    - 14280204 T T C 1 0 0 Y16022 . T-Y16021
    - 16928123 G G A 1 0 0 rs893425117;Y16240 T1a1a1b2a2a2b1a T-Y16240
    - 21157906 T T C 1 0 0 Y16280 . T-Y16240
    - 21812369 G G A 1 0 0 rs1041757897;Y16245 T1a1a1b1 T-Y16244
    - 7438017 T T C 1 0 0 Y17713 . T-Y17493
    - 8097251 A A G 1 0 0 Y18137 T T-Y18003
    - 15165136 A A C 1 0 0 Y18154 T T-Y18003
    - 23099615 A A T 1 0 0 Y18016 T T-Y18003
    - 23633295 A A T 1 0 0 Y18148 T T-Y18003
    + 22662931 T C T 0 1 1 Y18129 T T-Y18003
    - 15342379 G G A 1 0 0 Y18007 T T-Y18003
    - 18104562 T T A 1 0 0 Y18143 T T-Y18003
    - 22821231 C C T 1 0 0 Y18167 T T-Y18004
    - 8893744 G G A 1 0 0 FGC40883;Y18678 . T-Y18472
    - 13857514 C C A 1 0 0 rs796778767;Y19160;FGC40426 T1a1a1b2a2a2b2 T-Y19159
    - 18030994 T T C 1 0 0 rs1029993657;Y19181 T T-Y19167
    - 6979778 C C A 1 0 0 Y19387 T T-Y19381
    - 16379017 G G A 1 0 0 FGC40666;Y19383 T T-Y19381
    - 7593048 C C A 1 0 0 Y20014 . T-Y19767
    - 8456978 G G C 1 0 0 Y20018 . T-Y19767
    - 16179190 G G A 1 0 0 Y19988 . T-Y19767
    - 17384651 G G A 1 0 0 Y19990 . T-Y19767
    - 7902788 T T C 1 0 0 Y19768 . T-Y19767
    - 8456965 T T G 1 0 0 Y20017 . T-Y19767
    - 23355013 T T C 1 0 0 Y20008 . T-Y19767
    - 16536205 A A T 1 0 0 rs867891110;Y20721 . T-Y20698
    - 23853898 A A G 1 0 0 rs868216662;Y24870 . T-Y20698
    - 21482541 C C T 1 0 0 rs866566489;Y20734 . T-Y20698
    - 16799365 G G T 1 0 0 rs867889919;Y20723 . T-Y20698
    - 22941758 G G T 1 0 0 rs868795488;Y20739 . T-Y20698
    - 21175023 T T C 1 0 0 rs866788422;Y20733 . T-Y20698
    - 19504356 C C A 1 0 0 Y21010 . T-Y21004
    - 17251266 G G A 1 0 0 Y21331 . T-Y21004
    - 15580882 C C T 1 0 0 Z19959 T? T-Y21221
    - 22919088 C C T 1 0 0 Y21223 . T-Y21221
    - 21342627 C C T 1 0 0 Y22910;FGC48965 . T-Y22256
    - 19414477 G G A 1 0 0 rs969234335;FGC45122 T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a1a? T-Y22257,I-Y21293
    - 18221947 A A G 1 0 0 Y22690 . T-Y22258
    - 18628301 C C T 1 0 0 Y23280 T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a1b2? T-Y23280
    - 24371050 C C G 1 0 0 Y23323 . T-Y23280
    - 18116497 C C A 1 0 0 Y23353 . T-Y23281
    - 15779939 A A G 1 0 0 Y23287 . T-Y23285
    - 18841090 C C A 1 0 0 Y23298 . T-Y23285
    - 15427654 G G A 1 0 0 Y23932 . T-Y23856
    - 16502474 C C T 1 0 0 Y24871 . T-Y23857
    - 23261740 T T G 1 0 0 Y24140 . T-Y23857
    - 16442466 A A G 1 0 0 rs908641162;Y28687 . T-Y28685
    - 22905741 A A G 1 0 0 rs902923257;Y28913 . T-Y28685
    - 17657289 C C T 1 0 0 rs889260002;Y28910 . T-Y28685
    - 23755728 C C T 1 0 0 Y28919 . T-Y28685
    - 8887169 G G A 1 0 0 rs768354297;Y28920 . T-Y28685
    - 21664785 G G C 1 0 0 rs907226931;Y28923 . T-Y28685
    - 8462742 G G A 1 0 0 Y28896 . T-Y28694
    - 24372451 T T A 1 0 0 Y28695 . T-Y28694
    - 17184093 G G T 2 0 0 rs1017543211;Y30234 . T-Y29980
    - 17381118 G G T 1 0 0 rs1021454181;Y29986 . T-Y29980
    - 21329368 G G T 1 0 0 rs933866136;Y36728 . T-Y29980
    - 18538911 G G A 1 0 0 rs1019424625;FGC18113 . T-Y31473
    - 9137556 G G C 1 0 0 Y31474 . T-Y31474
    - 8302978 C C T 1 0 0 Y31533 . T-Y31477
    + 18025319 T C A 0 1 1 Y31540 . T-Y31477
    - 16758795 G G T 1 0 0 Y31558 . T-Y31477
    - 22903032 T T C 1 0 0 Y31495 . T-Y31477
    - 8544922 G G C 1 0 0 rs747821970;Y31481 . T-Y31478
    - 22968008 G G C 1 0 0 Y31496 . T-Y31478
    - 15039504 A A G 1 0 0 Y31500 . T-Y31506
    - 18103805 C C A 1 0 0 Y31524 . T-Y31506
    - 3545532 G G A 1 0 0 Y31499 . T-Y31506
    - 7435073 G G A 1 0 0 Y31528 . T-Y31506
    - 15454062 G G C 1 0 0 Y31502 . T-Y31506
    - 22772212 T T G 1 0 0 Y31509 . T-Y31506
    - 14604439 C C T 1 0 0 Y33034 . T-Y32893
    - 16946049 C C G 1 0 0 Y33040 . T-Y32893
    - 16986485 G G A 1 0 0 Y32901 . T-Y32893
    - 21411712 G G C 1 0 0 Y33042 . T-Y32893
    - 14800853 A A C 1 0 0 rs749777535;Y32899 . T-Y32895
    - 22618454 A A T 1 0 0 rs759178592;Y32905 . T-Y32895
    - 23140208 C C T 1 0 0 rs771399059;Y32906 . T-Y32895
    - 23834505 C C T 1 0 0 Y33347 . T-Y32915
    - 9891968 T T G 1 0 0 Y33345 . T-Y32915
    - 18116509 T T A 1 0 0 Y32917 . T-Y32915
    - 22147684 G G C 1 0 0 Y34309 . T-Y34309
    - 7816380 A A T 1 0 0 Y37394 . T-Y37311
    - 7934325 A A C 1 0 0 Y37321;BY28570 . T-Y37320
    - 19453742 A A C 1 0 0 BY28318;Y37332 . T-Y37320
    - 16256146 C C G 1 0 0 BY28276;Y37329 . T-Y37320
    - 17347756 C C G 1 0 0 BY28288;Y37707 . T-Y37320
    - 21284196 C C T 1 0 0 BY28352;Y37714 . T-Y37320
    + 14580733 A C T 0 1 1 Y37702;BY28261 . T-Y37320
    - 14071558 G G T 2 0 0 Y37322 . T-Y37320
    - 15714124 A A T 1 0 0 YP5670 . T-YP5441
    - 16679160 A A T 1 0 0 YP5444 . T-YP5441
    - 17299476 A A G 1 0 0 YP5442 . T-YP5441
    - 14505290 C C G 1 0 0 Y24659 . T-YP5441
    - 14902931 G G A 1 0 0 YP5447 . T-YP5441
    - 19390469 T T A 2 0 0 YP5443 . T-YP5441
    - 14718428 A A G 1 0 0 rs777009622;CTS3200 ? T-Z709
    - 16489317 G G C 1 0 0 rs746491168;CTS5806 ? T-Z709
    - 17553410 C C A 1 0 0 rs375635391;Z714;FGC3993 T1a1a1b2b2? T-Z710
    - 19118061 C C G 1 0 0 rs986358683;Z19963 T? T-Z19971
    - 17548128 C C G 1 0 0 Z20038 T1a1a1b2b? T-Z20015
    - 18027781 G G T 1 0 0 rs900121855;Z20015 T? T-Z20015


    the positives reads are 2 branches T1a3 and T1a2 and the ambiguous is T1a1 branch
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Open Genomes has published this list of y calls, but there are no dates or cultures provided. If anyone can provide them, much thanks in advance.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Rik/edit#gid=0
    Wow, looks like a real melting pot. So many Qs and C, O rather infrequent? Is it the Huns? Looks more like a Yenisseian group.

    Also super rare R1b-PH200. And 8*J, 4*G & 2*E. Iranic or Turkic?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Open Genomes has published this list of y calls, but there are no dates or cultures provided. If anyone can provide them, much thanks in advance.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Rik/edit#gid=0

    there are 2 E
    1 of them is E-V22

    https://yfull.com/tree/E-V22/
    and the other 1 is E-m123*
    https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y31991/

    valerius the bulgarian from this forum if you reading this you should be excited as this paper found your clade ancestor ..... :)
    as you belong to E-PF4428

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    Quote Originally Posted by markozd View Post
    Wow, looks like a real melting pot. So many Qs and C, O rather infrequent? Is it the Huns? Looks more like a Yenisseian group.

    Also super rare R1b-PH200. And 8*J, 4*G & 2*E. Iranic or Turkic?
    They cover a big span of time. That's why it's so important to know the precise culture and time period for each sample.

    This is Willerslev. Is he trying to steal some of Reich's thunder? If he's going to post the data, it should have had identifying information.

    Well, they said they were looking at Iranic, Turkic and Hunnic populations. I'd think the J and E would most likely come from the first or second.

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    Would we have to wait for the full paper to get dates for each sample?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    They cover a big span of time. That's why it's so important to know the precise culture and time period for each sample.

    This is Willerslev. Is he trying to steal some of Reich's thunder? If he's going to post the data, it should have had identifying information.

    Well, they said they were looking at Iranic, Turkic and Hunnic populations. I'd think the J and E would most likely come from the first or second.
    If i understood correctly, there are E samples among Scythians and Huns. J samples in Scythians, Huns and Turks.
    Xiongnu and Mongols mostly Q and C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernekar View Post
    If i understood correctly, there are E samples among Scythians and Huns. J samples in Scythians, Huns and Turks.
    Xiongnu and Mongols mostly Q and C.
    Well, I guess "J" made it out of the Caucasus again.

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    E among huns god if you are correct it is big .....
    among Scythian could be logic but huns..... that would be a surprise :)

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    God, history moves faster and faster, how to keep up
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Open Genomes has published this list of y calls, but there are no dates or cultures provided. If anyone can provide them, much thanks in advance.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Rik/edit#gid=0
    There is one I2c2 in the list, DA31. Cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernekar View Post
    If i understood correctly, there are E samples among Scythians and Huns. J samples in Scythians, Huns and Turks.
    Xiongnu and Mongols mostly Q and C.
    The Getic king Burebista had conquered the Scythians,bure=man in Albanian.


    "Pannoniae,Pamfiliae,Macedonianae...per Hunos erant fatigatae,BLACKIS,qui ipsorum fuerent pastores et coloni remanentibus sponte in Pannonia"


    Of course,De Keza only knew about the more recent situation,that is,the Magyars.


    http://adevaruldespredaci.ro/2015/02...ta-budapestei/

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Zosimos speaks about the Carpodakai,from probably Moldavia,as part of the Hunnic Confederation that has attacked the Empire,it is the last time when the Dacians are really recorded in history.

    The main hg for the Dacians would have been E V13,that's for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markozd View Post
    Wow, looks like a real melting pot. So many Qs and C, O rather infrequent? Is it the Huns? Looks more like a Yenisseian group.

    Also super rare R1b-PH200. And 8*J, 4*G & 2*E. Iranic or Turkic?
    I'd expect most Proto-Turkic (before their expansion, of which the first signs to the "civilized" world were the Xiongnu) to belong to Q and C clades, not to O. Actually, I'd perhaps even expect more R1 and J in Proto-Turks than O, at least in their earliest East Siberian homeland. But in my opinion the earliest Turks - probably including Xiongnu and Turks, or at least they were all people from roughly neighboring areas - should've absorbed most of those J, R1 and E when they assimilated most of the Western Eurasian-derived population that occupied most of the steppe from Hungary to Kazakhstan until the Iron Age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreptul Valah View Post
    The Getic king Burebista had conquered the Scythians,bure=man in Albanian.


    "Pannoniae,Pamfiliae,Macedonianae...per Hunos erant fatigatae,BLACKIS,qui ipsorum fuerent pastores et coloni remanentibus sponte in Pannonia"


    Of course,De Keza only knew about the more recent situation,that is,the Magyars.


    http://adevaruldespredaci.ro/2015/02...ta-budapestei/
    The paper you attached is extremely nationalistic.Are you aware of that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    The paper you attached is extremely nationalistic.Are you aware of that?
    You're overreacting, it only has texts from the Hungarian chronicles,maybe next time you have a better reply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    E among huns god if you are correct it is big .....
    among Scythian could be logic but huns..... that would be a surprise :)
    Yea. Although i am not 100% sure.

    I think i have figured out which samples are Scythian, which samples are Xiongnu, and which samples are Mongols.

    But with the rest of the samples, which should be Turks and Huns i dont know who is who. The two sets of samples look so much alike. One of the only differences is that the first cluster got an E sample, while the second don't. So the E could still be part of the Turkic samples, although i still think it's part of the Huns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, I guess "J" made it out of the Caucasus again.
    Yea some of them could be later newcomers from the mountains.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if at least some of the J2a samples could claim at least a couple thousand of years of continuity on the steppe.
    After all, J2a was also found among EHG in the Central and South Asian paper.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Valerius's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    there are 2 E
    1 of them is E-V22

    https://yfull.com/tree/E-V22/
    and the other 1 is E-m123*
    https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y31991/

    valerius the bulgarian from this forum if you reading this you should be excited as this paper found your clade ancestor ..... :)
    as you belong to E-PF4428
    I must say i'm quite surprised to see my haplo among the Steppe folk but I can't find any info from which period is DA19, where was unearthed and from which archaeological group...

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    We're going to have to wait until the paper comes out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    We're going to have to wait until the paper comes out.
    Lest hope its not like the Caucasus paper thats taking forever.

    Many haplogroups from the list have a south Caucasian distribution, is Caucasus ancestry higher in Scythians compared to MBA Steppe ? there is a legend that Scythians migrated from Caucasus to the Steppe.

    Herodotus says:

    There is also another different story, now to be related, in which I am more inclined to put faith than in any other. It is that the wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae, but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria.

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