Yes, you swing from fascism to communism and back. It's democracy which seems difficult for you, even in ancient times. You wouldn't have been able to win that post WWII battle against Communists without our help, but you conveniently seem to forget that. Or perhaps you would have preferred for the Communists to win?
Could you ever address the point instead of meandering all over the place? My point was that the Hungarians revolted in the 50s, the Czechs after that,and then the Poles. If Soviet domination was so wonderful, why did they revolt?
As for Yalta, the major powers, who won and also spilt the most blood and treasure, divided up the spheres of influence. Has it ever been otherwise in the history of the world? The only problem is that Roosevelt was ill and let Stalin run roughshod over him, and before that didn't let American troops go all the way to the borders of Russia and stop them there. A terrible mistake. That's what sometimes happens when political leaders don't listen to their generals.
You can't possibly mean to compare the fate of Western Europe to Eastern Europe after the war? I don't really give a damn whether it was ultimately good for American business or not. Business and trade was good for everyone, Europe and the U.S. as well. I, for one, am glad that Italy modernized and industrialized at an even faster clip after the war. There's nothing romantic about herding sheep and goats or being a subsistence farmer. Much better to work in electronics and computers. I can't remember conquered countries ever being treated so well. They rebuilt in record time, became prosperous in record time. Western Europe wasn't a prison, unlike the East. People wanted to stay. Is there some resentment at American influence? Yes, there is. It's human nature. Would it please some Europeans better if after winning your damn war for you, AGAIN, America just pulled out and let you muddle through for decades by yourselves? It's absurd.
As for the Greek civil war, you're damn right that Russia supported the Communists and the U.S. the other side. Would you prefer the U.S. had let Greece fall under Communist domination. Would Greece have been better off?
What I find objectionable about your whole point of view is that for you Greece is always the victim, never an active participant in its own fate. The Communists who killed and tortured Greeks, and abducted Greek children to send them to "education camps" were GREEKS. Stop blaming everyone else.
We had a Civil War in Italy too, for two years under Nazi occupation, and then for almost a year later. Some of the partisans, especially the Communist ones, killed the people of the Fascist brigades and vice versa. I don't know anyone who goes around blaming the Americans or the Russians. If some Italians killed other Italians, whether justified or not depending on the circumstances, it's on the head of the people who did it. I don't even blame the Germans for what the Italian fascists did (although I sure blame them for what they themselves did). They CHOSE to do it. We're not puppets of other people. We're not victims when we take sides in these major conflicts. When you make certain choices you have to take the consequences, including the moral ones.
You should read the memoir "Eleni" by Nicholas Cage, about his mother, who was arrested, tortured, and executed by Greek communists for the crime of saving her children from being kidnapped and sent behind the Iron Curtain for re-education. Or maybe it isn't sold in Greece for some reason.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/224285.Eleni
hm
plz
USA did nothing for greek civil war.
USA just made us a Junda at 1967,
and she also disband it at 1973 to bring another Dictator to mess withCyprus so Attila plan work,
(remember Henry Kissinger)
It was Churcill who send the ANZAC and the 3000 Indians of Scombie,
Roosevelt just gave Greece to Stalin,
Churchill disagreed,
and yes communists in Greece at that time were enough.
more than you think, reching 70% in some areas,
remember the Disater of '22-23, not even 2 decades, meaning 1 generation past and WW2 started.
But Greeks also turn the face to Communism due to Blent treaty,
and Belingrad congress, the mix of Dimitrov of third communist international.
Communists wanted to create Makedonia as a Slavic country, so to exit Meditterenean,
that move made Greeks turn their back to communism,
Communists organisations and military groups from 40 % of population, and armed of 25-30% remained less than 8 % and 3%,
Barkiza treaty, as also the case of greek communists president Zahariades is known.
USA did nothing for Greek civil war,
and when we volunteer for Korea at '50s
we had more casulties by USA artillery, than chinese army.
the only thing that USA did was 'marshal plan' (rofl)
and a Junda, and because Junda did not obey Kissinger,
they change it (president of CIA at Clinton's presidency, Robin) to bring another to mess with Cyprus,
COME ON.
WW2 casulaties did had only USA and RUSSIA AND BRITAIN,
search who had bigger in analogy, not in numbers.
AND I AM PROUD,
CAUSE MY COUNTRY FOUGHT AGAINST FASISM AND NAZISM, AND COMMUNISM,
AND ALSO DOES NOT CHEW AMERICAN GUM,
ALTHOUGH SHE IS UNDER CONTROL,
WE DO NOT CHEW THEIR SHIT.
SIMPLY AS THAT.
I know about Eleni Gkatzoyianni
and that hurt us all Greeks, 2 generations after, and will keep more,
as many others.
My family in the years of civil war were considered fasists, (my grand father was double taxated, and other relatives were 'rich', so 2 times they took him to hung him)
and at the times of Junta were considered Communists, (they arrested my father for gathering of relatives in his name day, some of them Communists)
For their Democratic believes, for not being devoted to the 'system' these groups provide,
SO IF YOU BELIVE IN DEMOCRACY,
THEN YOU MUST RESPECT THE RIGHTs OF OTHERS, to SHELF CONTROL
ESPECIALLY THE FREEDOM OF SPEACH,
DOES THAT HAPPENED AT YALTA?
NO BIG POWERS DIVIDE THE WORLD, AND CREATE ZONES OF INFLUENCE, ( or control)
WHO LEGALIZE ROOSEVELT AND STALIN TO DIVIDE GERMANY?
OR TO RULE OVER POLAND? OR BELGIUM? etc
SO MAY I KEEP MY SHELF THE TERMINATION FREE,
NOT A COMMUNIST, NOT A MODERN CAPITALIST?
I want to spend capitalistic USA dollars, and Smoke communistic Cuban Cohiba :biggrin:
I want to eat italian pizza from Ukraine's grain , and drive a german car made in Brazil, use francais perfumes made in cote d'ivore,
watch chinese communistic karate movies, and play korean capitalistic video games,
under a japanese clima / air-condition, with the sounds of british metal music
But really I do not want to drink cola. but Greek coffee from Kenya
MAY I?
I DO NOT WANT COMMUNISM
I DO NOT WANT MONEY DICTATORS, or DEMOCRACY PADRONES,
offcourse you can ask me about the politician in my country,
and all I couls say is .....
and you would have a big part of right and truth.
DEMOCRACY NEED NO PADRONES TO PROTECT HER, ( or to sell her)
so as person there are a lot of Russian who I admire
there are a lot of Americans who I admire
BUT I WANT TO STAY OUT OF THEIR GAMES AS THIS IS POSSIBLE,
BECAUSE I STILL HAVE PRSONALITY, AND I AM FREE, as the last can be possible today
CAUSE PLANET TODAY IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SMALL VILLAGE,
THERE IS MORE CHAOS IN BIG CITIES, THAN IN PLANET AND UN.
The theory of
ΤΟ ΜΗ ΧΕΙΡΟΝ ΒΕΛΤΙΣΤΟΝ (ancient Greek rhyme) Among 2 bad things, the less harmfull is better, means not one out of two, is a good thing, but less harmfull.
)
