Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 74

Thread: New map of average male body height in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa

  1. #1
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.

    Post New map of average male body height in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa



    I noticed that there was no good map covering all countries with serious data, so I made one.

    This map was made based on the combined data from Wikipedia, Worlddata.info, a study by Grasgruber et al. (2016) (for the Middle East and North Africa), Diggita (for Italian regions) and Destatis (for German states). Other anthropological studies not published online were used for Dutch, French and Spanish regions.

    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Tutkun Arnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-03-18
    Posts
    296

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a(m223)(L801)

    Country: Albania



    2 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Kosovo average height for male population is 181! The mistake is 4 inches! Also Albanian average height for male population is 175 cm. How come Greeks are taller than Turks when they share identical gene pool? Stormfront map?

  3. #3
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    15-12-17
    Posts
    121
    Points
    1,455
    Level
    10
    Points: 1,455, Level: 10
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 95
    Overall activity: 29.0%


    Country: Germany - Bayern



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Numbers for northern albanians are not right.

    Average height for Prishtina(northern albanians) is 179.52 cm.
    And that is the number for urban populations. If you start measuring the mountaineers you will get an even higher number some places.

    So for better accuracy i would suggest that you use some other sources for the albanian lands. Because the whole balkan region comes out a bit unatural on this map, with that lighter colored gap in kosova and albania, while all surrounding areas are darker. I would imagine i worked more like a set of clines, with lowlanders being on average shorter, while highlanders like Hercegovinians, montenegrins and gheg albanians are taller on average.

    These are just some suggestions. If you agree, and if you find the time, it would be great to see it get corrected somehow.

  4. #4
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,345
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,345, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Kosovo average height for male population is 181! The mistake is 4 inches! Also Albanian average height for male population is 175 cm. How come Greeks are taller than Turks when they share identical gene pool? Stormfront map?
    How absurd. Since when did Turks become 25% Slavic?


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  5. #5
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Kosovo average height for male population is 181! The mistake is 4 inches! Also Albanian average height for male population is 175 cm. How come Greeks are taller than Turks when they share identical gene pool? Stormfront map?
    I admit that I used the data for Albania for Kosovo too. What are your sources for Kosovo?

    I was surprised too that the Greeks are considerably taller than South Italians and Turks, but as Angela said modern Greeks have 25% of Slavic (and Germanic) DNA. In Northern Greece it's even over 40% and autosomal data shows the same thing. There are surely regional variations within Greece, but I couldn't find any regional data.

  6. #6
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernekar View Post
    Numbers for northern albanians are not right.

    Average height for Prishtina(northern albanians) is 179.52 cm.
    And that is the number for urban populations. If you start measuring the mountaineers you will get an even higher number some places.

    So for better accuracy i would suggest that you use some other sources for the albanian lands. Because the whole balkan region comes out a bit unatural on this map, with that lighter colored gap in kosova and albania, while all surrounding areas are darker. I would imagine i worked more like a set of clines, with lowlanders being on average shorter, while highlanders like Hercegovinians, montenegrins and gheg albanians are taller on average.

    These are just some suggestions. If you agree, and if you find the time, it would be great to see it get corrected somehow.
    What are your sources? The 174 cm comes from the extensive Albania Demographic and Health Survey (2008-9) which includes 649 samples aged 20-29.

  7. #7
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,381
    Points
    38,396
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,396, Level: 60
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 654
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I noticed that there was no good map covering all countries with serious data, so I made one.

    This map was made based on the combined data from Wikipedia, Worlddata.info, a study by Grasgruber et al. (2016) (for the Middle East and North Africa), Diggita (for Italian regions) and Destatis (for German states). Other anthropological studies not published online were used for Dutch, French and Spanish regions.

    This map is partly inaccurate, surely not by your proper fault - to be accurate,maps concerning statures have to made regionally (subregionally when possible, spite local differences tend to decrease) and comparing similar generations and - for some comparisons with past - separating OLD CITIZENS FROM MIGRANTS; when we come on Wiki and other sites which trie to be serious, we see almost NO corresponding statistics; no correspondance or periods, someones are made concerning a tme span of 5 years, other mixing the allover pop mean of a given year in place of the generation mean and so forth... So we find everytime discrepancy spite of great numbers of persons studied - very often, a good eyed tourist see better the statures means than "serious" statistics! a mesologic problem: pops statures evoluate with time not because of the time but of the economic-sanitary-lifestyle conditions, and these evolutions do'nt occur everywhere in the same proportions and in first place not in the same time. But a result is a result, may say one, whateverthe mesologic conditions; what I observed is that on a long enough span of time, old differences tend to be confirmed as a whole;
    so here, without going into details, I would say Albanians were and are rather in the European mean or rather a bit higher (spite economical conditions always a bit worst), the Tosks being a bit shorter than the Greeks mean, but the Gheghs being higher, rather among the highest Europe group - Romanians a swa in Northwest are higher than French, it's sure; in the highlands they tended to be a bit higher than Greeks in older surveys; in plains I don't know for to date but in ancient times they were not too short - to me original British people are still higher than original French people - I stop here for the details -
    that said this map seems a confirmation that the higher people in Europe are the Northern Germanics and the inhabitants of the Dinaric Alps, roughly said.
    This post in not a critic because I know it's hard to can obtain comparable statistics from everyplace -
    &: states for women would be interesting too, because they don't correlate completely in details with the men ones -

  8. #8
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,345
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,345, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    I don't know about Albania or Northeastern Europe because I've never been there, but I've been to almost all of western and southern Europe and in terms of relative height it seems right on.

    Yes, there are some areas of the Appennini where people are much taller than the average for the particular provinces involved, i.e. Emilia, Toscana, Liguria etc., but this is about general averages. (My paternal grandmother was about 5'10, 5'11, and her father was much taller than she was, for example.)

  9. #9
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    24-04-15
    Posts
    115
    Points
    594
    Level
    6
    Points: 594, Level: 6
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 156
    Overall activity: 32.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: United Arab Emirates



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    What are your sources? The 174 cm comes from the extensive Albania Demographic and Health Survey (2008-9) which includes 649 samples aged 20-29.
    This source is kind of useless for comparison to other countries in the case of Albania (or even Romania perhaps) since it practically shows the differences in mean height of different economic statuses. I'm digging into it and it says in 2008-09 19% of children are stunted, 11% severely stunted, 9% wasted, 6% severely wasted, 5% underweight for their, 2% severely underweight for their age, and it pinpoints the improvements made from 2000 to 2009.

    Now the men measured here were from 20-29 years old, basically the generation born in the 80s (during communism), so you can imagine why many Albanians are surprised to see such low means. I guess we're used to living/visiting main cities and most of us are probably born in the 90s so it's strange for us to see means below 180cm, but the hard truth is that malnutrition is real and its effects are severe.

    I believe most of us are more interested to see a study done on Albanians who are currently in their early 20s and living in Tirana/Prishtina or elsewhere in the world even better.

    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    so here, without going into details, I would say Albanians were and are rather in the European mean or rather a bit higher (spite economical conditions always a bit worst), the Tosks being a bit shorter than the Greeks mean, but the Gheghs being higher, rather among the highest Europe group

    Actually, as a Gheg myself (and from the tallest region), nowadays the difference between Tosks and Ghegs is exaggerated and most people have gotten this idea from old anthropological books.

    In reality during the 50 years of communism Tosks had considerably better nutrition and were far more urbanized than Ghegs, giving them a "boost" when compared to Ghegs. For instance in the health survey the authors noted that the female average was 160-161cm, but in Tirana it was 165cm and keep in mind that until the 90s Tirana had far more Tosks than Ghegs, and most of these Ghegs weren't actually North Albanians but central Albanians.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    15-12-17
    Posts
    121
    Points
    1,455
    Level
    10
    Points: 1,455, Level: 10
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 95
    Overall activity: 29.0%


    Country: Germany - Bayern



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    What are your sources? The 174 cm comes from the extensive Albania Demographic and Health Survey (2008-9) which includes 649 samples aged 20-29.
    My number comes from a 2017 national survey in Kosova with 830 men.

    This is the name of the survey: "Stature and its Estimation Utilizing Arm SpanMeasurements in Kosovan Adults: National Survey"

    SUMMARY: The purpose of this research is to examine stature in both Kosovan sexes as well as its association with arm span,as an alternative to estimating stature. A total of 1623 individuals (830 boys and 793 girls) participated in this research. The anthropometricmeasurements were taken according to the protocol of ISAK. The relationships between stature and arm span were determined usingsimple correlation coefficients at a ninety-five percent confidence interval. Then a linear regression analysis was carried out to examineextent to which arm span can reliably predict stature. Results displayed that Kosovan boys are 179.52±5.96 cm tall and have an arm spanof 181.29±7.02 cm, while Kosovan girls are 165.72±4.93 cm tall and have an arm span of 165.60±5.87 cm. The results have shown thatboth sexes made Kosovans a tall nation but not even close to be in the top tallest nations. Moreover, the arm span reliably predicts staturein both sexes

  11. #11
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,381
    Points
    38,396
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,396, Level: 60
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 654
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    what signifies this '+ or - 5,96' ?!? is this a reliable mean or the generalized result of a calculation based on arm span after a smaller sample empirical controle??? BTW, what age(s)?
    &: at the average level, in a pop we can guess stature based on arm span or the contrary - not in individuals!
    and the ratio can vary from region to region of Europe -

  12. #12
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    19-04-12
    Posts
    384
    Points
    10,934
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,934, Level: 31
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 316
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Finland



    Quote Originally Posted by Ernekar View Post
    My number comes from a 2017 national survey in Kosova with 830 men.

    This is the name of the survey: "Stature and its Estimation Utilizing Arm SpanMeasurements in Kosovan Adults: National Survey"

    SUMMARY: The purpose of this research is to examine stature in both Kosovan sexes as well as its association with arm span,as an alternative to estimating stature. A total of 1623 individuals (830 boys and 793 girls) participated in this research. The anthropometricmeasurements were taken according to the protocol of ISAK. The relationships between stature and arm span were determined usingsimple correlation coefficients at a ninety-five percent confidence interval. Then a linear regression analysis was carried out to examineextent to which arm span can reliably predict stature. Results displayed that Kosovan boys are 179.52±5.96 cm tall and have an arm spanof 181.29±7.02 cm, while Kosovan girls are 165.72±4.93 cm tall and have an arm span of 165.60±5.87 cm. The results have shown thatboth sexes made Kosovans a tall nation but not even close to be in the top tallest nations. Moreover, the arm span reliably predicts staturein both sexes
    Most Kosovars in Finland are tall, i would say their average is not different than Finnish, at least the ones i saw here.

  13. #13
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Thank you all for your feedback. I will modify Albania and Kosovo.

  14. #14
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,381
    Points
    38,396
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,396, Level: 60
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 654
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Confirm Kosovars are very tall too, maybe a bit taller than Finns of West Finland -
    Frenchies "de souche" are among the shortest Europeans as a whole, but with regional differences (fading out slowly)
    Bretons of the Center are very small, due I think to some ancient input of pre-Neolithic pre-Metals Ages 'teviecoids' (small HG's), whose traits are still visible in the population (usefulness of taxinomy, sometimes) - nothing to do with socio-economal condition

  15. #15
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Boreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-05-15
    Location
    Istanbul
    Posts
    689
    Points
    5,840
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,840, Level: 22
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 210
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP346
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1b1b1

    Ethnic group
    Rumî
    Country: Turkey



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post

    The main problem about Turkey, Turkish source are not detailed as Germany-France-Spain. There is no regional difference. There are 15 millon Kurds (according to some nationalist Kurdish source, it is upto 25 millons), 1 millon ethnic Arabs (not the immigrants) live in Turkey.

    According to 2009 research, Male Height

    The Tallest
    181cm - İzmir (3rd biggest city)
    180cm - Bursa (4th biggest city)
    179cm - Balıkesir
    178,5cm - Antalya(5th biggest city)
    178cm - Denizli

    and the shortest are from East Blacksea


    Talls are Blue, shorts are red.

    Is there any statistic about Pontic Greeks? Are they below the averange?
    It is weird. Neighbour Georgia is taller but Turkish Pontus is shortest in Turkey.

    About Greek and Slav? Didn't we say that, current Greeks don't have that much Slavic influence as the old theories said.

  16. #16
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    The main problem about Turkey, Turkish source are not detailed as Germany-France-Spain. There is no regional difference. There are 15 millon Kurds (according to some nationalist Kurdish source, it is upto 25 millons), 1 millon ethnic Arabs (not the immigrants) live in Turkey.

    According to 2009 research, Male Height

    The Tallest
    181cm - İzmir (3rd biggest city)
    180cm - Bursa (4th biggest city)
    179cm - Balıkesir
    178,5cm - Antalya(5th biggest city)
    178cm - Denizli

    and the shortest are from East Blacksea


    Talls are Blue, shorts are red.

    Is there any statistic about Pontic Greeks? Are they below the averange?
    It is weird. Neighbour Georgia is taller but Turkish Pontus is shortest in Turkey.

    About Greek and Slav? Didn't we say that, current Greeks don't have that much Slavic influence as the old theories said.
    Thanks. I would like to update the map based on the regional differences in Turkey. Do you have the complete data from this study?

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Boreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-05-15
    Location
    Istanbul
    Posts
    689
    Points
    5,840
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,840, Level: 22
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 210
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP346
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1b1b1

    Ethnic group
    Rumî
    Country: Turkey



    It is in Turkish and they took 25 province, 66.000 male

    Attachment 10073
    This is the most clear one. I couldn't find larger version

  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    16-10-17
    Posts
    209
    Points
    2,693
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,693, Level: 14
    Level completed: 81%, Points required for next Level: 57
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    H2a1 M9313
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c3

    Country: UK - England



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Regarding Height,

    I can only speak from my own experiences, But I live in the North East of England, previously a heavy industrialised area, with many coal mine's etc now gone. The area I live was surrounded by deep coal mining, and Strangley the majority of the coal miners were of a similar height, obviously you would see the odd differing heights but the majority were on average classed as quite small, and stocky, ie the average height of male miners were around the 5ft 7" inches. ( 1.70 cm ), not many over 5ft 8 inches, (1.72 cm ), this was the average pre-second world war .

    ( even Police officers from other area' forces of the Uk would make fun of the smaller height of the miners they were confronting on the picket lines,of County Durham,and Northumberland, etc during the year long miners strike of 1984 )

    Since the second world war, these mining industries were closed, most after the miners strike of 1984. Since that time, ie 1980s many male children born to these same families were now being born significantly taller, often reaching 6ft ( 1.82 cm )and over . This significant change to increased height became common in the same families that had many generations of male underground mine workers, with the average heights as stated the norm.

    These changes have to be connected to a change of enviroment, nurishment and a increase in food supply and diet choice, since the second world war/colliery closures. I believe in what I see, as my own family and cousins see the same changes, and as a result I have to question any genetic reasoning, as a sole cause.
    Last edited by paul333; 05-05-18 at 17:40. Reason: corrections

  19. #19
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,345
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,345, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by paul333 View Post
    Regarding Height,

    I can only speak from my own experiences, But I live in the North East of England, previously a heavy industrialised area, with many coal mine's etc now gone. The area I live was surrounded by deep coal mining, and Strangley the majority of the coal miners were of a similar height, obviously you would see the odd differing heights but the majority were on average classed as quite small, and stocky, ie the average height of male miners were around the 5ft 7" inches. ( 1.70 cm ), not many over 5ft 8 inches, (1.72 cm ), this was the average pre-second world war .

    ( even Police officers from other area' forces of the Uk would make fun of the smaller height of the miners they were confronting on the picket lines,of County Durham,and Northumberland, etc during the year long miners strike of 1984 )

    Since the second world war, these mining industries were closed, most after the miners strike of 1984. Since that time, ie 1980s many male children born to these same families were now being born significantly taller, often reaching 6ft ( 1.82 cm )and over . This significant change to increased height became common in the same families that had many generations of male underground mine workers, with the average heights as stated the norm.

    These changes have to be connected to a change of enviroment, nurishment and a increase in food supply and diet choice, since the second world war/colliery closures. I believe in what I see, as my own family and cousins see the same changes, and as a result I have to question any genetic reasoning, as a sole cause.
    I think you're right about that, Paul, but I don't think it necessarily only applies to people from that specific area of Britain, either. Close to where I moved in the U.S. there is a Revolutionary War fort. You can tour the sleeping quarters, see the beds, and they have cases of displays of their actual uniforms. It made quite an impression on me that virtually all of them were about my height, and I'm 5'6" tall.

    It wasn't that different even by the time of the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln at 6'4" was considered a freakish giant who was constantly made fun of for his height.

    I think it's a combination of genes and environment, which includes diet.

    Part of the reason why modern people are so tall nowadays, and even come to puberty earlier in the case of women, is because of so much dairy consumption, the milk of which often contains hormones. The overeating of protein is also involved.

  20. #20
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by paul333 View Post
    Regarding Height,

    I can only speak from my own experiences, But I live in the North East of England, previously a heavy industrialised area, with many coal mine's etc now gone. The area I live was surrounded by deep coal mining, and Strangley the majority of the coal miners were of a similar height, obviously you would see the odd differing heights but the majority were on average classed as quite small, and stocky, ie the average height of male miners were around the 5ft 7" inches. ( 1.70 cm ), not many over 5ft 8 inches, (1.72 cm ), this was the average pre-second world war .

    ( even Police officers from other area' forces of the Uk would make fun of the smaller height of the miners they were confronting on the picket lines,of County Durham,and Northumberland, etc during the year long miners strike of 1984 )

    Since the second world war, these mining industries were closed, most after the miners strike of 1984. Since that time, ie 1980s many male children born to these same families were now being born significantly taller, often reaching 6ft ( 1.82 cm )and over . This significant change to increased height became common in the same families that had many generations of male underground mine workers, with the average heights as stated the norm.

    These changes have to be connected to a change of enviroment, nurishment and a increase in food supply and diet choice, since the second world war/colliery closures. I believe in what I see, as my own family and cousins see the same changes, and as a result I have to question any genetic reasoning, as a sole cause.
    In developed countries in most families every generation has been getting taller over the last 60 years or so due to richer diet and to a lesser extent also better health care (some diseases can stunt growth if left untreated or not properly treated). That doesn't mean that height isn't mostly genetic. Huge differences still exist between individuals even in the same environment with similar diets, and that is ultimately because of DNA. That's how it's possible to tell that 60% to 80% of body height variations are down to genetics rather than diet or the environment.

  21. #21
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    It is in Turkish and they took 25 province, 66.000 male

    Attachment 10073
    This is the most clear one. I couldn't find larger version
    No file has been attached. Do you have a link to the study maybe? Even in Turkish.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Boreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-05-15
    Location
    Istanbul
    Posts
    689
    Points
    5,840
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,840, Level: 22
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 210
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP346
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1b1b1

    Ethnic group
    Rumî
    Country: Turkey



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    No file has been attached. Do you have a link to the study maybe? Even in Turkish.

    Attachment 10074

    Sorry

  23. #23
    Moderator Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,032
    Points
    23,189
    Level
    46
    Points: 23,189, Level: 46
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 361
    Overall activity: 12.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I noticed that there was no good map covering all countries with serious data, so I made one.
    I've found historical data for Italy for the years 1879-1883. I hope to find out if there is any more recent and updated study on Italy.


  24. #24
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,345
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,345, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    I've found historical data for Italy for the years 1879-1883. I hope to find out if there is any more recent and updated study on Italy.

    I wonder if the relative positioning would be the same today, even if everyone is taller.

    My impression is that the average male height in most of Europe in the 19th century was about 5'7".

  25. #25
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,381
    Points
    38,396
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,396, Level: 60
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 654
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    agree : genetic, food, hygiene but also kind of sport and age of the practice of it (oxygenation on ossification); I repeat increase in height is not by force a sign of increase in force or in health, some food elements are good, other bad, even if they afford increase in stature -
    concerning N-E England, in allover pop states, they were among the highest ones before the last mondial war -
    miners are a social case, social class being interacting with to the mesologic elements written above - the England/Britain great diversity in stature was well known and Coon also spoke about it ( that said 1m70 in 1940 was rather high for the European mean!: and just a bit higher than the allover Wales and Scotland means which reached 1m705 only in the 1950's, English mean being more than 1m71) -
    when I wrote for Brittany and Teviec types I excluded the socio-economical input because in this specific case, the variations does not seem linked to this social aspect, what is not to say this social aspect does not exist -
    I think we all agree with this "pannel" of influences on the stature -

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •