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Thread: EU participation on US bombing in syria

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    your question was answered. i don't know what you want. that i say it was all assad's fault? that would be a lie. are you now also going to say that ISIS was assad's fault?
    again, assad did not have the whole syrian people against him and not all took up arms. is it also their fault?
    read the post before. syria is not a homogenous region with many different people with many different interessts. you have to look at why people took up arms. and more than half of the rebels are actually jihadists. are they not responsible?
    you are still talking as if the majority of the rebels were fighting for democracy and human rights. but what the hell makes you think so? it is sadly not the case.
    when the kurds start to take up arms in turkey against erdogan who is responisble? the kurds or erdogan?
    when the catalonians want to be independent who is responsible? spain or the catalonians?
    If in your country there is, for example, an economic crisis, you as a citizen, the first question you ask is, where is my government what the hell is happening here? You do not ask what happened on Wall Street or in City of London. And it's a very normal thing. Why you do not use the same standard here too?
    I am an ignorant person about the current situation in Syria and i ask you because you look like an informed person. In this country called Syria there is a war going on from several years. This war has destroyed this poor country to such an extent that there is no person on earth and God in heaven who can return this country to the limits of normality. And it is normal that if we want to make a sincere analysis of the situation, the first question to ask is, what are the responsibilities of the current government in Syria for the situation created? And when we say government in Syria it is obvious that we mean Assad because he's been with his family for decades now ruling this country, not Putin, not Trump. Is the concept clear now?
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    If in your country there is, for example, an economic crisis, you as a citizen, the first question you ask is, where is my government what the hell is happening here? You do not ask what happened on Wall Street or in City of London. And it's a very normal thing. Why you do not use the same standard here too?
    I am an ignorant person about the current situation in Syria and i ask you because you look like an informed person. In this country called Syria there is a war going on from several years. This war has destroyed this poor country to such an extent that there is no person on earth and God in heaven who can return this country to the limits of normality. And it is normal that if we want to make a sincere analysis of the situation, the first question to ask is, what are the responsibilities of the current government in Syria for the situation created? And when we say government in Syria it is obvious that we mean Assad because he's been with his family for decades now ruling this country, not Putin, not Trump. Is the concept clear now?
    the responsibilities he has? you mean why people took up arms against him right? the jihadists did it because of obvious reasons(assad even banned face veils at universities). then there are definitly also other people who wanted to fight for more personal freedom and you also have the kurds who now want to be independant. though i do not know when exactly the kurds really started with this idea. maybe they just try to make something out of this war but they actually didn't want to start it. those are the people who should be supported somehow. but they are too few vs too many. the srategy of the US seems to be that the jihadists overthrow assad.
    but a big part of the syrian people actually seems to be still supporting assad. especially religious minorities.
    though all i can do is google this stuff. i never was in syria myself.

    https://www.quora.com/What-do-Syrian...ashar-al-Assad
    https://www.thoughtco.com/who-suppor...regime-2353574
    https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Assad-is-actually-the-good-guy-in-Syria-not-the-bad-guy-Is-it-actually-the-rebels-and-ISIS-that-are-the-bad-guys-in-Syria



  3. #53
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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Right: it's the fault of Iran and Pakistan that Russia invaded and occupied Afghanistan. They PUSHED Russia into doing it and doing it brutally as well.

    Absolutely. You learn new things every day. Russia is just misunderstood. They took over all of eastern Europe for the sake of Eastern Europeans. They just wanted to HELP them. Anyone who says they drained them dry and oppressed them is a dastardly liar. Those damn Czechs and Hungarians and Poles just didn't know what was good for them. What were they thinking of to revolt?

    Has it ever occurred to any of you people that the Berlin Wall, for example, had to be built to prevent East Germans from fleeing FROM the wonderful Communist system? On the other hand, some Americans want to build a wall to prevent the entire freaking world from fleeing TO us?

    Listen buddy, if there's anything that everybody should have learned by now it's that capitalism, with all its flaws (which have to be guarded against), brings more prosperity to more people than any other system we have, and far more than communism. You know of another economic system you want to try?

    You don't want to live in a democracy, flawed though it may be? Fine. VOTE in communism, or IMPOSE it by force, whatever, where you can be ruled by an oligarchy with their own stores and doctors and vacation spots while you pretend to work and they pretend to pay you, and they tell you where to live, where to work, what to buy. Prefer fascism? You've had it before. Knock yourself out.

    That goes for all Europeans. Just don't ever again expect Americans to rescue you from either fascism or communism. I think America is finally out of the rescue business.

    Correct myLady,



    DO NOT TELL A GREEK ABOUT EAST EUROPE OR WEST EUROPE,
    WE ARE THE ONLY EUROPEANS WHO SUFFERED A 5 YEARS CIVIL WAR FOR COMMUNISM OR CAPITALISM,

    I DO NOT SEE ANY CZECH, ANY HUNGARIAN, ANY POLISH, IN THE PICTURE, WHY?

    OFFCOURSE I DO NOT SEE EVEN A GREEK, .
    AT LEAST DO YOU SEE ANY ITALIAN THERE? JUST FOR THE QUESTION,
    ANY CROAT OR SERB?
    WHY? THEY DID NOT FOUGHT FOR FREEDOM?

    NO, THE WINNER WERE USA, British Empire, AND RUSSIA,
    The other nations did not fought for their Freedom, as it seems, at least in the eyes of USA President Franklin Roosevelt, and Russian/Soviet Joseph Stalin.

    WHO DECIDED THE FUTURE OF SMALL NATIONS

    Come on,
    As for capitalism and Communism,
    CAPITALISM TODAY IS DEAD, AS ALSO COMMUNISM,
    TODAY WE LIVE THE DICTATORSHIP OF BANKERS IN THE WEST,
    AND 'PRESIDENT' MAFIA IN THE EAST.

    YES myLady,
    small Nations have no will,
    THE BIG ONES decide for them!!!!!!
    As happened in YALTA.



    YOU ARE SPEAKING TO A GREEK,
    WHO MAYBE (thank Gods Not in very close family) HIS FAMILY WAS DIVIDED AND FOUGHT EACH OTHER, or kidnapped abroad
    FOR THE SHAKE OF STALIN AND ROOSEVELT chess game and DIVISION OF THE WORLD.

    if you think that today we have "Free world'
    and not dictatorship even to modern Goverments,
    Well, at LEAST WE STILL HAVE SOME FREEDOM OF SPEECH, I hope.
    BUT SURELY WE ARE BRAINWASHED BY MEDIA,
    SO NOT TO THINK, THEY THINK FOR US.

    Bomb bomb Caserola chauldron grenade
    (I hope FBI do not invate my house )

    THE PARADOX OR THE TRAGIC
    THE MOST SUCCEFULL COUNTRY,
    IN THE MODERN CAPITALISTIC WORD
    IS THE COMMUNISTIC CHINA,
    WOW (is the world turning crazy? or I am stupid? )


    EAST EUROPE WAS GIVEN TO STALIN,
    NOT TAKEN,
    WONDER BY WHO AND WHERE THAT AGREEMENT WAS DONE!!!!!
    offcourse Eastern Europeans were there, but as properties, as land, as cattle for bargain, not Free will.


    PS
    black market existed in ex Soviet
    kompot was the heroin behind Iron Curtain

    plain handmade heroin is still cheap enough for cancer pains
    heroin is still the most powerfull in women trafficing drug

    Do not mess with the 'humblle farmers of opium'
    they are usefull,
    as also the 'humble farmers of coca'
    they are usefull too

    Enough, my mind is going to blow,
    by just thinking what to eat,
    easier is to eat already chewed brain food by media.

    PS 2
    Winston Churchill
    was he a communist?
    Is that a cuban cigar he is holding?
    hm
    HOW COME HE ESCAPE Joseph Mc Carthy

    if I smoke Cohiba, what am i?
    Communist or capitalist?
    Last edited by Yetos; 20-04-18 at 07:43.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  4. #54
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    If in your country there is, for example, an economic crisis, you as a citizen, the first question you ask is, where is my government what the hell is happening here? You do not ask what happened on Wall Street or in City of London. And it's a very normal thing. Why you do not use the same standard here too?
    I am an ignorant person about the current situation in Syria and i ask you because you look like an informed person. In this country called Syria there is a war going on from several years. This war has destroyed this poor country to such an extent that there is no person on earth and God in heaven who can return this country to the limits of normality. And it is normal that if we want to make a sincere analysis of the situation, the first question to ask is, what are the responsibilities of the current government in Syria for the situation created? And when we say government in Syria it is obvious that we mean Assad because he's been with his family for decades now ruling this country, not Putin, not Trump. Is the concept clear now?

    LABERIA
    BETTER ASK YOUR SHELF,
    WHO CREATED SYRRIA,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%...icot_Agreement

    WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHO CREATED SYRRIA,
    THE OFFCOURSE YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND HER FUTURE,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    LABERIA
    BETTER ASK YOUR SHELF,
    WHO CREATED SYRRIA,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%...icot_Agreement

    WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHO CREATED SYRRIA,
    THE OFFCOURSE YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND HER FUTURE,
    Thanks for your suggestion Yetos, i know who created SYRRIA.
    I want to suggest to you and to this german member to read this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_%C4%90ukanovi%C4%87

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    the majority of the population is syria is sunni-muslim. that's where "al-nusra", "front of islam", "army of islam", ISIS, "Ahrar al-Sham", and also the free syrian army, FSA, come from. the later wasn't officially islamist but it later lost many its members because they joined islamist groups and it also cooparated with other islamist groups. it was also said that the FSA was selling the weapons, that it got from america and others, to ISIS. maybe they once were not islamist but it seems they were hijacked.
    there really doesn't seem to be one major rebel group that is not islamist right now except the kurds. thats also why the US supported the kurds so they could fight ISIS. there was simply no other group that wasn't infiltrated already and motivated to fight them. afterwards the US abandoned the kurds again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    the majority of the population is syria is sunni-muslim. that's where "al-nusra", "front of islam", "army of islam", ISIS, "Ahrar al-Sham", and also the free syrian army, FSA, come from. the later wasn't officially islamist but it later lost many its members because they joined islamist groups and it also cooparated with other islamist groups. it was also said that the FSA was selling the weapons, that it got from america and others, to ISIS. maybe they once were not islamist but it seems they were hijacked.
    there really doesn't seem to be one major rebel group that is not islamist right now except the kurds. thats also why the US supported the kurds so they could fight ISIS. there was simply no other group that wasn't infiltrated already and motivated to fight them. afterwards the US abandoned the kurds again.
    Everything you say goes in line with Russian version of events. I wonder why?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Everything you say goes in line with Russian version of events. I wonder why?
    Everything you say goes in line with US version of events. I wonder why?
    Don't you forget Iraq my friend?
    They even don't need to invent something new for guys like you.
    Who need this event (so called "chemical attack")? Assad? Russians? I really don't think so.
    Don't tell me stupidities a-la Angela about Putin propaganda. I can say the same about your brainwashed opinion.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mich Glitch View Post
    Everything you say goes in line with US version of events. I wonder why?
    Don't you forget Iraq my friend?
    They even don't need to invent something new for guys like you.
    Who need this event (so called "chemical attack")? Assad? Russians? I really don't think so.
    Don't tell me stupidities a-la Angela about Putin propaganda. I can say the same about your brainwashed opinion.
    Healthy debate does not involve ad hominem attacks, especially on moderators. You've received an infraction for this.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Everything you say goes in line with Russian version of events. I wonder why?
    When I said about occupy wall street, you laughed,
    and it is in the annex of Democracy, and different opinions,

    Tell me, When you said that Putin & Assant will raise the oil prices,
    Was it your idea? or a repley radio broadcast?

    Come on,

    There is no need to revive Stalinism, neither McCarty-ism,

    I will not survive another another civil war, or Junda,


    PS
    Do you know the story of my avatar?

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Everything you say goes in line with Russian version of events. I wonder why?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahrar_al-Sham
    "Ahrar al-Sham became the largest rebel group in Syria after the Free Syrian Army became less powerful. Ahrar al-Sham and Jaysh al-Islam are the main rebel groups supported by Turkey and Saudi Arabia."

    "Ahrar al-Sham leader Hassan Aboud stated that Ahrar al-Sham worked with the Nusra Front and would have no problems with al-Nusra as long as they continued fighting the regime. Aboud also said Ahrar worked with the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in some battles, but that their agenda was disagreeable."

    ""He said all parties, whether they were ISIL, al-Nusra, the Islamic Front, or the FSA, shared the same objective of establishing an Islamic state, but they differed as to the "tactics, strategies or methods""



    "Ahrar al-Sham has defined itself in this way:

    The Islamic Movement of the Free Men of the Levant is an Islamist, reformist, innovative and comprehensive movement. It is integrated with the Islamic Front and is a comprehensive and Islamic military, political and social formation. It aims to completely overthrow the Assad regime in Syria and build an Islamic state whose only sovereign, reference, ruler, direction, and individual, societal and nationwide unifier is Allah Almighty's Sharia (law)."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Healthy debate does not involve ad hominem attacks, especially on moderators. You've received an infraction for this.
    Sure. So called freedom of speech and expression is just another myth of our society.
    Many people believe that USA bomb and kill to improve the world.
    Many people.
    Believe.
    Not me.
    I don't wanna discuss with these true belivers their faith.
    I am here for genealogy only.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Correct myLady,



    DO NOT TELL A GREEK ABOUT EAST EUROPE OR WEST EUROPE,
    WE ARE THE ONLY EUROPEANS WHO SUFFERED A 5 YEARS CIVIL WAR FOR COMMUNISM OR CAPITALISM,

    I DO NOT SEE ANY CZECH, ANY HUNGARIAN, ANY POLISH, IN THE PICTURE, WHY?

    OFFCOURSE I DO NOT SEE EVEN A GREEK, .
    AT LEAST DO YOU SEE ANY ITALIAN THERE? JUST FOR THE QUESTION,
    ANY CROAT OR SERB?
    WHY? THEY DID NOT FOUGHT FOR FREEDOM?

    NO, THE WINNER WERE USA, British Empire, AND RUSSIA,
    The other nations did not fought for their Freedom, as it seems, at least in the eyes of USA President Franklin Roosevelt, and Russian/Soviet Joseph Stalin.

    WHO DECIDED THE FUTURE OF SMALL NATIONS

    Come on,
    As for capitalism and Communism,
    CAPITALISM TODAY IS DEAD, AS ALSO COMMUNISM,
    TODAY WE LIVE THE DICTATORSHIP OF BANKERS IN THE WEST,
    AND 'PRESIDENT' MAFIA IN THE EAST.

    YES myLady,
    small Nations have no will,
    THE BIG ONES decide for them!!!!!!
    As happened in YALTA.



    YOU ARE SPEAKING TO A GREEK,
    WHO MAYBE (thank Gods Not in very close family) HIS FAMILY WAS DIVIDED AND FOUGHT EACH OTHER, or kidnapped abroad
    FOR THE SHAKE OF STALIN AND ROOSEVELT chess game and DIVISION OF THE WORLD.

    if you think that today we have "Free world'
    and not dictatorship even to modern Goverments,
    Well, at LEAST WE STILL HAVE SOME FREEDOM OF SPEECH, I hope.
    BUT SURELY WE ARE BRAINWASHED BY MEDIA,
    SO NOT TO THINK, THEY THINK FOR US.

    Bomb bomb Caserola chauldron grenade
    (I hope FBI do not invate my house )

    THE PARADOX OR THE TRAGIC
    THE MOST SUCCEFULL COUNTRY,
    IN THE MODERN CAPITALISTIC WORD
    IS THE COMMUNISTIC CHINA,
    WOW (is the world turning crazy? or I am stupid? )


    EAST EUROPE WAS GIVEN TO STALIN,
    NOT TAKEN,
    WONDER BY WHO AND WHERE THAT AGREEMENT WAS DONE!!!!!
    offcourse Eastern Europeans were there, but as properties, as land, as cattle for bargain, not Free will.


    PS
    black market existed in ex Soviet
    kompot was the heroin behind Iron Curtain

    plain handmade heroin is still cheap enough for cancer pains
    heroin is still the most powerfull in women trafficing drug

    Do not mess with the 'humblle farmers of opium'
    they are usefull,
    as also the 'humble farmers of coca'
    they are usefull too

    Enough, my mind is going to blow,
    by just thinking what to eat,
    easier is to eat already chewed brain food by media.

    PS 2
    Winston Churchill
    was he a communist?
    Is that a cuban cigar he is holding?
    hm
    HOW COME HE ESCAPE Joseph Mc Carthy

    if I smoke Cohiba, what am i?
    Communist or capitalist?
    Yes, you swing from fascism to communism and back. It's democracy which seems difficult for you, even in ancient times. You wouldn't have been able to win that post WWII battle against Communists without our help, but you conveniently seem to forget that. Or perhaps you would have preferred for the Communists to win?

    Could you ever address the point instead of meandering all over the place? My point was that the Hungarians revolted in the 50s, the Czechs after that,and then the Poles. If Soviet domination was so wonderful, why did they revolt?

    As for Yalta, the major powers, who won and also spilt the most blood and treasure, divided up the spheres of influence. Has it ever been otherwise in the history of the world? The only problem is that Roosevelt was ill and let Stalin run roughshod over him, and before that didn't let American troops go all the way to the borders of Russia and stop them there. A terrible mistake. That's what sometimes happens when political leaders don't listen to their generals.

    You can't possibly mean to compare the fate of Western Europe to Eastern Europe after the war? I don't really give a damn whether it was ultimately good for American business or not. Business and trade was good for everyone, Europe and the U.S. as well. I, for one, am glad that Italy modernized and industrialized at an even faster clip after the war. There's nothing romantic about herding sheep and goats or being a subsistence farmer. Much better to work in electronics and computers. I can't remember conquered countries ever being treated so well. They rebuilt in record time, became prosperous in record time. Western Europe wasn't a prison, unlike the East. People wanted to stay. Is there some resentment at American influence? Yes, there is. It's human nature. Would it please some Europeans better if after winning your damn war for you, AGAIN, America just pulled out and let you muddle through for decades by yourselves? It's absurd.

    As for the Greek civil war, you're damn right that Russia supported the Communists and the U.S. the other side. Would you prefer the U.S. had let Greece fall under Communist domination. Would Greece have been better off?

    What I find objectionable about your whole point of view is that for you Greece is always the victim, never an active participant in its own fate. The Communists who killed and tortured Greeks, and abducted Greek children to send them to "education camps" were GREEKS. Stop blaming everyone else.

    We had a Civil War in Italy too, for two years under Nazi occupation, and then for almost a year later. Some of the partisans, especially the Communist ones, killed the people of the Fascist brigades and vice versa even after the war was over and there was no reason other than revenge. I don't know anyone who goes around blaming the Americans or the Russians for that. If some Italians killed other Italians, whether justified or not depending on the circumstances, it's on the head of the people who did it. I don't even blame the Germans for what the Italian fascists did (although I sure blame them for what they themselves did). They CHOSE to do it. We're not puppets of other people. We're not victims when we take sides in these major conflicts. When you make certain choices you have to take the consequences, including the moral ones.

    You should read the memoir "Eleni" by Nicholas Cage, about his mother, who was arrested, tortured, and executed by Greek communists for the crime of saving her children from being kidnapped and sent behind the Iron Curtain for re-education. Or maybe it isn't sold in Greece for some reason.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/224285.Eleni
    Last edited by Angela; 21-04-18 at 01:04.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yes, you swing from fascism to communism and back. It's democracy which seems difficult for you, even in ancient times. You wouldn't have been able to win that post WWII battle against Communists without our help, but you conveniently seem to forget that. Or perhaps you would have preferred for the Communists to win?
    You have said that many times but stop it. You haven't helped anyone personally, the government of USA did support a side but the actions of major powers are dictated by their interests. I would have supported the non-communist side (although former Nazi collabolators were part of that side too) but communists lost because Soviet Union didn't really support them.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yes, you swing from fascism to communism and back. It's democracy which seems difficult for you, even in ancient times. You wouldn't have been able to win that post WWII battle against Communists without our help, but you conveniently seem to forget that. Or perhaps you would have preferred for the Communists to win?

    Could you ever address the point instead of meandering all over the place? My point was that the Hungarians revolted in the 50s, the Czechs after that,and then the Poles. If Soviet domination was so wonderful, why did they revolt?

    As for Yalta, the major powers, who won and also spilt the most blood and treasure, divided up the spheres of influence. Has it ever been otherwise in the history of the world? The only problem is that Roosevelt was ill and let Stalin run roughshod over him, and before that didn't let American troops go all the way to the borders of Russia and stop them there. A terrible mistake. That's what sometimes happens when political leaders don't listen to their generals.

    You can't possibly mean to compare the fate of Western Europe to Eastern Europe after the war? I don't really give a damn whether it was ultimately good for American business or not. Business and trade was good for everyone, Europe and the U.S. as well. I, for one, am glad that Italy modernized and industrialized at an even faster clip after the war. There's nothing romantic about herding sheep and goats or being a subsistence farmer. Much better to work in electronics and computers. I can't remember conquered countries ever being treated so well. They rebuilt in record time, became prosperous in record time. Western Europe wasn't a prison, unlike the East. People wanted to stay. Is there some resentment at American influence? Yes, there is. It's human nature. Would it please some Europeans better if after winning your damn war for you, AGAIN, America just pulled out and let you muddle through for decades by yourselves? It's absurd.

    As for the Greek civil war, you're damn right that Russia supported the Communists and the U.S. the other side. Would you prefer the U.S. had let Greece fall under Communist domination. Would Greece have been better off?

    What I find objectionable about your whole point of view is that for you Greece is always the victim, never an active participant in its own fate. The Communists who killed and tortured Greeks, and abducted Greek children to send them to "education camps" were GREEKS. Stop blaming everyone else.

    We had a Civil War in Italy too, for two years under Nazi occupation, and then for almost a year later. Some of the partisans, especially the Communist ones, killed the people of the Fascist brigades and vice versa. I don't know anyone who goes around blaming the Americans or the Russians. If some Italians killed other Italians, whether justified or not depending on the circumstances, it's on the head of the people who did it. I don't even blame the Germans for what the Italian fascists did (although I sure blame them for what they themselves did). They CHOSE to do it. We're not puppets of other people. We're not victims when we take sides in these major conflicts. When you make certain choices you have to take the consequences, including the moral ones.

    You should read the memoir "Eleni" by Nicholas Cage, about his mother, who was arrested, tortured, and executed by Greek communists for the crime of saving her children from being kidnapped and sent behind the Iron Curtain for re-education. Or maybe it isn't sold in Greece for some reason.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/224285.Eleni
    hm

    plz
    USA did nothing for greek civil war.
    USA just made us a Junda at 1967,
    and she also disband it at 1973 to bring another Dictator to mess withCyprus so Attila plan work,
    (remember Henry Kissinger)
    It was Churcill who send the ANZAC and the 3000 Indians of Scombie,
    Roosevelt just gave Greece to Stalin,
    Churchill disagreed,
    and yes communists in Greece at that time were enough.
    more than you think, reching 70% in some areas,
    remember the Disater of '22-23, not even 2 decades, meaning 1 generation past and WW2 started.

    But Greeks also turn the face to Communism due to Blent treaty,
    and Belingrad congress, the mix of Dimitrov of third communist international.
    Communists wanted to create Makedonia as a Slavic country, so to exit Meditterenean,
    that move made Greeks turn their back to communism,
    Communists organisations and military groups from 40 % of population, and armed of 25-30% remained less than 8 % and 3%,
    Barkiza treaty, as also the case of greek communists president Zahariades is known.

    USA did nothing for Greek civil war,
    and when we volunteer for Korea at '50s
    we had more casulties by USA artillery, than chinese army.

    the only thing that USA did was 'marshal plan' (rofl)
    and a Junda, and because Junda did not obey Kissinger,
    they change it (president of CIA at Clinton's presidency, Robin) to bring another to mess with Cyprus,

    COME ON.

    WW2 casulaties did had only USA and RUSSIA AND BRITAIN,
    search who had bigger in analogy, not in numbers.


    AND I AM PROUD,
    CAUSE MY COUNTRY FOUGHT AGAINST FASISM AND NAZISM, AND COMMUNISM,
    AND ALSO DOES NOT CHEW AMERICAN GUM,
    ALTHOUGH SHE IS UNDER CONTROL,
    WE DO NOT CHEW THEIR SHIT.
    SIMPLY AS THAT.

    I know about Eleni Gkatzoyianni
    and that hurt us all Greeks, 2 generations after, and will keep more,
    as many others.

    My family in the years of civil war were considered fasists, (my grand father was double taxated, and other relatives were 'rich', so 2 times they took him to hung him)
    and at the times of Junta were considered Communists, (they arrested my father for gathering of relatives in his name day, some of them Communists)

    For their Democratic believes, for not being devoted to the 'system' these groups provide,

    SO IF YOU BELIVE IN DEMOCRACY,
    THEN YOU MUST RESPECT THE RIGHTs OF OTHERS, to SHELF CONTROL
    ESPECIALLY THE FREEDOM OF SPEACH,
    DOES THAT HAPPENED AT YALTA?
    NO BIG POWERS DIVIDE THE WORLD, AND CREATE ZONES OF INFLUENCE, ( or control)

    WHO LEGALIZE ROOSEVELT AND STALIN TO DIVIDE GERMANY?
    OR TO RULE OVER POLAND? OR BELGIUM? etc

    SO MAY I KEEP MY SHELF THE TERMINATION FREE,
    NOT A COMMUNIST, NOT A MODERN CAPITALIST?

    I want to spend capitalistic USA dollars, and Smoke communistic Cuban Cohiba
    I want to eat italian pizza from Ukraine's grain , and drive a german car made in Brazil, use francais perfumes made in cote d'ivore,
    watch chinese communistic karate movies, and play korean capitalistic video games,
    under a japanese clima / air-condition, with the sounds of british metal music
    But really I do not want to drink cola. but Greek coffee from Kenya
    MAY I?
    I DO NOT WANT COMMUNISM
    I DO NOT WANT MONEY DICTATORS, or DEMOCRACY PADRONES,

    offcourse you can ask me about the politician in my country,
    and all I couls say is .....
    and you would have a big part of right and truth.

    DEMOCRACY NEED NO PADRONES TO PROTECT HER, ( or to sell her)
    so as person there are a lot of Russian who I admire
    there are a lot of Americans who I admire
    BUT I WANT TO STAY OUT OF THEIR GAMES AS THIS IS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE I STILL HAVE PRSONALITY, AND I AM FREE, as the last can be possible today
    CAUSE PLANET TODAY IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SMALL VILLAGE,
    THERE IS MORE CHAOS IN BIG CITIES, THAN IN PLANET AND UN.

    The theory of ΤΟ ΜΗ ΧΕΙΡΟΝ ΒΕΛΤΙΣΤΟΝ (ancient Greek rhyme) Among 2 bad things, the less harmfull is better, means not one out of two, is a good thing, but less harmfull.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    You have said that many times but stop it. You haven't helped anyone personally, the government of USA did support a side but the actions of major powers are dictated by their interests. I would have supported the non-communist side (although former Nazi collabolators were part of that side too) but communists lost because Soviet Union didn't really support them.
    Who are you to tell me I can't express my opinion about these things? You don't get to tell me how to interpret history, the history of a time period I've spent a good part of my life studying.

    You prove my point. It's always someone else's fault, never your own.

    It's the same thing with this financial quagmire. Your government decided to lie on its application to the EU. It also decided to buy worthless bonds. Were the people who sold them at fault? Of course, they were. That doesn't excuse your government's criminal lack of due diligence in investigating the bonds or its fraud on the EU.

    I've always hated the fact that so many Italians are the first to trash their own country and their own leaders, but it's better than excuses upon excuses and always playing the victim.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    hm

    plz
    USA did nothing for greek civil war.
    USA just made us a Junda at 1967,
    and she also disband it at 1973 to bring another Dictator to mess withCyprus so Attila plan work,
    (remember Henry Kissinger)
    It was Churcill who send the ANZAC and the 3000 Indians of Scombie,
    Roosevelt just gave Greece to Stalin,
    Churchill disagreed,
    and yes communists in Greece at that time were enough.
    more than you think, reching 70% in some areas,
    remember the Disater of '22-23, not even 2 decades, meaning 1 generation past and WW2 started.

    But Greeks also turn the face to Communism due to Blent treaty,
    and Belingrad congress, the mix of Dimitrov of third communist international.
    Communists wanted to create Makedonia as a Slavic country, so to exit Meditterenean,
    that move made Greeks turn their back to communism,
    Communists organisations and military groups from 40 % of population, and armed of 25-30% remained less than 8 % and 3%,
    Barkiza treaty, as also the case of greek communists president Zahariades is known.

    USA did nothing for Greek civil war,
    and when we volunteer for Korea at '50s
    we had more casulties by USA artillery, than chinese army.

    the only thing that USA did was 'marshal plan' (rofl)
    and a Junda, and because Junda did not obey Kissinger,
    they change it (president of CIA at Clinton's presidency, Robin) to bring another to mess with Cyprus,

    COME ON.

    WW2 casulaties did had only USA and RUSSIA AND BRITAIN,
    search who had bigger in analogy, not in numbers.


    AND I AM PROUD,
    CAUSE MY COUNTRY FOUGHT AGAINST FASISM AND NAZISM, AND COMMUNISM,
    AND ALSO DOES NOT CHEW AMERICAN GUM,
    ALTHOUGH SHE IS UNDER CONTROL,
    WE DO NOT CHEW THEIR SHIT.
    SIMPLY AS THAT.

    I know about Eleni Gkatzoyianni
    and that hurt us all Greeks, 2 generations after, and will keep more,
    as many others.

    My family in the years of civil war were considered fasists, (my grand father was double taxated, and other relatives were 'rich', so 2 times they took him to hung him)
    and at the times of Junta were considered Communists, (they arrested my father for gathering of relatives in his name day, some of them Communists)

    For their Democratic believes, for not being devoted to the 'system' these groups provide,

    SO IF YOU BELIVE IN DEMOCRACY,
    THEN YOU MUST RESPECT THE RIGHTs OF OTHERS, to SHELF CONTROL
    ESPECIALLY THE FREEDOM OF SPEACH,
    DOES THAT HAPPENED AT YALTA?
    NO BIG POWERS DIVIDE THE WORLD, AND CREATE ZONES OF INFLUENCE, ( or control)

    WHO LEGALIZE ROOSEVELT AND STALIN TO DIVIDE GERMANY?
    OR TO RULE OVER POLAND? OR BELGIUM? etc

    SO MAY I KEEP MY SHELF THE TERMINATION FREE,
    NOT A COMMUNIST, NOT A MODERN CAPITALIST?

    I want to spend capitalistic USA dollars, and Smoke communistic Cuban Cohiba
    I want to eat italian pizza from Ukraine's grain , and drive a german car made in Brazil, use francais perfumes made in cote d'ivore,
    watch chinese communistic karate movies, and play korean capitalistic video games,
    under a japanese clima / air-condition, with the sounds of british metal music
    But really I do not want to drink cola. but Greek coffee from Kenya
    MAY I?
    I DO NOT WANT COMMUNISM
    I DO NOT WANT MONEY DICTATORS, or DEMOCRACY PADRONES,

    offcourse you can ask me about the politician in my country,
    and all I couls say is .....
    and you would have a big part of right and truth.

    DEMOCRACY NEED NO PADRONES TO PROTECT HER, ( or to sell her)
    so as person there are a lot of Russian who I admire
    there are a lot of Americans who I admire
    BUT I WANT TO STAY OUT OF THEIR GAMES AS THIS IS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE I STILL HAVE PRSONALITY, AND I AM FREE, as the last can be possible today
    CAUSE PLANET TODAY IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SMALL VILLAGE,
    THERE IS MORE CHAOS IN BIG CITIES, THAN IN PLANET AND UN.

    The theory of ΤΟ ΜΗ ΧΕΙΡΟΝ ΒΕΛΤΙΣΤΟΝ (ancient Greek rhyme) Among 2 bad things, the less harmfull is better, means not one out of two, is a good thing, but less harmfull.
    You're completely incoherent, illogical, and appallingly ignorant of your own history. I guess you should talk to your fellow Greek. He at least seems to be aware of the 600 million dollars in aid that was given to Greece during the Greek Civil War.

    See:
    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a284240.pdf

    There aren't an infinite number of economic systems out there. The one that runs the best and produces the most gain for the most people is capitalism. That should be obvious. The smartest thing to do is become more capitalistic, and cut out as much corruption as possible.

    As for being under the sphere of influence of the U.S., that's the way of the world. Small countries are under the influence of larger, more powerful countries. Once upon a time the top dog was Greece, then Italy, then eventually England, then Russia and the U.S. and now it's only America. Maybe someday it will be China. I assure you that of the major powers and soon to be powers of today you're much better off being in the American sphere. Plus, I hate to break the news to you, but you're not really on the U.S. radar other than when you default on your debt. If you pay your bills all the U.S. wants to do is trade with you. Your internal affairs are your business unless they threaten to disrupt the peace and prosperity of other countries.

    That's the reality. You're dealing in fantasy. There's nothing to be gained by talking to people who prefer fantasy to reality, so I'm out.

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    - United We Stand -
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    “one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”


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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    hm
    plz
    I want to spend capitalistic USA dollars, and Smoke communistic Cuban Cohiba
    I want to eat italian pizza from Ukraine's grain , and drive a german car made in Brazil, use francais perfumes made in cote d'ivore,
    watch chinese communistic karate movies, and play korean capitalistic video games,
    under a japanese clima / air-condition, with the sounds of british metal music
    But really I do not want to drink cola. but Greek coffee from Kenya
    MAY I?
    Of course, but in the end, who pays the bill for all these things?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You're completely incoherent, illogical, and appallingly ignorant of your own history. I guess you should talk to your fellow Greek. He at least seems to be aware of the 600 million dollars in aid that was given to Greece during the Greek Civil War.

    See:
    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a284240.pdf

    There aren't an infinite number of economic systems out there. The one that runs the best and produces the most gain for the most people is capitalism. That should be obvious. The smartest thing to do is become more capitalistic, and cut out as much corruption as possible.

    As for being under the sphere of influence of the U.S., that's the way of the world. Small countries are under the influence of larger, more powerful countries. Once upon a time the top dog was Greece, then Italy, then eventually England, then Russia and the U.S. and now it's only America. Maybe someday it will be China. I assure you that of the major powers and soon to be powers of today you're much better off being in the American sphere. Plus, I hate to break the news to you, but you're not really on the U.S. radar other than when you default on your debt. If you pay your bills all the U.S. wants to do is trade with you. Your internal affairs are your business unless they threaten to disrupt the peace and prosperity of other countries.

    That's the reality. You're dealing in fantasy. There's nothing to be gained by talking to people who prefer fantasy to reality, so I'm out.

    So to the roasted meat dish,
    and avoid garniture,

    1. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT USA IS INNOCENT ABOUT SYRRIA?
    I DO NOT SAY RESPONSIBLE.
    I SAY THAT IT HAS a % OF RESPONSIBILITY.

    2. Do you believe that SADAM HAD CHEMICAL WEAPONS,
    AND THE INVASION TO IRAQ WAS TO STOP HIM PRODUCING THEM? as media said
    or something else?

    3. If Assant had chemical weapons, and as the officers say the missile target the factories,
    Do you think is wise to bomb a chemical weapon tank?



    and back to garniture,
    cause it is very spicy and hot,
    at 1821 my country took a loan from British empire,
    That loan last until 1980's and payed more than x60 times the primary,
    THAT LOAN ALMOST COST THE FAILURE OF GREEK REVOLT
    THE FAILURE OF ATHENS SIEGE, AND THE DEATH OF KARAISKAKIS GENERAL COMMANDER OF ROUMELI.
    IF my country took 600 millions dollars,
    how many reached in Greece, HOW much was the true help?
    and how much went to corruption?
    FOR 600 MILLION DOLLARS I WOULD BE ETERNAL PRESIDENT OF GREECE 60 years, yes indeed,
    Except if that is the amount of how much cost corruption,
    in such case, seems our politicians are very smart, AND VERY EXPENSIVE,
    at 1950's 1 dollar was about 1,4 Drachmas, and bread if existed, cost 0,0 !!!! 1$ = 4 drachmas at middle of 60's
    Since at that time the basic money of a public assistance worker was about 1,80-2 drachmas = about 1-2 dollar per month and at late 1950's was 3,60 per month.
    reaching about mixed 120 000 drachmas and in hand about 95 000 at 1990's and Dolllar = 400-450 drachmas,
    WOW Too much money to buy corrupted Greek politicians!!!!!!!
    you could have buy both Athens and Thessaloniki that time with such money!!!!


    By Kazantzakis.
    ΛΟΓΑΤΑΙ ΣΩΣΤΑ
    ΟΠOΙΟΣ ΛΟΓΑΤΑΙ ΛΕΥΤΕΡΑ.
    (Correct thinking and counting, makes the one who thinks and counts FREE)

    Today I am not FREE, SO I CAN THINK CORRECT,
    I AM NOT FREE, CAUSE I AM EXTRA TAXATED, AND MUST PAY EVEN FOR THE AIR I BREATHE.
    THE EFFECT OF MODERN CRISIS, IS THAT I CAN NOT THINK FREE.
    BUT I TOOK NOTHING, SO I DO NOT OWN SOMETHING,
    AND AS A PARSON I AM FREE.

    BACK TO FREE WORLD,
    AWAY FROM MODERN CAPITALISM AND COMMUNISM.
    THEY BOTH SUCK AND SMELL BADLY.

    I DO NOT WANT A PRISON FOR MY HEART,
    MY HEART BELONGS TO ME,
    I WANT TO VIEW THINGS AS A FREE MAN.
    NOT AS SOMEONE WHO IS AFRAID, OR OWNS,

    to end
    600 000 000 US DOLLARS IS TOO MUCH MONEY At 1950's
    TO CORRUPT GREEK POLITIANS,
    EVEN TODAY, CONSIDER AT 1950's
    GREEKS CHEATED YOU.
    Sorry but it sounds as an anecdotal, as joke.
    could the Cola factory, build that time, cost so many ???

    PS
    if we both know about Army and military,
    then in the first minute we would realise
    THE BOMBING WAS A TEST AND A MESSAGE.
    A test, cause they wanted to see how effective is Russian defense, and Syrria
    cause by the 'road' of the missile ballistic, passed above Russian bases,
    what guns the defender has.
    A message, but I can not explain what mean, I am not a diplomat, neither a psycologist, to analyze it.

    cause simply if Assant had lets say 2 tones of Sharin gas and at leat 1 tomahawk bomb them
    you would have myriads of deaths (myriad = 10 000) and not just breathing problems

    MY APOLOGIES, AND MY RESULT,
    I do not blaim USA or France or Britain for bombing Assant,
    as I do not blaim Putin for helping him,

    BUT IS A VERY CHEAP EXCUSSION, AS THE ONE IN SADAM,
    FOR SOMEONE WHO USES DEPLETED URANIUM IN HIS WEAPONS.


    I HOPE NOT TO BE MISSUNDERSTOOD,
    I AM CLEAR ENOUGH I THINK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Of course, but in the end, who pays the bill for all these things?
    the Marshall plan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    - United We Stand -
    United States of America

    “one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”





    I also wear American Nike made in Vietnam
    I drink American cola made in Bulgaria,
    imported American chicken from who knows,
    and American burgers from Brasilian cattles
    AND I POSSES a korean CAT s-60 mobile phone
    BUT MY FRIEND HAS AN AMERICAN iphone8 made in china



    PS
    does an American has all this?
    cause I think I live better in America, though I am not,

    Oh, and I smoke Camel, (american - domestic tobaco) once given to US troops
    but today are Japanese tobaco inc

  23. #73
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    EU participation on US bombing in syria

    5 ways Americans and Europeans are different

    Americans and Europeans often have different perspectives on individualism, the role of government, free expression, religion and morality.

    1 Americans are more likely to believe they control their own destiny.
    2 Americans tend to prioritize individual liberty, while Europeans tend to value the role of the state to ensure no one in society is in need.
    3 There is greater tolerance in the U.S. than in Europe for offensive speech
    4. Religion is significantly less important to Europeans than to Americans.
    5. Americans and Europeans don’t always agree on questions about morality,

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...are-different/

    Even Jesus paid his taxes:
    “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's”

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    5 ways Americans and Europeans are different

    Americans and Europeans often have different perspectives on individualism, the role of government, free expression, religion and morality.

    1 Americans are more likely to believe they control their own destiny.
    2 Americans tend to prioritize individual liberty, while Europeans tend to value the role of the state to ensure no one in society is in need.
    3 There is greater tolerance in the U.S. than in Europe for offensive speech
    4. Religion is significantly less important to Europeans than to Americans.
    5. Americans and Europeans don’t always agree on questions about morality,

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...are-different/

    Even Jesus paid his taxes:
    “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's”
    Yes but Jesus went to desert for tenths of days to be free from media,
    and think clear, He beat the devil,
    Do we ?

    Americas last war was the civil war at 19th century,
    in Europe we had 2 World Wars in a generation time, before 2 generations
    and the previous generation grew up in the cold war era.

    when an American boy grew listening Elvis and dancing RnR
    Europeans were growing with fear of war.

    I think we do not need to expand to that,

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    the Marshall plan
    Marshall plan was very important in rebuilding West Europe and Greece, of course. But you have to be also respectful even towards Europeans:
    In government Edit
    At the October 1981 national elections the PASOK won a landslide victory with 48% of the vote and capturing 173 seats; it formed the first socialist government in the history of Greece since 1924. Although Papandreou had campaigned for withdrawal of Greece from NATO and the European Economic Community, after a strong request by the rest of the party members and its supporters, changed his policy towards both institutions. He proved to be an excellent negotiator when it came to securing benefits and subsidies for Greece from the EEC. For example, in 1985 he openly threatened Jacques Delors to veto the entry of Spain and Portugal in the Community in order to secure more monetary aid for Greece.[8]
    And this is the third element if we want to explain the Greek economic miracle, must be said that you are very good in negotiating.

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