New map of Slavic Y-DNA

[Angela]

Another t-roll gone. Thank you, members, for alerting me to the provocative, disruptive behavior and requesting action.

For the rest of you, settle down. Civil, polite discussion based on data or I'll close this thread too.

You have no one but yourselves to blame.

Honestly, some of you people make me feel like a junior high school lunchroom and recess monitor. Grow up.

 

[Sile]

No if N exists in Slavs it's because of full blown Mongoloids it's actually in Finland and Sami it would not be Avars but probably Sabirs...
Lol at Serbs being Albanian shifted too but aren't they originally Illyrian by their claims?
If Serbs are the most North shifted in all of Balkans it makes sense they are pretty tall at least almost as much as Montenegro and forgive me for saying so they are pretty equipped in the right departments from what they show me in Omegle lol

Serbs claim Thracian ( after the triballi tribe ), not illyrian
Exonym of Serbs
The Seal of the Serbian Parliament, 1805
Golden pitcher from Vratsa
The term "Triballians" appears frequently in Byzantine and other European works of the Middle Ages, referring exclusively to Serbs.[14][15][16][17][18] Some of these authors clearly explain that "Triballian" is synonym to "Serbian".[19][20][21][22][23] For example, Niketas Choniates (or Acominatus, 1155–1215 or-16) in his history about Emperor Ioannes Komnenos: "... Shortly after this, he campaigned against the nation of Triballians (whom someone may call Serbians as well) ..."[24] or the much later Demetrios Chalkondyles (1423–1511), referring to an Islamized Christian noble: "... This Mahmud, son of Michael, is Triballian, which means Serbian, by his mother, and Greek by his father."[25] or Mehmed the Conqueror when referring to the plundering of Serbia.[26]

 

[LABERIA]

And another one is back. 16 minutes, just the time for a coffee.

 

[Angela]

Yeah, well, you're on a VERY short leash now. Next time it's PERMANENT.

Didn't mommy ever teach you how to play nice?

 

[ihype02]

Serbs claim Thracian ( after the triballi tribe ), not illyrian
Exonym of Serbs
The Seal of the Serbian Parliament, 1805
Golden pitcher from Vratsa
The term "Triballians" appears frequently in Byzantine and other European works of the Middle Ages, referring exclusively to Serbs.[14][15][16][17][18] Some of these authors clearly explain that "Triballian" is synonym to "Serbian".[19][20][21][22][23] For example, Niketas Choniates (or Acominatus, 1155–1215 or-16) in his history about Emperor Ioannes Komnenos: "... Shortly after this, he campaigned against the nation of Triballians (whom someone may call Serbians as well) ..."[24] or the much later Demetrios Chalkondyles (1423–1511), referring to an Islamized Christian noble: "... This Mahmud, son of Michael, is Triballian, which means Serbian, by his mother, and Greek by his father."[25] or Mehmed the Conqueror when referring to the plundering of Serbia.[26]

Byzantines also considered Albanians, Macedonians. And Plethon actually claimed the Peloponessians of 15th century (Albanians, Greeks, Italians and Slavs) were the direct descendants of the ancient Hellenes. With that being said no eminent scholar takes those claims seriously without backing data.

 

[LABERIA]

Yeah, well, you're on a VERY short leash now. Next time it's PERMANENT.

Didn't mommy ever teach you how to play nice?

Excuse me, this your post is addressed to me?

 

[Yetos]

Arnauts were from the Byzantine Albanians I think they're related to Tosks or whatever

Arnaut is a Turkish word,

it has 2 meanings

the one is the one who leaves and never comes back
the other is the one who can not change his mind, a kind of stuck mind.

usually was used to term the Albanians who served the ottoman's empire,
as public officers or military forces.
but after their service, they did not return home

 

[Yetos]

Byzantines also considered Albanians, Macedonians. And Plethon actually claimed the Peloponessians of 15th century (Albanians, Greeks, Italians and Slavs) were the direct descendants of the ancient Hellenes. With that being said no eminent scholar takes those claims seriously without backing data.

which Makedonians?
and which Albanians?
and what era?

 

[LABERIA]

Arnaut is a Turkish word,

it has 2 meanings

the one is the one who leaves and never comes back
the other is the one who can not change his mind, a kind of stuck mind.

usually was used to term the Albanians who served the ottoman's empire,
as public officers or military forces.
but after their service, they did not return home

It's not true and it's one of your falsifications.

 

[Fatherland]

I gotta hand my respects to Laberia for this... His persistence is unmatched... Like the one of an immovable object against the masses of Serbo-Greko trol-ls....

 

[Dibran]

I might be, we know we had one Serbian woman like 6 or 7 generations ago, i expected my autosomal to score some Slavic genetics in advance, it was no surprise to me.

Its funny that you mention a bit of my Slavic influence while you dont mention Albanian and Vlach influence that is pulling all Serbs away from Croats, Slovens, Hungarians and rest. Serbs are obviously more Albanian shifted then rest of their neighbors (as it can be seen on V2 K15 map below). Probably Bulgarian influence also pulls them towards the South.


Here you can see map of some Albanian members plotting together:

Eurogenes v2 K15

As you can see i plot just fine with other Albanians, a bit N Italian and Tuscany shifted while Serbs Plot towards Albanians so away from your so desired North

Whats funny to me is i just realized Fustanovic, that you joined up with, to ruin my M205 thread is also there. Funny that he says Slav this and Slav that when he is the most Serbian shifted one lol

Lnao Fustanovic. Wow. I knew there was reason to his rage. I’m not on there but I plot directly under Ylla . Our results are really similar. My father is to the top left of Era.

 

[ihype02]

which Makedonians?
and which Albanians?
and what era?

Laonikos Chalkokondyles considered Albanians the descendants of Macedonians. Not to say he was right. But what I am trying to say that some historians did have some wrong opinions.

 

[ihype02]

I didn't mention Montenegrins. I am not sure how reliable 23andMe's Ancestry Composition is, but Croats, Bosniaks and Serbs have between 60 and 80% of Balkans admixture + a few percents of 'French & German' (mostly Celtic), 'Northwest European' (mostly Germanic) and 'Broadly South European'. I am not exactly sure what that 'Balkans' corresponds to, but probably the blend of Neolithic, Bronze and Iron Age populations that defined the ancient Illyrians, Greeks and Thracians. The South Slavic migration was apparently strongly male-biased and got progressively diluted autosomally along the way so that their genetic impact was much stronger on the Y-DNA side than autosomally.

I doubt that the tall body height of Dinaric people come from the Slavs. It was probably inherited from the ancient population. It could also have arisen from the blend of various complementary alleles for height from both Illyrian and Slavic populations.

When the invaders brought 70% Y-DNA (in Bosnia) they did also contribute 50% of their autosomal DNA, that's 35% overall autosomal contribution, from men alone, if one assumes that these men were genetically pure or at least close to that. And of course they did brought women with them too.

I agree that South Slavs are very mixed, especially the southern ones, but I believe their Slavic admixture is underestimated. I may be wrong about that though.

 

[Nik]

When the invaders brought 70% Y-DNA (in Bosnia) they did also contribute 50% of their autosomal DNA, that's 35% overall autosomal contribution, from men alone, if one assumes that these men were genetically pure or at least close to that. And of course they did brought women with them too.

I agree that South Slavs are very mixed, especially the southern ones, but I believe their Slavic admixture is underestimated. I may be wrong about that though.

But as you briefly mentioned, that doesn't mean their aDNA was completely alien compared to the locals, after all they lived just North of the Dacians so there's a high probability they weren't 100% North Eastern European or Baltic.

Taking into account the physical description of the ancient authors they were either similar in appearance to the local Balkanites or already highly mixed with them.

 

[Ownstyler]

The physical description doesn't mean much. All populations change in height in different periods. Plus, average Illyrian height is estimated to have been around 165cm.

 

[Tomenable]

It is interesting that around year 1000 AD South Slavs were ca. 1/5 (18-22%) of all Slavs.

See my thread: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...were-only-a-small-part-of-Europe-s-population

Over time their share has declined to around 1/10. The share of East Slavs has increased.

In 1000 AD East Slavs were only slightly over half of Slavs, in 1800 already around 2/3.

 

[Nik]

The physical description doesn't mean much. All populations change in height in different periods. Plus, average Illyrian height is estimated to have been around 165cm.

Nobody's talking about height.

You can't possibly know the average Illyrian height and you're referring to the average height of some coastal Liburnians. You could do more research and find that the skeletons found in Scupi had an average of 172cm. Illyria is a vast territory.

 

[Ownstyler]

Nobody's talking about height.

You can't possibly know the average Illyrian height and you're referring to the average height of some coastal Liburnians. You could do more research and find that the skeletons found in Scupi had an average of 172cm. Illyria is a vast territory.

I cannot read your mind to know what you mean, but when ancient authors describe Illyrians they usually mention height, which Wilkes estimates at 165 cm.

What other enduring physical characteristic are you speaking of anyway? Appearances and perceptions change. And even if two peoples did look similar, it doesn't mean they were related or mixed. Turks and Spaniards have very different ancestries but they would appeare similar if you only had brief descriptions of them.

 

[ihype02]

But as you briefly mentioned, that doesn't mean their aDNA was completely alien compared to the locals, after all they lived just North of the Dacians so there's a high probability they weren't 100% North Eastern European or Baltic.

Taking into account the physical description of the ancient authors they were either similar in appearance to the local Balkanites or already highly mixed with them.

Agreed, the contrast of R1a and I2a shows that South Slavs were probably somewhat different from the Northern ones.

 

[Nik]

I cannot read your mind to know what you mean, but when ancient authors describe Illyrians they usually mention height, which Wilkes estimates at 165 cm.

What other enduring physical characteristic are you speaking of anyway? Appearances and perceptions change. And even if two peoples did look similar, it doesn't mean they were related or mixed. Turks and Spaniards have very different ancestries but they would appeare similar if you only had brief descriptions of them.

Read about the descriptions of the Slavs that came into contact with the Romans/Byzantines. It's not the typical modern Eastern Slav at all but rather similar to the Yugoslavs.

And knowing that Yugoslavs do overlap with Albanians for example, I said they were either pretty similar in appearance to ancient Balkanites or they were already mixed with them by the time they were described so when they settled in the Western Balkans at least they were already admixed autosomally, despite the fact that they brought I2a to levels even up to 70%, although 30% is the usual average.