T Haplogroup Caucasus

[Suleyman]

Hello,

My nephew from the fatherside did the paternal dna test and got T haplogroup as result. We are from Chechnya, the most common haplogroup in Chechnya is J1, J2. Does someone know how the T haplogroup got in the North Caucasusus? Of did it spread from the Caucasus? I saw that there were people with a ( how do you say it ) similar ( mutation ) dna code from Libya and Portugal.. Could it be from the Phoenicians or Hourrites? I myself did the dna test and waiting for my results but im for 99 % sure that I will have the same dna code as him.

[Sile]

Hello,
My nephew from the fatherside did the paternal dna test and got T haplogroup as result. We are from Chechnya, the most common haplogroup in Chechnya is J1, J2. Does someone know how the T haplogroup got in the North Caucasusus? Of did it spread from the Caucasus? I saw that there were people with a ( how do you say it ) similar ( mutation ) dna code from Libya and Portugal.. Could it be from the Phoenicians or Hourrites? I myself did the dna test and waiting for my results but im for 99 % sure that I will have the same dna code as him.

one main way is via kazakstan then to dagestan
many T found in this 2017 paper


.
C3 - 41%
R1a - 9%
O3 - 6%
T - 6%

T haplogroup 4th most % found in Kazaks

[Suleyman]

The thing is, we are an isolated mountain folk with 'isolated' i mean we have very strict rules, we can mary only each other.. it is tabo to mix with other ethnicities.. We have to know the names till the 7th male ancestor.. I dont think we got it from Kazakhstan, bacause our family would know about it ...It has to be from way way back..Our (mutation) shows that its originated some 7500 years ago.. I was thinking maybe from the Hitto-Phoenicians who migrated after the fall of the Hurri-Urartu kingdom to Caucasus? But still the question is I didn't find in the Chechen DNA project anyone else with a T haplogroup..

[Sile]

The thing is, we are an isolated mountain folk with 'isolated' i mean we have very strict rules, we can mary only each other.. it is tabo to mix with other ethnicities.. We have to know the names till the 7th male ancestor.. I dont think we got it from Kazakhstan, bacause our family would know about it ...It has to be from way way back..Our (mutation) shows that its originated some 7500 years ago.. I was thinking maybe from the Hitto-Phoenicians who migrated after the fall of the Hurri-Urartu kingdom to Caucasus? But still the question is I didn't find in the Chechen DNA project anyone else with a T haplogroup..

your "rules" are thousands upon thousands of years younger than the T haplogroup , they do not count.............there was no rules or religion or even towns/villages ............there was hunters, farmers when T went into the north caucasus

like all other haplogroups than have the marker K-M9 .........they all mostly like began around south central asia

every T and L haplogroup person has to have this mutations Haplogroup LT or L298/P326, also known as K1 (and previously as Haplogroup K2), there are actually 30 SNPs for LT haplogroup

[Suleyman]

your "rules" are thousands upon thousands of years younger than the T haplogroup , they do not count.............there was no rules or religion or even towns/villages ............there was hunters, farmers when T went into the north caucasus

like all other haplogroups than have the marker K-M9 .........they all mostly like began around south central asia

every T and L haplogroup person has to have this mutations Haplogroup LT or L298/P326, also known as K1 (and previously as Haplogroup K2), there are actually 30 SNPs for LT haplogroup

Sile, on yfull.com im listed with the haplogroup T- Y22559, with me there is an other guy with the same T-Y22559. Does this makes that this guy is a far 'family' member a descent from the same ancestor or could it just be a coincidence?

[Sile]

Sile, on yfull.com im listed with the haplogroup T- Y22559, with me there is an other guy with the same T-Y22559. Does this makes that this guy is a far 'family' member a descent from the same ancestor or could it just be a coincidence?

what does it state for matches in your account in Yfull ...the SNP matches and the STR matches........there are also 3 tabs in each section

you should have something like this if you match

[Alpenjager]

Which is your Tribe?

Your closest know match is 7400 ybp. This is a lot to start any speculation. You should talk with the Moravian individual kit 129339 in the FTDNA T Project and try to convince him to upload to YFull. Also one of the Jewish cluster.

You can see here your branch: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-M184_tree.png

[Suleyman]

Sile, I will registrate on that site and have a better closer look.. thank you for the information

[Suleyman]

Alpenjager,

My tribe is called " Nash'ho ", it is seen if not the oldest, as one of the oldest tribes in Chechnya.. It is even said that all the Chechens are originated from my tribe.. but being member of this old tribe and having haplogroup T is even stranger if 60-70 % of the Chechens have J1,J2.. And the Phylogenetic T-M184 tree I see the T-Y22559 and further some clusters ( Iberia, South Moravia, Syria, East Libia and Askhn. Jews), what does those clusters mean? Im asking maybe to many questions but it is of the interest in the human history.

[Alpenjager]

Alpenjager,

My tribe is called " Nash'ho ", it is seen if not the oldest, as one of the oldest tribes in Chechnya.. It is even said that all the Chechens are originated from my tribe.. but being member of this old tribe and having haplogroup T is even stranger if 60-70 % of the Chechens have J1,J2.. And the Phylogenetic T-M184 tree I see the T-Y22559 and further some clusters ( Iberia, South Moravia, Syria, East Libia and Askhn. Jews), what does those clusters mean? Im asking maybe to many questions but it is of the interest in the human history.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нашхой

We don't know this 60-70% of J1 and J2 to which tribes belong. This could be like with Somalis, when they started testing random Somalis in European countries, they found that 70-80% belong to E1b but when they started to sample region by region and tribe by tribe, they start to found large Clans and Regions to belong mostly to T1a. Until now that is know that the most indisputable descendants of the father of all Somalis (The Dir Clan) belongs virtually 100% to T1a.

The scientific community need to do most representative sampling in further studies.

[Abdirahman]

About the Samaale, even Hawyie claim they are descendant of him, according to the tradition Samaale came from Arabia and married a local woman, so it reasonable to assume he was T1a, in other hand Hawyie are mostly E1b which came from Pre- Nubia .


Back to the topic most tribes usually contain different haplogroups, which proves that most tribes are confederation, ibn khaldun father of Sociology said that "tribes are collation" so challenged the traditional view that was in spread in Arabia where all tribes used to claim descendant of Qahtan or Adnan or to lesser extant remnant of ancient Arabs. The same apply to your tribe, the haplgrouop are mostly before the formation modern lineages, so it is logical for a tribe to contain different haplogroups.

[Suleyman]

13 22 14 10 15-16 11 12 10 13 14 30 this my how do you call it SNR, SNP?

[Sile]

13 22 14 10 15-16 11 12 10 13 14 30 this my how do you call it SNR, SNP?

they are STR

mine are

13 22 13 10 13-13 11 12 11 14 13 30

but I tested 111 of them

[Caucasus]

Suleyman, I am originally from Azerbaijan. I also got T haplogroup result. I certainly think it originated from Zagros Mountains.

[Salento]

Suleyman, I am originally from Azerbaijan. I also got T haplogroup result. I certainly think it originated from Zagros Mountains.

Do you know your subclade (subgroup)?
Mine is CTS8862, as of now.
Funny, just got un update, I’m actually Z19945. (Negative for CTS1848).

[Alpenjager]

Suleyman, I am originally from Azerbaijan. I also got T haplogroup result. I certainly think it originated from Zagros Mountains.

Actually, there are several Neolithic and Mesolithic samples from around Zagros and there is not found any T sample yet. So it doesnt seems like this is the place of origin. Also the most basal branches are not found close to Zagros but to Europe, Caucasus and Himalayas. Then to Mediterranean Sea.So it seems like T inhabited some northern lands, perhaps around Black Sea and then some migrated to the south in multiple waves.

[Caucasus]

I have downloaded my raw data from 23andme.com with column heads- rsid, chromosome, position, genotype I have no clue about interpreting this data further. Can I extract my subclade from this data or do I need to do anything else to get it?

[Alpenjager]

I have downloaded my raw data from 23andme.com with column heads- rsid, chromosome, position, genotype I have no clue about interpreting this data further. Can I extract my subclade from this data or do I need to do anything else to get it?

23andMe doesn't give you more than two or three SNPs of interest. So, you are able to know if L208 or L131 at most.

You should think to do further testing YElite https://www.fullgenomes.com/purchases/2/? or Y12+BigY in https://www.familytreedna.com/

Highly recomended these options.

Or you can do a less informative test: https://www.yseq.net/product_info.ph...afa86235a73be4

[Suleyman]

do you know your subclade (subgroup)?
Mine is cts8862, as of now.
Funny, just got un update, i’m actually z19945. (negative for cts1848).

y-22559 ...

[Suleyman]

CTS11451 i think this is right

[Hamed]

Hello.My grandfather was from north caucasus.He moved to Iran when his father was killed by bolsheviks.My haplogroup is also T. (Y3781). One of my teachers at University has a theory about origins of T in the caucasus.I will share it with you,mind you its only a theory.Haplo T is very small and widespread.Perhaps this dna group suffered from mass killing due to war with a bigger nation or perhaps they suffered drought.Haplo T and J lived mainly in the middle east and Iranian plateau.Which group of people in the Iranian plateau was completly destroyed? The answer is the Elamites.The Assyrian kings bragged about how they destroyed the elamites seed and civilization.The assyrians where surely haplogroup J1.Today scientists confirm a strong relationship between elamite language and culture and Dravidian language and culture.As you are aware,many of todays Haplo T are located in dravidian people of India.Sargon the king of Assyria destroyed the Elamite Empire and killed every one he could find.However many escaped North through the safest route: the zagros mountains.Today you will find many haplo T scattered in the zagros mountain and the caucasus mountains.

[Sile]

Hello.My grandfather was from north caucasus.He moved to Iran when his father was killed by bolsheviks.My haplogroup is also T. (Y3781). One of my teachers at University has a theory about origins of T in the caucasus.I will share it with you,mind you its only a theory.Haplo T is very small and widespread.Perhaps this dna group suffered from mass killing due to war with a bigger nation or perhaps they suffered drought.Haplo T and J lived mainly in the middle east and Iranian plateau.Which group of people in the Iranian plateau was completly destroyed? The answer is the Elamites.The Assyrian kings bragged about how they destroyed the elamites seed and civilization.The assyrians where surely haplogroup J1.Today scientists confirm a strong relationship between elamite language and culture and Dravidian language and culture.As you are aware,many of todays Haplo T are located in dravidian people of India.Sargon the king of Assyria destroyed the Elamite Empire and killed every one he could find.However many escaped North through the safest route: the zagros mountains.Today you will find many haplo T scattered in the zagros mountain and the caucasus mountains.

Thanks
My theory is that it began as part of the Dahae confedeation of people.....one group heading north in kazaks and other south along the caspian sea via modern gilman province through the armenian plateau and part of the mitanni/Urart group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurro-Urartian_languages
.
And later a move through Laz and the elamites
.
with an ancient T1a3 found in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogdia
It would make sense that between Pamir and the caspian sea is its origin.
.
Btw , I am T1a2-Z19945

[Hamed]

Mr Sile,Very Interesting.Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
However, nothern Iranian where Aryans( haplo R-1a).Dahae people built the parthian empire.The great King Cyrus mentionned they where Aryans (haplo R)

[Alpenjager]

Mr Sile,Very Interesting.Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
However, nothern Iranian where Aryans( haplo R-1a).Dahae people built the parthian empire.The great King Cyrus mentionned they where Aryans (haplo R)

According to the last Ancient DNA data, there is no proof about something like Aryans = R1a. There are lots of Haplogroups in the root of the Indoeuropean populations (like L and J).

[Alpenjager]

Hello.My grandfather was from north caucasus.He moved to Iran when his father was killed by bolsheviks.My haplogroup is also T. (Y3781). One of my teachers at University has a theory about origins of T in the caucasus.I will share it with you,mind you its only a theory.Haplo T is very small and widespread.Perhaps this dna group suffered from mass killing due to war with a bigger nation or perhaps they suffered drought.Haplo T and J lived mainly in the middle east and Iranian plateau.Which group of people in the Iranian plateau was completly destroyed? The answer is the Elamites.The Assyrian kings bragged about how they destroyed the elamites seed and civilization.The assyrians where surely haplogroup J1.Today scientists confirm a strong relationship between elamite language and culture and Dravidian language and culture.As you are aware,many of todays Haplo T are located in dravidian people of India.Sargon the king of Assyria destroyed the Elamite Empire and killed every one he could find.However many escaped North through the safest route: the zagros mountains.Today you will find many haplo T scattered in the zagros mountain and the caucasus mountains.

Well Hamed, are you participating in YFull? Do you know which is your branch downstream of Y3781?

Your teacher doesn't seems know so much about T-M184 haplogroup but anyway Im glad to find some interest. There is nothing about a mass murderer of T people more than suffered by other lineages. Probably the high movility nature of T lineages is the cause this lineage have not been strongly fixed in a specific geographical place.

There are several T branches unrelated in recent times between them inhabiting close regions.
Actually we don't know of any study that find T1a-M70 individuals in the Middle East in Prehistoric times not even in Anatolian nor Caucasus soil. This should mean something after all.

If do you want to make a strong theory, I recommend to you to take a look into my T-M184 phylogenetic tree work here:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-M184_tree.png


About Dravidians: Haplogroup T among them is understudied but anyway is mostly an off shot of a northern migration into South Asia and perhaps other minor migrations like seafearers. Most of Dravidian populations lack of T-M184 lineages.