Do you consider every European born person European?

[Georgewalley]

With the increase of migrations from the Near East, East Asia and Africa there's a growing number of European born people who has recent ancestors from different parts of the world.

What's the criteria to be considered European? Is it just a geographical location and means nothing more merely than certain countries lumped together by artificial means?

Do you consider the Balkans which was never really part of the Western hemisphere with it's muslim, Turkish occupied past the same way as a part of Europe as you consider UK or the Canary Islands which are much closer to the African continent than to Europe?

 

[LeBrok]

Do you consider Europeans born in US and Canada, Americans? Perhaps you should use term like European heritage or genetic european heritage, otherwise this issue will be always confusing and unanswered.

 

[Georgewalley]

Do you consider Europeans born in US and Canada, Americans? Perhaps you should use term like European heritage or genetic european heritage, otherwise this issue will be always confusing and unanswered.

How would you define European heritage? A third generational Turkish whose ancestors been living in Germany, was born, working there and identify as German quality as European or he'll always be regarded as foreign because he's genetically not like a typical German person.

 

[LeBrok]

How would you define European heritage? A third generational Turkish whose ancestors been living in Germany, was born, working there and identify as German quality as European or he'll always be regarded as foreign because he's genetically not like a typical German person.

Good questions. It shows how difficult it is to slap clean labels and definitions on people in today's world. We have also millions of kids of mixed couples of different origin. How do we classify their kids?
I don't mean we can't or we shouldn't, but we have to exercise big amount of flexibility and forgiveness, and be understanding to others trying.
Personally, I don't care much, and it depends. For reason of traveling and passports, everybody born or resettled for good to Europe, should be European. For genetic heritage purposes, not that much. For cultural, everybody who feels and behaves European should be one.

 

[IronSide]

How would you define European heritage? A third generational Turkish whose ancestors been living in Germany, was born, working there and identify as German quality as European or he'll always be regarded as foreign because he's genetically not like a typical German person.

The simple layman will never accept the argument of geography, anyone who is racially different from his people will never be part of the tribe. The enlightened philosophy of the equality of peoples regardless of race never went through his head.

Is Europe diverse racially? would you consider a Russian or Spanish person living in Germany normal and acceptable but not an Egyptian? or a Turk? why?

 

[LeBrok]

The simple layman will never accept the argument of geography, anyone who is racially different from his people will never be part of the tribe. The enlightened philosophy of the equality of peoples regardless of race never went through his head.

Is Europe diverse racially? would you consider a Russian or Spanish person living in Germany normal and acceptable but not an Egyptian? or a Turk? why?

To humor, I don't think Russians want to be Europeans anymore.

 

[Georgewalley]

The simple layman will never accept the argument of geography, anyone who is racially different from his people will never be part of the tribe. The enlightened philosophy of the equality of peoples regardless of race never went through his head.

Is Europe diverse racially? would you consider a Russian or Spanish person living in Germany normal and acceptable but not an Egyptian? or a Turk? why?

This may be the case in Arabic countries where tribes been marrying with first cousins since generations, but most Europeans lack this clanish mentality. Nowadays it's common to see Liverpool footbal fans of any color or ethnicity in Britain and since they go to the same school, have the same right to vote I'd doubt the majority would feel different.

 

[IronSide]

This may be the case in Arabic countries where tribes been marrying with first cousins since generations, but most Europeans lack this clanish mentality. Nowadays it's common to see Liverpool footbal fans of any color or ethnicity in Britain and since they go to the same school, have the same right to vote I'd doubt the majority would feel different.

So it's ok if a German born but fully Nigerian person declares himself European ?

 

[AdeoF]

In my option no to be honest. I think science play a key part of one identity. I do find it odd that people say "oh if he's born there, that means he's from there". So if i was born in Mars but i got all of my admixture from earth. Does that mean i'm 100% martian just because i was popped out over there, dissipate scientifically i'm 100% earthing???

 

[Georgewalley]

So it's ok if a German born but fully Nigerian person declares himself European ?

There's nothing wrong if someone of foreign descent but born and raised in X country consider himself so. What I find more important that immigration should be limited and those with proper education and ambitions should be allowed to get a citizenship and those who disrespect the local laws and culture should get deported back where they came from.

 

[Georgewalley]

In my option no to be honest. I think science play a key part of one identity. I do find it odd that people say "oh if he's born there, that means he's from there". So if i was born in Mars but i got all of my admixture from earth. Does that mean i'm 100% martian just because i was popped out over there, dissipate scientifically i'm 100% earthing???

But every human is from earth and the differences between us are mainly limited in the physical adaptations to certain geographical areas. I think culture matters much more than race or genetics. Every person is descendant of immigrants in the sense thousands of years ago our ancestors still lived in the Middle East before then our ancestors lived in Africa and so there's no point to pinpoint every admixtures or looks that look foreign in our hemisphere when we share far more in common than what differentiates us.

 

[IronSide]

There's nothing wrong if someone of foreign descent but born and raised in X country consider himself so. What I find more important that immigration should be limited and those with proper education and ambitions should be allowed to get a citizenship and those who disrespect the local laws and culture should get deported back where they came from.

Ok, so how do you measure proper education or degree of respect to local laws?

Another question, is Islam fundamentally alien to European values (e.g. freedom of religion), if an immigrant is a Muslim and you had the choice to reject him or not, would you?

 

[Georgewalley]

Ok, so how do you measure proper education or degree of respect to local laws?

Another question, is Islam fundamentally alien to European values (e.g. freedom of religion), if an immigrant is a Muslim and you had the choice to reject him or not, would you?

It's all based on the workforce and the resources needed to fill certain jobs. Each country has different needs and migrants should be prepared before they make the destination to go X country. If you have a mater degree in robotics then I'd not allow you to come here but in Japan you'd have better opportunities to find a job.

Islam values aren't fundamentally alien to Europe, but every citizen regardless of religion should conform to fit in the local hemisphere, if you have the need to have multiple wives then go for it I don't mind but If you insist that women must wear hijab and every boy should get circumcised then I'll say it's better you will leave. - in other words respect the locals and their values - it's you who have to make the first steps to change not the local majority. If you can't make it in this way then you have no place in Europe.

 

[IronSide]

It's all based on the workforce and the resources needed to fill certain jobs. Each country has different needs and migrants should be prepared before they make the destination to go X country. If you have a mater degree in robotics then I'd not allow you to come here but in Japan you'd have better opportunities to find a job.

Islam values aren't fundamentally alien to Europe, but every citizen regardless of religion should conform to fit in the local hemisphere, if you have the need to have multiple wives then go for it I don't mind but If you insist that women must wear hijab and every boy should get circumcised then I'll say it's better you will leave. - in other words respect the locals and their values - it's you who have to make the first steps to change not the local majority. If you can't make it in this way then you have no place in Europe.

I agree, personal freedom is preserved, and you don't enforce your views on others, that's the correct stance.

However, if Muslims outreproduce non-Muslims in Europe, which is a fear to some, then why would they confirm to the local laws of the previous majority ? local laws are an outcome of a consensus on certain issues by a majority, if that majority changed, wouldn't the local laws change ?

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

With the increase of migrations from the Near East, East Asia and Africa there's a growing number of European born people who has recent ancestors from different parts of the world.

What's the criteria to be considered European? Is it just a geographical location and means nothing more merely than certain countries lumped together by artificial means?

Do you consider the Balkans which was never really part of the Western hemisphere with it's muslim, Turkish occupied past the same way as a part of Europe as you consider UK or the Canary Islands which are much closer to the African continent than to Europe?

Here is my educated answer regarding your question: If you are a Stormfront member or other nonsense Internet ******** websites the answer is no, it can not be called European someone who is Muslim, Turk or from the Balkans.
But, if you have an innocent question, without been a member of what I mentioned above, then yes, history of Europe or Western Europe starts in ancient Greece (which was conquered by Turks, and many have brown or dark skin), continues with Rome, and at the present all these people of the continent have formed a union called European Union, so anyone who has lived for a thousand years in Europe, regardless the religion, or the area where they live, can with certainty be called Europeans

 

[JoeRobertson]

No! Roots are more important than place, where you were born.

 

[Georgewalley]

No! Roots are more important than place, where you were born.

I guess it's a matter of personal opinion. Some people prefer the local culture more so than from where their roots originated from.

 

[OkTex]

Depends upon whether European is defined in geographical or cultural terms?? If one adopts and works within prevailing culture and norms- yes- if reject norms and try to change culture- no!!

 

[Georgewalley]

Depends upon whether European is defined in geographical or cultural terms?? If one adopts and works within prevailing culture and norms- yes- if reject norms and try to change culture- no!!

European cultural terms are a recent phenomenon and mostly caused by globalization rather than self realization of people. During the 19th in the Balkans or East Europe most people had no clue if such country as Britain exist let alone knowing the cultural customs which makes them similar, but the Balkans had a strong connection with the Ottoman empire and there be even nations like Bosnia, Albania where the majority of population is still Muslim. While the average Londoner or Parisian today resembles more of an American city than their own country field due to immigration and globalization.
I don't think there were ever a homogeneous European culture or some artificial unity, rather nations that somehow tried to interact with more or less success but the forced attempt to homogenize and conceive the concept of Europe is as much a recent phenomenon and goes in line with globalization. First we lose our national sovereign, sooner or later the borders and nations will go vanish and immigration from all over the world starts to make a globalized, culturally homogeneous but genetically different or mixed group of people who won't think much of terms like race when their dad was AB and their mom is C. Values change and what we regard as important such as family, cultural values may remain but the footprink of nationalism, tribalism seems to be vanished completely in the "civilized world". The role of family has been changed with the acceptance gender equality which resulted women to chase the same dreams like men do. There seems to be both cons and pros in this New World. From a different aspect our leaders became our chieftain, while our tribal senses got replaced by football teams, television shows and political groups. We became more individualistic and island man as we cut off race and tradition which once was the main mark to make someone X but today we can be blacks, whites and be the same team while there may be some cultural association with color but most people don't refer themselves as white or black rather as human being who holds more values ie. education, class, household income than merely the outside mark by racial traits.

 

[OkTex]

If culture and society did not factor, where is the influx of N. Europeans headed for The Middle East... as the “cradle of Civilization” there is abundant wealth and resources available there... yet Middle Easterners are flocking to a Europe culturalized and developed by “Europeans”-define as you will. What reason, other than to take advantage of an opportunity developed by a more developed society, would this be true?