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Thread: T Haplogroup Caucasus

  1. #26
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T -Y3781

    Ethnic group
    South caucasus-Persian
    Country: Canada-Quebec



    Thank you for your reply.
    What is your opinion on the origin of haplo T in the caucasus and Iranian plateau?
    From which region in the world did this haplogroup migrate to the middle-east?Why is it so widespread in low pourcentages comparing to other haplogroups?I will be grateful if you can share your knowledge.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamed View Post
    Thank you for your reply.
    What is your opinion on the origin of haplo T in the caucasus and Iranian plateau?
    From which region in the world did this haplogroup migrate to the middle-east?Why is it so widespread in low pourcentages comparing to other haplogroups?I will be grateful if you can share your knowledge.
    Haplogroup T in Caucasus and Iranian Plateau have diverse origins because there are several different branches. I recommend you first take a deep look into the link I provided you. You should find some answers and new questions.

    Mostly from somewhere around the Black Sea where most probably are found the roots of some ancient T branches like T1a1a-L208.

    I answered the third question in my last post, the high movility nature could be a major factor. This also is so graphic in the last link I provided you.

    Are you participating in the Haplogroup T project ? https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    And you uploaded your results to YFull? https://www.yfull.com/tree/T/

  3. #28
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    T Haplogroup Caucasus

    I understand why Hamed thinks that something really unpleasant must have happened to Y T.
    What caused the low percentages of T remain an unresolved Mystery, regardless of how widespread it is.
    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I understand why Hamed thinks that something really unpleasant must have happened to Y T.
    What caused the low percentages of T is a Mystery, regardless of how widespread it is.
    Early isolation, genocide, disease, natural disaster (Atlantis lol), low sperm count??, Women didn’t find them attractive (I don’t think so !!!), famine, ..... all Speculations.
    I dont think so. That some lineage Exploided demographically at a relatively recent time, doesn't mean that others that didn't experienced this demographic explosion are the opposite.

    Atlantis or Isolation are the most serious possibilities among those you posted and IF real, only would be affected a unique branch of all T branches of a specific time period. So, I think the high movility is the best answer with our knowledge.

    Anyway, If you take a look into the link I have posted, you can see several significant demographic explosions on different T lineages.

    You have CTS6507 (4500 yBP) with lots of living son branches. Being identified members: Zoroastrian Mobeds, several Royal and Noble Houses of the Persian Gulf and maybe a Jewish-original branch.

  5. #30
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    I dont think so. That some lineage Exploided demographically at a relatively recent time, doesn't mean that others that didn't experienced this demographic explosion are the opposite.

    Atlantis or Isolation are the most serious possibilities among those you posted and IF real, only would be affected a unique branch of all T branches of a specific time period. So, I think the high movility is the best answer with our knowledge.
    All 3 branches suffers by low % if I understood correctly.
    If that’s the case High mobility could apply to 1 Branch, but no to all. It would be an improbable Coincidence.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    All 3 branches suffers by low % if I understood correctly.
    If that’s the case High mobility could apply to 1 Branch, but no to all. It would be an improbable Coincidence.
    When you share ancestor there is no need of mere coincidence. Haplogroup T is found at the root of the Neolithic life-style. So is not strange this extremely high movility since very old times.

    Two extremely early splitted branches like T1b and T1a are found among the earliest Neolithic populations of West Eurasia. Anyway, only T1a shows this high movility.

  7. #32
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    T Haplogroup Caucasus

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    I dont think so. That some lineage Exploided demographically at a relatively recent time, doesn't mean that others that didn't experienced this demographic explosion are the opposite.

    Atlantis or Isolation are the most serious possibilities among those you posted and IF real, only would be affected a unique branch of all T branches of a specific time period. So, I think the high movility is the best answer with our knowledge.

    Anyway, If you take a look into the link I have posted, you can see several significant demographic explosions on different T lineages.

    You have CTS6507 (4500 yBP) with lots of living son branches. Being identified members: Zoroastrian Mobeds, several Royal Houses of the Persian Gulf and maybe a Jewish-original branch.
    I’m actually Negative for CTS6507 (red on FTDNA)

    I’m Z19945 ( negative for CTS1848 ) same as Sile.

    IMG_8724.JPG

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I’m actually Negative for CTS6507 (red on FTDNA)

    I’m Z19945 ( negative for CTS1848 ) same as Sile.
    Yes, I know. I mean "you have in the tree". Excuse me the confusion.

  9. #34
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    T Haplogroup Caucasus

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    Yes, I know. I mean "you have in the tree". Excuse me the confusion.
    By looking at the FTDNA tree any relation that CTS6507 people have with Z19945 is Remote at best.

    IMG_8725.JPG

  10. #35
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    T Haplogroup Caucasus

    Wow those are a lot of Mutations.
    It gets more complicated all the time. :)

  11. #36
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
    Italian
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    T Haplogroup Caucasus

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    When you share ancestor there is no need of mere coincidence. Haplogroup T is found at the root of the Neolithic life-style. So is not strange this extremely high movility since very old times.

    Two extremely early splitted branches like T1b and T1a are found among the earliest Neolithic populations of West Eurasia. Anyway, only T1a shows this high movility.
    Thank you for the Clear Explanation.
    It all makes sense now. :)

    Also I think that before I misinterpreted “You have”, you probably meant to say “We have, or There is, Haplo.... ” as a general way to make a point.
    (“You have Haplo... “ (4500 yBP) with lots of living son branches...)
    Sorry for the misunderstanding.

  12. #37
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    I dont think so. That some lineage Exploided demographically at a relatively recent time, doesn't mean that others that didn't experienced this demographic explosion are the opposite.
    Atlantis or Isolation are the most serious possibilities among those you posted and IF real, only would be affected a unique branch of all T branches of a specific time period. So, I think the high movility is the best answer with our knowledge.
    Anyway, If you take a look into the link I have posted, you can see several significant demographic explosions on different T lineages.
    You have CTS6507 (4500 yBP) with lots of living son branches. Being identified members: Zoroastrian Mobeds, several Royal and Noble Houses of the Persian Gulf and maybe a Jewish-original branch.
    Zorastrian began in Turkmenistan
    https://zoroastrians.net/2010/08/25/...-turkmenistan/
    .
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/vikt...117-30zd7.html
    .
    Any Zoroastrian in Persia or elsewhere are migrations.
    .
    Gonur Tepe is the actual area of Zoroastrian.......was there not a T1a found there from a recent paper?
    .
    https://www.heritageinstitute.com/zo...merv/gonur.htm
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  13. #38
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    All 3 branches suffers by low % if I understood correctly.
    If that’s the case High mobility could apply to 1 Branch, but no to all. It would be an improbable Coincidence.
    It would mostly mean that T was a hunter group and not farmers or herders initially

  14. #39
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    By looking at the FTDNA tree any relation that CTS6507 people have with Z19945 is Remote at best.

    IMG_8725.JPG
    impossible......we are part of the T1a2 branch and CTS6507 is part of the T1a1 branch ..........they are as different as R1b is to R1a

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    [QUOTE=Alpenjager;543872]Haplogroup T in Caucasus and Iranian Plateau have diverse origins because there are several different branches. I recommend you first take a deep look into the link I provided you. You should find some answers and new questions.

    Mostly from somewhere around the Black Sea where most probably are found the roots of some ancient T branches like T1a1a-L208.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    I answered the third question in my last post, the high movility nature could be a major factor. This also is so graphic in the last link I provided you.

    Are you participating in the Haplogroup T project ? https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    And you uploaded your results to YFull?


    In the https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults, I am listed as "unmatched'. Alpenjager, there is a guy from Czech republic he has many numbers who fit mine...

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    Some people can tell on the basis of the matched numbers how many years ago there was a commonly ancestor.. Is here someone who can have a look and guess how many years ago I had a commonly ancestor with the guy from Czech Republic, thank you.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    Well Hamed, are you participating in YFull? Do you know which is your branch downstream of Y3781?

    Your teacher doesn't seems know so much about T-M184 haplogroup but anyway Im glad to find some interest. There is nothing about a mass murderer of T people more than suffered by other lineages. Probably the high movility nature of T lineages is the cause this lineage have not been strongly fixed in a specific geographical place.

    There are several T branches unrelated in recent times between them inhabiting close regions.
    Actually we don't know of any study that find T1a-M70 individuals in the Middle East in Prehistoric times not even in Anatolian nor Caucasus soil. This should mean something after all.

    If do you want to make a strong theory, I recommend to you to take a look into my T-M184 phylogenetic tree work here:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-M184_tree.png


    About Dravidians: Haplogroup T among them is understudied but anyway is mostly an off shot of a northern migration into South Asia and perhaps other minor migrations like seafearers. Most of Dravidian populations lack of T-M184 lineages.
    I didnt know the 'tree' was youre work, very very nice done!

  18. #43
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    T -Y3781

    Ethnic group
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Alpenjager,today i joined the T project.
    I have a question for you since you asked me about my downstream of y3781.
    There are 4 downstreams from that tree you sent me its link.I was tested negative for all of them: y3758 y3782 y9102 and y21017.
    Hence on that tree,I correspond no further than y3781 which is 8500 ybp.
    So what does that mean ? How can I test for further snps which are closer in time?
    Btw if that tree is your work, I would like to congratulate and thank you for such an amazing work.

  19. #44
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    Thanks to both of you. I will keep updating the tree periodically.

    Hamed, to go downstream on the tree you should order YElite(best choice data-price): https://www.fullgenomes.com/purchases/2/? or BigY https://www.familytreedna.com/group-...gCart?pid=4383 / https://www.familytreedna.com/group-...-Haplogroup-K2


    Which is your tribal and ethnic origin on your direct paternal line? I will see if I can add you to the tree.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamed View Post
    Alpenjager,today i joined the T project.
    I have a question for you since you asked me about my downstream of y3781.
    There are 4 downstreams from that tree you sent me its link.I was tested negative for all of them: y3758 y3782 y9102 and y21017.
    Hence on that tree,I correspond no further than y3781 which is 8500 ybp.
    So what does that mean ? How can I test for further snps which are closer in time?
    Btw if that tree is your work, I would like to congratulate and thank you for such an amazing work.
    You are negative for Y3824- that is equivalent to Y3858. But you have NO CALL for Y21017 and equivalent SNPs. So, you still dont know if you are positive or not for this last SNP. There are good chances that you belong to FGC65011.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...x?section=ysnp Your Y21017 appear as "Y21017*" not "-" nor "+".

  21. #46
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T -Y3781

    Ethnic group
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks.
    About my tribal or ethnic origin : I was born in Iran.My grandfather was born in Baku city of Azerbaijan.His father was from North Caucasus in the Daghestani region.

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    Hamed, I find your Elamite theory absolutely fascinating. My haplotype is T as well. My great-grandfathers were Kurds who migrated from Iran to South Caucasus in 16th century.

  23. #48
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamed View Post
    Thanks.
    About my tribal or ethnic origin : I was born in Iran.My grandfather was born in Baku city of Azerbaijan.His father was from North Caucasus in the Daghestani region.
    great
    your line could even be from kazaks as many T people are found there .............6% of T ydna marker found in Altai area of Kazakhstan
    .

  24. #49
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Thanks Caucasus for sharing.Thats fascinating.
    How where you able to track your ancestors back to 16th century to Kurdistan as many records after 18th century in Iran are completly destroyed?
    Also which part of south caucasus you are from?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Dear Alpenger, you sent a link about the names and countries of Haplo T which was very usefull.
    In arabic I found an important name.It was sharif Maher Rashwan Al-Jamazi Al-Husayni.
    This is a very prominant tribe in Egypt and Saoudi Arabia which have a direct paternal Genealogy all the way to the prophet Muhammad who also was a direct descendant of Ismael and Abraham.Their geneology is authenticated by arab genealogy scholars.
    If that is so,this gives us more fascinating information about haplo T.Ishmael must have had the same dna as his brother Isaac and the children of Israel.
    Could the tribe of Israel be haplo T? Would the reason why Haplo T beeing so scattered in low pourcentages be because the children of Israel where massacred and scattered around the world as predicted in the Bible?
    What do you guys think?

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