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Thread: R1b subclade table based on 59K FtDNA samples

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    R1b subclade table based on 59K FtDNA samples

    Code:
    ######################   P312   U106   L151    L51  Z2103    L23 PF7562   M269    V88  PH155    R1b    R1a     R1     R2      R  R1b-* !ISOGG  other   all
               Afghanistan   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00  19.51   2.44   0.00   2.44   0.00   0.00  75.61    41
                   Albania   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.00  10.00   0.00   2.00   0.00   4.00   0.00   0.00   0.00  18.00   4.00  78.00    50
                   Algeria   1.32   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   4.64   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.66   0.00   0.00   0.66   5.96   0.00  92.72   151
                   Armenia   0.78   0.00   0.00   0.00   4.69   5.21   0.26   8.85   0.00   0.00   0.52   3.39   0.00   0.26   0.00  22.66   2.34  73.70   384
                   Austria   3.92   1.96   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   9.80   0.00   0.00   0.00  18.14   0.00   0.00   0.00  19.61   3.92  62.25   204
                Azerbaijan   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   1.79   0.00   1.79  14.29   0.00   0.00   0.89   7.14   1.79   0.00   0.00  18.75   0.00  72.32   112
                   Bahrain   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.56   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.56   0.00   5.06   0.00   0.56   0.00   1.69   0.56  92.70   178
                   Belarus   2.27   0.91   0.00   0.00   0.23   0.00   0.45   2.72   0.00   0.00   0.00  24.72   0.23   0.45   0.00   9.07   2.49  65.53   441
                   Belgium  11.99   8.61   1.12   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00  28.46   0.00   0.00   0.00   4.49   0.00   0.00   0.00  56.93   6.74  38.58   267
    Bosnia and Herzegovina   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   3.19   0.00   0.00   0.00  34.04   0.00   0.00   0.00   4.26   1.06  61.70    94
                    Brazil   8.82   1.47   1.47   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00  23.53   0.00   0.00   0.00   4.41   0.00   0.00   0.00  39.71   4.41  55.88    68
                  Bulgaria   2.53   0.63   0.00   0.00   3.48   0.63   0.32   3.80   0.00   0.00   0.32  11.71   0.00   0.00   0.00  13.29   1.58  75.00   316
                    Canada   7.78   1.67   0.00   0.00   0.56   0.00   0.00  41.11   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.78   0.00   0.00   0.00  57.22   6.11  40.00   180
                     China   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   1.25   1.25   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00  97.50    80
                   Croatia   0.98   0.98   0.98   0.98   0.98   0.98   0.00   3.92   0.00   0.00   0.00  17.65   0.00   0.00   0.00   9.80   0.00  72.55   102
            Czech Republic   5.26   3.95   0.00   0.00   0.88   0.00   0.00   5.70   0.00   0.00   0.00  30.70   0.88   0.00   0.00  19.74   3.95  48.68   228
                   Denmark   4.60   7.11   0.42   0.00   0.00   0.21   0.00  17.36   0.00   0.00   0.42  10.67   0.63   0.00   0.00  33.47   3.35  55.23   478
                     Egypt   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   1.67   0.00   0.00   0.56   1.11   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.22   0.00  96.67   180
                   England   9.94   9.40   0.31   0.07   0.13   0.07   0.05  22.99   0.02   0.00   0.59   4.80   0.23   0.02   0.02  51.73   8.17  43.21  6107
                   Estonia   1.56   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   7.81   0.00   0.00   0.00  26.56   0.00   0.00   0.00  12.50   3.12  60.94    64
                   Finland   0.70   0.81   0.04   0.00   0.04   0.00   0.00   1.75   0.00   0.00   0.00   5.19   0.04   0.00   0.00   4.07   0.74  90.70  2851
                    France  16.74   2.43   0.49   0.00   0.27   0.32   0.00  34.88   0.05   0.00   0.49   2.16   0.11   0.00   0.00  61.50   5.83  36.23  1852
                   Georgia   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.88   0.00   0.00   6.58   0.00   0.00   0.44   4.61   0.22   0.44   0.00   8.11   0.22  86.62   456
                   Germany   6.07   6.91   0.32   0.06   0.32   0.17   0.00  13.59   0.03   0.00   0.14  11.63   0.32   0.00   0.00  33.00   5.38  55.06  3458
                    Greece   0.76   0.19   0.00   0.00   0.96   0.96   0.00  12.43   0.19   0.00   0.38   4.78   0.38   0.38   0.38  16.44   0.57  77.63   523
                   Hungary   2.87   2.87   0.15   0.30   0.60   0.45   0.00   8.45   0.15   0.00   0.00  22.93   0.45   0.15   0.00  17.04   1.21  59.43   663
                     India   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.28   0.28   0.00   1.13   0.00   0.28   0.28  33.90   0.56  11.30   0.85   2.26   0.00  51.13   354
                      Iran   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.56   2.82   0.00   3.39   0.00   0.00   0.56   6.78   0.00   4.52   0.00   7.91   0.56  80.79   177
                      Iraq   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.62   0.10   0.21   3.91   0.00   0.00   0.51   5.14   0.41   0.82   0.00   5.76   0.41  87.86   972
                   Ireland  21.18   2.45   0.21   0.08   0.07   0.03   0.02  40.49   0.00   0.00   0.39   2.37   0.97   0.08   0.00  75.04  10.11  21.54  6113
                     Italy   6.91   1.21   0.07   0.28   1.64   0.50   0.36  12.75   0.00   0.07   0.71   3.85   0.36   0.07   0.00  27.28   2.78  68.45  1404
                     Japan   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00 100.00    86
                    Jordan   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.93   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.93   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.93   0.00  98.15   108
                Kazakhstan   0.26   0.26   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.52   0.00   1.82   0.00   0.00   0.52  15.32   1.56   0.78   1.04   4.68   1.30  76.62   385
                    Kuwait   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.59   0.00   0.00   0.79   0.20   0.00   0.00   6.48   0.20   0.20   0.00   1.96   0.39  91.16   509
                Kyrgyzstan   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   1.96   0.00   0.00   1.96  52.94   0.00   0.00   0.00   3.92   0.00  43.14    51
                    Latvia   1.57   1.57   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   6.30   0.00   0.00   0.00  18.90   0.79   0.79   0.00  10.24   0.79  69.29   127
                   Lebanon   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   3.70   0.00   0.00   1.85   0.00   0.00   0.00   1.85   0.62   0.00   0.00   5.56   0.00  91.98   162
                     Libya   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   1.18   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.59   0.59   0.59   0.00   1.18   0.00  97.04   169
                 Lithuania   0.88   1.77   0.00   0.00   0.53   0.00   0.00   3.53   0.00   0.00   0.00  24.56   1.24   0.53   0.00   8.13   1.41  65.55   566
                    Mexico  11.21   1.40   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.47  18.69   0.00   0.00   0.93   0.93   0.00   0.00   0.00  37.38   4.67  61.68   214
                   Moldova   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   8.70   0.00   0.00   0.00  13.04   0.00   2.17   0.00  10.87   2.17  73.91    46
                   Morocco   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.97   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.97   0.00  97.03   101
               Netherlands   7.35  10.19   0.90   0.15   0.15   0.00   0.00  20.84   0.15   0.00   0.60   3.60   0.15   0.00   0.00  44.53   4.20  51.72   667
          Northern Ireland  23.20   2.21   0.55   0.00   0.18   0.00   0.00  25.78   0.00   0.00   0.18   4.24   0.92   0.00   0.00  65.01  12.89  29.83   543
                    Norway   4.69   4.00   0.13   0.06   0.19   0.00   0.00  13.33   0.00   0.00   0.06  23.40   0.25   0.00   0.00  26.03   3.57  50.31  1598
                      Oman   0.00   1.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   4.00   0.00   1.00   0.00   1.00   0.00  94.00   100
                  Pakistan   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   4.49   0.00   0.00   1.12  32.58   0.00   3.37   0.00   5.62   0.00  58.43    89
     Palestinian Territory   0.93   0.00   0.00   0.93   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.78   0.93   0.00   0.93   1.85   0.00   0.00   0.00   6.48   0.00  91.67   108
               Philippines   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   1.59   1.59  98.41    63
                    Poland   1.49   1.71   0.09   0.04   0.47   0.21   0.00   5.93   0.04   0.00   0.04  45.42   0.17   0.17   0.00  12.37   2.35  41.88  2345
                  Portugal  13.03   1.06   0.15   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00  28.94   0.15   0.00   0.76   3.03   0.61   0.15   0.00  48.33   4.24  47.88   660
               Puerto Rico  22.39   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00  26.87   0.00   0.00   0.00   1.49   0.00   0.00   0.00  52.24   2.99  46.27    67
                     Qatar   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.82   0.00   0.00   0.00   7.79   0.00   0.41   0.82   1.64   0.82  89.34   244
                   Romania   2.53   1.01   0.00   0.00   1.52   0.00   0.51   4.04   0.00   0.00   0.51  11.62   0.00   0.00   0.00  11.11   1.01  77.27   198
        Russian Federation   0.42   0.57   0.00   0.00   0.77   0.11   0.00   3.03   0.04   0.00   0.34  31.77   0.57   0.08   0.00   6.21   0.92  61.36  2609
              Saudi Arabia   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.11   0.04   0.04   0.54   0.32   0.00   0.32   2.90   0.11   0.22   0.07   1.68   0.32  95.02  2790
                  Scotland  15.20   3.70   0.23   0.02   0.08   0.04   0.00  37.61   0.00   0.00   0.45   5.16   0.41   0.02   0.00  68.08  10.75  26.32  4863
                    Serbia   0.00   1.06   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   3.19   0.00   0.00   0.00  27.66   0.00   0.00   0.00   5.32   1.06  67.02    94
                  Slovakia   0.47   2.79   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   4.65   0.00   0.00   0.00  38.14   0.00   0.47   0.00   9.77   1.86  51.63   215
                  Slovenia   1.41   5.63   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   7.04   0.00   0.00   0.00  43.66   0.00   0.00   0.00  14.08   0.00  42.25    71
                     Spain  14.58   0.97   0.24   0.12   0.30   0.36   0.00  34.36   0.00   0.00   0.60   2.12   0.30   0.00   0.06  54.14   2.60  43.38  1653
                     Sudan   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.12   1.59   0.00   1.59   0.53   0.53   0.00   0.53   5.29   0.00  93.12   189
                    Sweden   4.24   5.36   0.05   0.05   0.16   0.11   0.00   9.23   0.00   0.00   0.05  15.24   0.05   0.00   0.00  24.30   5.04  60.41  1864
               Switzerland   7.21   5.61   0.20   0.40   0.20   0.40   0.00  13.43   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.61   0.00   0.20   0.00  33.27   5.81  63.93   499
      Syrian Arab Republic   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   3.42   0.00   0.00   0.85   4.27   0.00   1.71   0.85   4.27   0.00  88.89   117
                   Tunisia   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.21   0.00   0.00   0.00   2.94   0.00   0.74   0.00   2.21   0.00  94.12   136
                    Turkey   1.01   0.00   0.00   0.17   3.36   2.86   0.34   5.71   0.00   0.17   0.00   5.21   0.17   1.51   0.00  14.29   0.67  78.82   595
                   Ukraine   0.91   1.11   0.00   0.00   0.30   0.10   0.20   2.72   0.20   0.00   0.30  25.98   0.30   0.30   0.00   7.15   1.31  66.26   993
      United Arab Emirates   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.20   0.20   0.00   2.04   0.00   0.00   0.00   9.18   0.82   0.82   0.20   2.65   0.20  86.33   490
            United Kingdom  10.93   7.90   0.04   0.16   0.16   0.08   0.04  26.45   0.04   0.00   0.47   4.60   0.39   0.00   0.00  52.59   6.33  42.41  2544
             United States  11.56   6.63   0.13   0.32   0.19   0.00   0.06  25.27   0.00   0.00   0.06   4.80   0.32   0.00   0.00  57.23  13.01  37.65  1583
                Uzbekistan   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   3.23   4.84   1.61   3.23   0.00   6.45   3.23  83.87    62
                     Wales  19.80   4.04   0.40   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00  23.43   0.00   0.00   0.81   1.62   0.00   0.00   0.00  58.38   9.90  40.00   495
                     Yemen   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.63   0.00   0.00   0.00   3.46   0.00   0.31   0.00   0.63   0.00  95.60   318
                       ALL   7.95   3.39   0.16   0.06   0.35   0.18   0.05  17.92   0.05   0.01   0.33   9.91   0.36   0.21   0.03  35.13   5.01  54.03 60539
    Only listing countries with more than 40 samples.

    Edit: It looks like FtDNA has a lot of people who used older tests of low quality who report as M269.

    The R1b-* row lists the total of all R1b subclades for the given country.

    Edit: Fixed a few minor SNP conversion errors.
    Edit: Added another 1000 samples.
    Last edited by Expredel; 25-04-18 at 01:55.

  2. #2
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    Sorry if this question is too dumb but bear with me here. If you look at a value for example England under M269 of 22.99, is that the terminal SNP of those individuals? Does it include individuals with P312 and U106 (both of which are downstream of M269)? Or is it excluding positives for downstream subclades?
    R1b-* is really helpful as it's meaning is clear. Thanks for the information as I was searching for it for a few days!

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    It's my understanding that there's more M269 then there should be, there are a wide variety of explanations for this.

    1. People taking the 12 marker test (which is no longer available)
    2. I've heard the FtDNA test itself is unreliable.
    3. Intentionally low quality detection software due to incompetence or in order to force people to upgrade.

  4. #4
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Pat-U106-H-e1a4b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5a1b

    Ethnic group
    a true mutt
    Country: USA - Illinois



    So if you are positive for U106, L151, and L51 you would be included in all three in this sampling?

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    They are all terminal except for R1b-* which is the sum of all R1b haplogroups. Downstream haplogroups are placed in the proper upstream. !ISOGG are R- haplogroups not listed on ISOGG or YFull.

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    Thanks Expredel!. R-M269 is huge and overrepresented from what I have investigated if you look at "terminal" SNPs. I say "terminal" because as you said:

    - People with cheap DNA tests are catalogued as R-M269 as downstream tests are not included. It is not really terminal, but "as far as you went"
    - Positive results for additional SNPs, buried in the raw data and BAM files, or even STRs that point to a specific subclade, are not reported so the subject is tempted to find out more and buy additional tests.

    So R-M269 includes all R-L51, Z2103, R-PF7562, etc. and deeper subclades of people that have not tested deeper.

    I'll try to find out, but are there living people with real terminal R-M269? That means being negative to all known subclades (and even unknown)

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