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Thread: Was E-V13 a major lineage of Hallstatt Celts and Italics?

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    When it comes to Balkan Slav logic way of thinking, they will try to deny any Albanian-Illyrian connection until doomsday.


    Whatever complain you guys pose about Albanians, it's your fault solely. You started this stupid games in online boards, Albanians didn't give **** until they spotted your sneaky nature and how you spread lies.


    Let me ask you something, starting from Bulgarians, Macedonians, Serbs, Croatians and Bosnians. Which population of you can explain the meaning of your nation ethnonym in your own native language? None of you.


    Atleast Albanians, can explain everything regarding themself, Shqip, Arber, Ilir, Dardan, Bardhyl etc etc etc. Deal with it.

    Well I am far from a typical Balkan Slav. I have no problem with Albanians being Illyrians, and I even said that majority of Albanians have such Illyrian Y-DNA connection.


    You see, I am a bit different. My paternal family is Serb, but I spent much more time with Bosniaks. My Bosniak side is not typical for most Bosniaks as well. Composed of very Ottoman elements., that mostly claim Turkish origin, and some I believe do have it. From that side I am descended of these people
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahije

    Actually Dahije were from Serbia, but my grandfathers ancestry were mostly their equivalent from Sarajevo. Actually in 1804. Karadjordje came to Sarajevo and one of persons he met with was I believe grandfathers paternal ancestor, or some member of that family. About not reacting to his rebellion, I think he attempted some bribe.

    Most Bosniaks cannot trace much of their ancestry, from that part of my ancestry I know usually at least 200+ years.


    Well obviously Bulgarians, Macedonians can't surely. Croats, Bosnians likely can't. Serbs, it seems Serbs can actually! I used to think Serb ethnonym was foreign until recently.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    The majority of Albanians don't want/believe E-V13 to be Illyrian because of ideas from Hoxha's dictatorship or "victimization", but it's because of the fact that this group is believed by most to have been in the area for a long time, and so for most Albanians they will connect it to the Illyrians. Anyways, certain E-V13 clades are most certainly connected to the Illyrians or Western Balkans, so it isn't exactly wrong. Sure, I won't deny that it is also fueled by nationalism to an extent. If anything it seems you have more of an emotional connection to this.

    By "victimisation cult" I mean tendency of various ethnic groups to present them as "older than our enemies", crying "everything was fine until you came and started oppressing us". This is typical for many ethnic groups everywhere. But it doesn't fit with my World view well, I don't think invaders and "oppressors" are necessarily bad people.


    That is the reason (not the only reason, others are far more legitimate like Schramm etc) why some Serbs push some Bessi or similar theory so that Serbs can be there in Western Balkans before Albanians. "Albanians are Paleobalkan but Slavs were earlier in Albania than carriers of Albanians language. "

    I agree that there are lots of Illyrian E-V13 clades. Never disputed that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Also, I don't see how Illyrian E-V13 has to be "2nd rate Pelasgian" or whatever in your eyes. Most accept that this haplogroup expanded during the Bronze Age with IE speaking groups. Honestly this whole, "my haplogroup ordered yours around" is just cringe and since when are V13 Albanians "court jesters of J-L283 or R-Z2705"?
    The thing is Pelasgian link was always assumed for V13 since a decade ago. For ex at poreklo still most "knowledgeable guys" consider it Pelasgian, non-IE, "having nothing to do with Illyrians, Thracians, Greeks but pre-IE population". I remember first coming there and seeing discussion about Albanians claiming E-V13 as their and Illyrian, and seeing responses like "they have no right to claim any Illyrian precendence based on E-V13 because E-V13 has nothing to do with original Illyrians, they are pre-Indoeuropeans..


    Among Montenegrins, there are some people whose tribes have had "problems", and for example some tribes don't like Vasojevici, because they pushed and submitted many clans in 18th, 19th century, when you see their interactions you instantly thing of this clan telling Vasojevici "ah see we are Slavic and you came out non-Slavic". Once I think one Vasojevic commented how one family from Durmitor who are I2a arrived from Central Balkans/Macedonian area which is probable due to their clade etc. The I2a guy whose tribe has bad relations with Vasojevici said to him "but they are Slavic", implying "and you are not" which he didn't say but ofc he meant it.

    Funny to me seeing these guys who consider being Slavic something special, because I always rated far more Germanics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    If anything it seems you have more of an emotional connection to this.
    I got into genealogy some time ago, I was taught by older relatives who knew about some old families, who descended of some elite Bosniak families and who consider those of "bad origin" (whose ancestors were not wealthy/powerful in 19th, 18th century etc.) as something "below".

    I always considered Slavs to possess plenty of "peasant mentality", being "non-elite"/"plebian", from my POV that is bad.. Everybody in these discussion has preferences, I can recognize what they are in most cases..


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    As for the Dacians, so far there are 2 samples (males samples that is) that could be considered Dacian (from Glinoe, Moldova):
    1) Scy305 - R-Z2106
    2) Scy197 - E-FGC44169 (Rafc from Anthrogenica checked the sample and found out that it was FGC44168+)

    Yes I heard E-FGC44169 was isolated. I checked only for CTS9320 and Z5018 to which he was negative, and I think S7461 (now below FGC44169).

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Well I am far from a typical Balkan Slav. I have no problem with Albanians being Illyrians, and I even said that majority of Albanians have such Illyrian Y-DNA connection.


    You see, I am a bit different. My paternal family is Serb, but I spent much more time with Bosniaks. My Bosniak side is not typical for most Bosniaks as well. Composed of very Ottoman elements., that mostly claim Turkish origin, and some I believe do have it. From that side I am descended of these people
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahije

    Actually Dahije were from Serbia, but my grandfathers ancestry were mostly their equivalent from Sarajevo. Actually in 1804. Karadjordje came to Sarajevo and one of persons he met with was I believe grandfathers paternal ancestor, or some member of that family. About not reacting to his rebellion, I think he attempted some bribe.

    Most Bosniaks cannot trace much of their ancestry, from that part of my ancestry I know usually at least 200+ years.


    Well obviously Bulgarians, Macedonians can't surely. Croats, Bosnians likely can't. Serbs, it seems Serbs can actually! I used to think Serb ethnonym was foreign until recently.






    By "victimisation cult" I mean tendency of various ethnic groups to present them as "older than our enemies", crying "everything was fine until you came and started oppressing us". This is typical for many ethnic groups everywhere. But it doesn't fit with my World view well, I don't think invaders and "oppressors" are necessarily bad people.


    That is the reason (not the only reason, others are far more legitimate like Schramm etc) why some Serbs push some Bessi or similar theory so that Serbs can be there in Western Balkans before Albanians. "Albanians are Paleobalkan but Slavs were earlier in Albania than carriers of Albanians language. "

    I agree that there are lots of Illyrian E-V13 clades. Never disputed that.




    The thing is Pelasgian link was always assumed for V13 since a decade ago. For ex at poreklo still most "knowledgeable guys" consider it Pelasgian, non-IE, "having nothing to do with Illyrians, Thracians, Greeks but pre-IE population". I remember first coming there and seeing discussion about Albanians claiming E-V13 as their and Illyrian, and seeing responses like "they have no right to claim any Illyrian precendence based on E-V13 because E-V13 has nothing to do with original Illyrians, they are pre-Indoeuropeans..


    Among Montenegrins, there are some people whose tribes have had "problems", and for example some tribes don't like Vasojevici, because they pushed and submitted many clans in 18th, 19th century, when you see their interactions you instantly thing of this clan telling Vasojevici "ah see we are Slavic and you came out non-Slavic". Once I think one Vasojevic commented how one family from Durmitor who are I2a arrived from Central Balkans/Macedonian area which is probable due to their clade etc. The I2a guy whose tribe has bad relations with Vasojevici said to him "but they are Slavic", implying "and you are not" which he didn't say but ofc he meant it.

    Funny to me seeing these guys who consider being Slavic something special, because I always rated far more Germanics.




    I got into genealogy some time ago, I was taught by older relatives who knew about some old families, who descended of some elite Bosniak families and who consider those of "bad origin" (whose ancestors were not wealthy/powerful in 19th, 18th century etc.) as something "below".

    I always considered Slavs to possess plenty of "peasant mentality", being "non-elite"/"plebian", from my POV that is bad.. Everybody in these discussion has preferences, I can recognize what they are in most cases..





    Yes I heard E-FGC44169 was isolated. I checked only for CTS9320 and Z5018 to which he was negative, and I think S7461 (now below FGC44169).
    I have hard time to connect E-V13 with pelasgians considering this map IMG_4067.JPG


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Well I am far from a typical Balkan Slav. I have no problem with Albanians being Illyrians, and I even said that majority of Albanians have such Illyrian Y-DNA connection.


    You see, I am a bit different. My paternal family is Serb, but I spent much more time with Bosniaks. My Bosniak side is not typical for most Bosniaks as well. Composed of very Ottoman elements., that mostly claim Turkish origin, and some I believe do have it. From that side I am descended of these people
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahije

    Actually Dahije were from Serbia, but my grandfathers ancestry were mostly their equivalent from Sarajevo. Actually in 1804. Karadjordje came to Sarajevo and one of persons he met with was I believe grandfathers paternal ancestor, or some member of that family. About not reacting to his rebellion, I think he attempted some bribe.

    Most Bosniaks cannot trace much of their ancestry, from that part of my ancestry I know usually at least 200+ years.


    Well obviously Bulgarians, Macedonians can't surely. Croats, Bosnians likely can't. Serbs, it seems Serbs can actually! I used to think Serb ethnonym was foreign until recently.






    By "victimisation cult" I mean tendency of various ethnic groups to present them as "older than our enemies", crying "everything was fine until you came and started oppressing us". This is typical for many ethnic groups everywhere. But it doesn't fit with my World view well, I don't think invaders and "oppressors" are necessarily bad people.


    That is the reason (not the only reason, others are far more legitimate like Schramm etc) why some Serbs push some Bessi or similar theory so that Serbs can be there in Western Balkans before Albanians. "Albanians are Paleobalkan but Slavs were earlier in Albania than carriers of Albanians language. "

    I agree that there are lots of Illyrian E-V13 clades. Never disputed that.




    The thing is Pelasgian link was always assumed for V13 since a decade ago. For ex at poreklo still most "knowledgeable guys" consider it Pelasgian, non-IE, "having nothing to do with Illyrians, Thracians, Greeks but pre-IE population". I remember first coming there and seeing discussion about Albanians claiming E-V13 as their and Illyrian, and seeing responses like "they have no right to claim any Illyrian precendence based on E-V13 because E-V13 has nothing to do with original Illyrians, they are pre-Indoeuropeans..


    Among Montenegrins, there are some people whose tribes have had "problems", and for example some tribes don't like Vasojevici, because they pushed and submitted many clans in 18th, 19th century, when you see their interactions you instantly thing of this clan telling Vasojevici "ah see we are Slavic and you came out non-Slavic". Once I think one Vasojevic commented how one family from Durmitor who are I2a arrived from Central Balkans/Macedonian area which is probable due to their clade etc. The I2a guy whose tribe has bad relations with Vasojevici said to him "but they are Slavic", implying "and you are not" which he didn't say but ofc he meant it.

    Funny to me seeing these guys who consider being Slavic something special, because I always rated far more Germanics.




    I got into genealogy some time ago, I was taught by older relatives who knew about some old families, who descended of some elite Bosniak families and who consider those of "bad origin" (whose ancestors were not wealthy/powerful in 19th, 18th century etc.) as something "below".

    I always considered Slavs to possess plenty of "peasant mentality", being "non-elite"/"plebian", from my POV that is bad.. Everybody in these discussion has preferences, I can recognize what they are in most cases..





    Yes I heard E-FGC44169 was isolated. I checked only for CTS9320 and Z5018 to which he was negative, and I think S7461 (now below FGC44169).
    Did you checkout the paper from 2017 by serkan dogan in regards to bosnian ydna
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

  4. #129
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    That's it.

    Another Albanian ruined thread.

    You're lucky a bunch of you aren't banned.

    DO NOT GO OFF TOPIC TO GET INTO YOUR ALBANIAN NATIONALIST CENTERED VIEW OF GENETICS.

    Thread is closed.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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