I1 subclade table based on 60K FtDNA samples

[Wheal]

Sorry, I only tested 37 markers to get basic HG.

 

[Wheal]

I1 (for 67+ markers, try level for I-s, 40+ subclades)

 

[Wheal]

Haplo-I Subclades and probabilities are as follows:
I-M253-AS6 =>32% I-M253-AS5 =>31% I-M253-AS1 =>12% I-M253-AS1H =>6% I-M253-AS9a =>4% I-M253-EE =>4% I-M253-ML =>3% I-M253-ASgen =>2% I-M253-1313 =>2% I-M253-AS8 =>1% I-M253-AS10 =>1%

 

[spruithean]

I have taken the numbers generously compiled by Expredel to make the following tables:

1. Percent of I1a3 (Z63) of total I1 in a country (column K)

View attachment 10093

2. Percent of I1a3 (Z63) of total population in a country (column L)

View attachment 10094

England/Netherlands and UK/Germany similarity shows that Z63 was a small contingent of the Saxons.

Overall, Z63 was not as prolific as the other two main I1 branches.

I1a2 has a surprising spread from Scandinavia to the Isles and mainland Europe. I1a3, doesn't seem to be as prolific, but perhaps that is due to lack of testing? Can we really attribute Z58, Z63 to just the Saxons? L22 and friends seem to be quite assuredly Scandinavian (or so it seems). Z58 and Z63 seem to be less definitive with their distribution.

 

[I1a3_Young]

I1a2 has a surprising spread from Scandinavia to the Isles and mainland Europe. I1a3, doesn't seem to be as prolific, but perhaps that is due to lack of testing? Can we really attribute Z58, Z63 to just the Saxons? L22 and friends seem to be quite assuredly Scandinavian (or so it seems). Z58 and Z63 seem to be less definitive with their distribution.

I never said Z63 was only Saxon, but that it was surely carried by the Saxons. It's the same with the Gothic tribes. Z63 predates the formation of these tribes and they both got low amounts because of shared Germanic heritage.

Z58 has many Nordic subclades and is widely distributed while Z63 spread into Scandinavia is probably incidental contact with continental Z63 carriers over time, rather than being a source of Z63.

Z58 also has a more north to south distribution. Heavy in Scandinavia, Germany, and the southern tribes like Allemans. Z63 is more east to west, being more Saxon and Gothic but less Scandinavian. I suspect there is less Z63 in places like Austria, Slovenia, Switzerland because Z63 might not have been as common in the southern German tribes.

As for evidence of Saxon distribution of Z63, check the FTDNA map thread again to see where the Z63 clusters are located in Britain. Saxon lands and lowland Scotland.

The Hamilton clan in Scotland is Z63 and has had many BigY tests, skewing the results. Their claim for their lineage is Norman.

Aside from the Hamiltons there's nobody on Yfull with Z63 that has a Scotland flag set.

 

[spruithean]

Haplo-I Subclades and probabilities are as follows:
I-M253-AS6 =>32% I-M253-AS5 =>31% I-M253-AS1 =>12% I-M253-AS1H =>6% I-M253-AS9a =>4% I-M253-EE =>4% I-M253-ML =>3% I-M253-ASgen =>2% I-M253-1313 =>2% I-M253-AS8 =>1% I-M253-AS10 =>1%

I-M253-AS6 & AS5 seem to belong firmly to the I-Z140 group, specifically the subclade F2642. This may mean that your husband/sons are one of the various branches under I-Z58 (I1a2). That same Haplo-I Subclade predictor places me somewhere between AS6 and AS5, however further SNP testing has found that my Y-haplogroup is downstream of Z58.

I never said Z63 was only Saxon, but that it was surely carried by the Saxons. It's the same with the Gothic tribes. Z63 predates the formation of these tribes and they both got low amounts because of shared Germanic heritage.

Z58 has many Nordic subclades and is widely distributed while Z63 spread into Scandinavia is probably incidental contact with continental Z63 carriers over time, rather than being a source of Z63.

Z58 also has a more north to south distribution. Heavy in Scandinavia, Germany, and the southern tribes like Allemans. Z63 is more east to west, being more Saxon and Gothic but less Scandinavian. I suspect there is less Z63 in places like Austria, Slovenia, Switzerland because Z63 might not have been as common in the southern German tribes.

As for evidence of Saxon distribution of Z63, check the FTDNA map thread again to see where the Z63 clusters are located in Britain. Saxon lands and lowland Scotland.

The Hamilton clan in Scotland is Z63 and has had many BigY tests, skewing the results. Their claim for their lineage is Norman.

Aside from the Hamiltons there's nobody on Yfull with Z63 that has a Scotland flag set.

Ah okay, I see what you mean. I think the distribution and mapping of the distribution for the three main I1 branches could certainly be of major value in the future, especially if we come across more ancient I1 samples in Europe.

I had forgotten about the I-Z63 Hamiltons! Clan Hamilton DNA project has a rather large amount of I1 haplotypes, I seem to recall it was believed that the I-L338 group was likely to be of Anglo-Saxon origin, but perhaps the opinion on that has since changed.

 

[I1a3_Young]

Ah okay, I see what you mean. I think the distribution and mapping of the distribution for the three main I1 branches could certainly be of major value in the future, especially if we come across more ancient I1 samples in Europe.

I had forgotten about the I-Z63 Hamiltons! Clan Hamilton DNA project has a rather large amount of I1 haplotypes, I seem to recall it was believed that the I-L338 group was likely to be of Anglo-Saxon origin, but perhaps the opinion on that has since changed.

I would agree that it would make more sense for the Hamiltons to be Anglo-Saxon, but I know they claim Norman. Often the origination stories are made up for social standing.

Check out this text from an older book that goes into the details of the intricacies of the Anglo-Saxon origins. Things were very complicated with the migrations to Britain.

http://archive.org/stream/originofanglosax00shoruoft/originofanglosax00shoruoft_djvu.txt

 

[Wheal]

I-M253-AS6 & AS5 seem to belong firmly to the I-Z140 group, specifically the subclade F2642. This may mean that your husband/sons are one of the various branches under I-Z58 (I1a2). That same Haplo-I Subclade predictor places me somewhere between AS6 and AS5, however further SNP testing has found that my Y-haplogroup is downstream of Z58.

I would say they are downstream of which ever group. There were quite a few additional mutations in each of the top three categories.

The paternal family is from most probably Rotterdam area. At least that is the area that the spouse of the most distant know paternal spouse's family.