Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 37 of 37

Thread: Messapian - Albanian connection

  1. #26
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post

    Greater Messapia
    Trailer of a docufiction
    http://<a href="https://youtu.be/r9a...9agh50jFNU</a>
    current linguistic chit chat states that messapian could be Thracian
    .
    The hypothesis that Thracian and Albanian form a distinct branch (often in these scenarios, along with Dacian) of Indo-European is given much consideration even today. A few of the cognates between Thracian and Albanian may actually represent borrowings from one language to another;[citation needed] in most cases this is ruled out because a word or lexical item follows the sound-changes expected in the language from its PIE sound-changes.
    Among the cognates between Thracian and Albanian: the Thracian inscription mezenai on the Duvanli gold ring has been unanimously linked to Messapian menzana (=horse deity) to Albanian mëz (=pony), as well as to Romanian mânz (=colt), and it is agreed that Thracian mezenai meant 'horseman'; Thracian manteia is supposed to be cognate to Albanian mand (=mulberry).
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  2. #27
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    5,287

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Messapian - Albanian connection

    Menzana in Leccese dialect (Lecce was part of Messapia), refers to a specific Metal Container used for liquids.
    This is the Menzana

    I posted this pic in the past too.
    Menzana could also refer to “Mezza” - Half - as part of a standard of measurement.

    La Menza e Giove (Jupiter) Menzana

    http://www.fondazioneterradotranto.i...le-dalla-rete/
    🕷️

  3. #28
    Regular Member Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    1,037

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L1029>Y133379
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2b*

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Very interesting. Just saw this thread now. Going to give it a read.

  4. #29
    Regular Member Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    1,037

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L1029>Y133379
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2b*

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    The data used in the study are inaccurate. Let say Greeks have high presence of J2a which is not reflected. Also R1a among Albanians of Macedonia is over 13%. Few things I noted while quickly scanning the article. As for Illyrian ancestry of Puglia that is documented but proving it through DNA its not quite convincing. When Illyrians arrived there other people already living so the present day people are a mixture. Also Puglia has a lot of recent Albanian immigrants from middle ages to present.
    Theres no official source for the levels of R1a in Albanians from Macedonia. Some figures suggest its lower than Albania within only a 3 percent range.

  5. #30
    Regular Member Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    1,037

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L1029>Y133379
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2b*

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Yes if the mods are watching, this is what tutkun means:
    "Stupid, backwards, idiot".

    Arnaut is turkish word for Albanian which can be used derogatorily.
    So his username speaks for itself..

    http://fjalorthi.com/tutkun
    He's a Qen bir Qeni. With a capital Q.

  6. #31
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    5,287

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    King Arthas
    King Arthas - The Great Lion of Messapia
    500 BC Messapian epos based on the deeds of King Arthas the Great.
    (Link Updated)
    The Lion of Messapia





  7. #32
    Regular Member Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-06-17
    Posts
    1,553

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    3 members found this post helpful.
    Iapygians



    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

  8. #33
    Regular Member Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-06-17
    Posts
    1,553

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    2 members found this post helpful.


    According to Pierpaolo Di Carlo, the archaeology and material context of the Novilara Stele with the North Picene language points to it having trans-adriatic origin, aka groups known as "Illyrian". The relation to daunian steles (messapic speakers) and liburnian boats (unclear if liburnian was venetic-like or northern "illyric" on spectrum with messapic).
    There is also genetic evidence that this author was not aware of. From 2018 Y-dna study of Italians, populations of Apulia and Po valley were discovered to have elevated J2b/Ev13. These are paleobalkan paternal lineages comparatively absent in Slavs. J2b particularly is a specifically Albanian lineage with it being almost absent in Greeks also, and most concentrated in north-west Gheg Albanians. J2b has been discovered in a 3500 year old tumuli in croatian coast, meaning it is a confirmed paleo-balkan adriatic lineage (~30% of Albanian men belong to this lineage).
    What this means in layman terms is that there are more Italians in Po valley and Apulia than any other region of Italy, that share the same male ancestor as 60% of Albanians within 2000-3000 years.
    While the elevation in Apulia is accounted for by the Messapic linguistic connection/affinities to Albanian, there is as of yet no such explanation for the Po Valley genetic relation. The north picene language stele is discovered at the mouth of the po valley.
    The archaeological and material culture of the North Picene elevates the probability that it has a connection with Messapics or Liburnians. In conjuction with the Y-dna relations, this elevated probability is compounded upon.
    LINK: https://www.academia.edu/2003399/Len...esto_culturale

  9. #34
    Regular Member Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-06-17
    Posts
    1,553

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    In Veneti art, we see priestesses wearing a dress similar to the Albanian Xhubleta, which Baron Franz Nopcsa believed was related to the Minoan priestess dress.

    The Ancient Veneti people of Italy spoke an isolate language somwhere in between the Illyrian & Italo-Celtic IE branch.










  10. #35
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    03-11-21
    Posts
    9


    Country: Italy



    it being understood that the Daunian were different from the Messapi, but since we are also talking about Messapi here, I consider the recent discovery (08.01.2022) which took place in the Lower Salento to be relevant.
    New light on the Messapi, research in the necropolis of Alezio (Lower Salento). An excavation campaign unearths tombs and the ceremonial square of the site in Puglia. The grave of a child; olives as an offering to propitiate the afterlife. The Messapian necropolis of Monte d'Elia, in Alezio, thanks to an initial research campaign conducted by the Archeology Laboratory of the University of Salento, offers new evidence of an ancient civilization. The findings: a ceremonial square, numerous tombs, including that of a child, an ossuary, the remains of olives, are just some of the new discoveries. Having concluded the excavation operations in recent days, we now continue with the analysis of the finds. Over the course of a few weeks of research, new fundamental data emerged for the knowledge of Messapian civilization, first of all through the topographical reconstruction of the Monte d'Elia area and the recognition of the funerary rituals practiced there in ancient times. Of extreme importance is the fact that concerns the identification of a large ceremonial square around which, within enclosures built with large boulders, the groups of tombs belonging to nuclei of families or clans were concentrated. This was the arrival point of the processions that accompanied the deceased on the last journey from the house to the place of burial. More detailed elements come from the excavation of burials that were not intercepted during the investigations of the 1980s by the Archaeological Superintendence of Puglia. In fact, a pit was identified, with a floor in limestone blocks and a frame in carparo, inside which the remains of at least 12 individuals were accumulated. In short, an ossuary linked to the functioning of the necropolis and to the practice of reusing funerary structures for various depositions. Some objects belonging to the grave goods were found, such as a lamp, a plate, a trozzella, a typical Messapian vase, two loom weights and a javelin point.

  11. #36
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-06-18
    Posts
    1,235

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283/J-Y197198

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Maxximo55# View Post
    it being understood that the Daunian were different from the Messapi, but since we are also talking about Messapi here, I consider the recent discovery (08.01.2022) which took place in the Lower Salento to be relevant.
    New light on the Messapi, research in the necropolis of Alezio (Lower Salento). An excavation campaign unearths tombs and the ceremonial square of the site in Puglia. The grave of a child; olives as an offering to propitiate the afterlife. The Messapian necropolis of Monte d'Elia, in Alezio, thanks to an initial research campaign conducted by the Archeology Laboratory of the University of Salento, offers new evidence of an ancient civilization. The findings: a ceremonial square, numerous tombs, including that of a child, an ossuary, the remains of olives, are just some of the new discoveries. Having concluded the excavation operations in recent days, we now continue with the analysis of the finds. Over the course of a few weeks of research, new fundamental data emerged for the knowledge of Messapian civilization, first of all through the topographical reconstruction of the Monte d'Elia area and the recognition of the funerary rituals practiced there in ancient times. Of extreme importance is the fact that concerns the identification of a large ceremonial square around which, within enclosures built with large boulders, the groups of tombs belonging to nuclei of families or clans were concentrated. This was the arrival point of the processions that accompanied the deceased on the last journey from the house to the place of burial. More detailed elements come from the excavation of burials that were not intercepted during the investigations of the 1980s by the Archaeological Superintendence of Puglia. In fact, a pit was identified, with a floor in limestone blocks and a frame in carparo, inside which the remains of at least 12 individuals were accumulated. In short, an ossuary linked to the functioning of the necropolis and to the practice of reusing funerary structures for various depositions. Some objects belonging to the grave goods were found, such as a lamp, a plate, a trozzella, a typical Messapian vase, two loom weights and a javelin point.
    Nice share. Can't wait to read about all the findings in a few years. Grazie
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

    Franz Kafka

  12. #37
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,797

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maxximo55# View Post
    it being understood that the Daunian were different from the Messapi, but since we are also talking about Messapi here, I consider the recent discovery (08.01.2022) which took place in the Lower Salento to be relevant.
    New light on the Messapi, research in the necropolis of Alezio (Lower Salento). An excavation campaign unearths tombs and the ceremonial square of the site in Puglia. The grave of a child; olives as an offering to propitiate the afterlife. The Messapian necropolis of Monte d'Elia, in Alezio, thanks to an initial research campaign conducted by the Archeology Laboratory of the University of Salento, offers new evidence of an ancient civilization. The findings: a ceremonial square, numerous tombs, including that of a child, an ossuary, the remains of olives, are just some of the new discoveries. Having concluded the excavation operations in recent days, we now continue with the analysis of the finds. Over the course of a few weeks of research, new fundamental data emerged for the knowledge of Messapian civilization, first of all through the topographical reconstruction of the Monte d'Elia area and the recognition of the funerary rituals practiced there in ancient times. Of extreme importance is the fact that concerns the identification of a large ceremonial square around which, within enclosures built with large boulders, the groups of tombs belonging to nuclei of families or clans were concentrated. This was the arrival point of the processions that accompanied the deceased on the last journey from the house to the place of burial. More detailed elements come from the excavation of burials that were not intercepted during the investigations of the 1980s by the Archaeological Superintendence of Puglia. In fact, a pit was identified, with a floor in limestone blocks and a frame in carparo, inside which the remains of at least 12 individuals were accumulated. In short, an ossuary linked to the functioning of the necropolis and to the practice of reusing funerary structures for various depositions. Some objects belonging to the grave goods were found, such as a lamp, a plate, a trozzella, a typical Messapian vase, two loom weights and a javelin point.
    can you link this investigation?

    all I have is

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/ancient-litera...ject-case2.htm

    which IMO, the Messapic is a language created after the Daunian Illyrians arrived in Italy and absorbed the local italic tribes under their rule
    Since Daunian neighbours have always been only the Samnites until the third Roman-Samnite war , I expect these italic tribes to be an off-shoot of the Samnites

    Samnites are an offshoot of Sabellic who are an off-shoot of the Umbri people

    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •