Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 285

Thread: New map of Slavic Y-DNA

  1. #76
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    firetown's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-08-11
    Posts
    409
    Points
    7,230
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,230, Level: 25
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 320
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Polish/German/Jewish/Rh-
    Country: USA - California



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Yes, all Northern Europeans were seen as tall by the Greeks and Romans, even the Gauls. Modern Italians (esp. in the North) and Greeks are considerably taller than ancient Romans and Greeks would have been, in part due to the influx of Germanic and Slavic people during the Late Antiquity.
    In the past 100 years, height change in Europe has been significant. Especially in Nothern Europe.
    european-height.jpg
    I never understood it. And I still don't.
    It seems for the first time in 18,000 years, human height in those regions is what it once was. But of course, there is limited data to go by.
    human-heights-over-the-long-run.jpg

  2. #77
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    There might be more broad "Balto-Slavic" connection in later times to Venethi or the later Wends clearly reffer to Slavs,but i will be cautious to ascribe direct link between Venethi and medieval Sclaveni or Slavs in general,especialy if we take this account of Jordanes only.
    Wends was term used by Germans for their Slavic neighbors,Finns i think still call Russians by similar name.
    The only wends are the Veleti tribe
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veleti
    The Venedi are not Veleti, they are west -baltic people that later became known as the warmians .............top right corner of map below
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...eris_typus.jpg
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  3. #78
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,448
    Points
    55,777
    Level
    73
    Points: 55,777, Level: 73
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,273
    Overall activity: 28.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    In the past 100 years, height change in Europe has been significant. Especially in Nothern Europe.

    I never understood it. And I still don't.
    It seems for the first time in 18,000 years, human height in those regions is what it once was. But of course, there is limited data to go by.
    This study also has interesting data about height changes over time:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Two_Millennia

  4. #79
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    firetown's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-08-11
    Posts
    409
    Points
    7,230
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,230, Level: 25
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 320
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Polish/German/Jewish/Rh-
    Country: USA - California



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    This study also has interesting data about height changes over time:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Two_Millennia
    Yeah, but quite mysterious to me. I understand that 18,000 years ago, it was the big strong men procreating as the best providers. It went down during farming when the little guys managed farms best and organized well. But why in the past 100 years was there such a spike of height?

  5. #80
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,448
    Points
    55,777
    Level
    73
    Points: 55,777, Level: 73
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,273
    Overall activity: 28.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    It is also related to nutrition, environmental factors, living standards, etc. - not just to DNA:

    "Pork protein has the biggest additive effect, when combined with dairy proteins (r = 0.82; p < 0.001), followed by protein from eggs (r = 0.81) and potatoes (r = 0.81). The correlation reaches r = 0.84, when potatoes are added to dairy and pork. The highest r-value (r = 0.85) was achieved via the combination of proteins from dairy, pork, beef, eggs and potatoes (‘highly correlated proteins’). The strength of this relationship is visually impressive (Fig. 8). ‘Highly correlated proteins’ are also the strongest correlate of male height (r = 0.85)"



    "Other highly significant nutritional correlates of male stature in 49 non-European countries are total energy intake (r = 0.70; p < 0.001) (Appendix Fig. 9), rice protein (r = −0.65; p < 0.001) and wheat protein (r = 0.62; p < 0.001) (Fig. 7). Rice is the main source of protein in tropical Asia (particularly in Laos, Cambodia and Bangladesh; >30 g/day), which is where we encounter extremely small height means of ∼162–168 cm. The level of rice protein consumption is quite high even in Japan, China and both North and South Korea (>10 g/day). Remarkably, wheat protein correlates with male stature negatively in Europe (r = −0.68; p < 0.001), but positively outside Europe."



    Trends in the consumption of animal protein in 14 countries between 1961 and 2011, compared with the Netherlands:


  6. #81
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredRecommendation Second Class5000 Experience Points
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    713
    Points
    9,684
    Level
    29
    Points: 9,684, Level: 29
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 266
    Overall activity: 44.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ownstyler View Post
    I meant, to determine which sublcadea are Slavic, did you look at which aubclades have only Slavic speakers today?
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I am not sure I understand your question. This map is based on the modern distribution of Y-DNA. Obviously the map would have looked very different in ancient times before the Slavic migrations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    .....................


    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    .....................................


    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    .....................


    I have the same question. For instance the user blog from Vayda, has maps for individual subclades within other subclades. He gets very detailed. Even using the entire database from Ftdna. For Instance when speaking about M458, L1029, he indicates the most common cluster in the Balkans for L1029 is B-Eastern which includes YP417. For instance only 20 percent of Bulgarian L1029 is of the B-Western variey(FGC66325, YP444, FGC27553, YP263 and L1029*).

    The L1029 B-Western cluster has the highest percentage in Poland and Germany. The highest diversity however is within these countries as well. This cluster of L1029 as far as the Balkans is common in Bulgarians, Romanians, Macedonians, Greeks, and now Albanians(myself and my match). Though it is still reaches lower percentages within L1029 compared to B-Eastern.



    The following is the distribution of M458 clades. B-Western is most common in Germany and Poland.

    [IMG]



    Additionally, I belong to L1029*, forming a founder effect somewhere beside YP263 or upstream YP263(downstream from FGC27553). My match that forms a founder effect with me is also Albanian from right over the border from my village(He is from Macedonia). Our TMRCA to our founder clade is between 1600-1000ypb. My relation to other L1029 is a TMRCA of 2000-2300ypb. My closest SNP matches are a Sardinian, Ukrainian, 2 Germans, a Pole from Gdansk, and a Norwegian(albeit a TMRCA of 2000-2300ypb). Only have one close STR match from Beijing China, a native Han chinese who is B-Western, but belonging to basal FGC66325*.

    Per the user Waldemar on anthro, here are the compiled B-Western FGC27553 instances from the R1a project. I am at the top: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2045018272

  7. #82
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,448
    Points
    55,777
    Level
    73
    Points: 55,777, Level: 73
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,273
    Overall activity: 28.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Dibran,

    He labeled B-Western as Lechites which includes Poles and extinct Slavic tribes from East Germany:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lechites

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lechitic_languages

    Apparently they are not as extinct as some people think, if so many Germans carry their Y-DNA.

  8. #83
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,682
    Points
    677,611
    Level
    100
    Points: 677,611, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 32.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Yes it can be hard to tell them apart.It would be easier to make a map showing Balto-Slavic Y-DNA (in such case you just have to count all of R1a-Z280 and you also have to add N1c-M2783 - which is the Baltic subclade of N1c - unless you count it as originally Uralic?). But deducting Baltic R1a only from Baltic countries creates an illusion that all of R1a in neighbouring Slavic countries is Non-Baltic and Slavic. This is not really the case - Russians, Belarusians and Poles also carry Non-Slavic Baltic lineages of R1a, because Northeastern Poland, Northern Belarus and Northwestern Russia used to be inhabited by Balts before the Slavic expansion - and they became assimilated into Slavic populations. Later, there was also the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.All in all, Baltic R1a is 10% to 15% of Polish R1a, if we count all Z92 and CTS1211 other than CTS3402/YP343.See for example: http://www.gwozdz.org/Results.htmlIt can also be calculated based on FTDNA Projects.
    How would you change the percentage of Slavic Y-DNA on the map for regions of Poland (and other countries if you know)?
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  9. #84
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredRecommendation Second Class5000 Experience Points
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    713
    Points
    9,684
    Level
    29
    Points: 9,684, Level: 29
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 266
    Overall activity: 44.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Dibran,

    He labeled B-Western as Lechites which includes Poles and extinct Slavic tribes from East Germany:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lechites

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lechitic_languages

    Apparently they are not as extinct as some people think, if so many Germans carry their Y-DNA.
    Vayda also believes it moved with Goths and Vandals minimally. if you bothered reading his whole post. Also, the Lechitic origin myth is an unsubstantiated cultural legend(that's not science), that was only compiled in the 13th century. Which post dates the split of my founder effect, including the break off with others.

    Additionally, if you read the whole report you would know L1029-B-Western is minimal and not much common in West Slavs at all. Other than Poland and Germany. Even still it has the most diversity in these two countries.

    I know you’re Peterski so I won’t even entertain you compared to how pig headed you were acting on the other forums. Again no ancient YDNA remains.

    Besides, I trust Maciamos level head over your politicized agendas that are obvious in the other forums. Calling peoples neo-nazis for suggesting alternate hypothesis. You’re very tame on here. Don’t think you have people fooled.

    Anyway the question was not directed at you.

  10. #85
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    24-04-15
    Posts
    115
    Points
    594
    Level
    6
    Points: 594, Level: 6
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 156
    Overall activity: 32.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: United Arab Emirates



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The Slavic Y-DNA in Italy, southern France and northern Spain came with the Goths, who had assimilated a lot of (Proto-)Slavic people in Poland and Ukraine before moving into the Roman Empire. Interestingly these Slavs appear to have been almost exclusively R1a-CTS1211 (Y2902 and Y3301 clades), in sharp contrast to the later South Slavs who settled in the Dinaric Alps and Balkans and possessed high percentages of I2a1b-CTS10228 (in addition to R1a-CTS1211).
    Am I the only one who finds this interesting?

    I've always been suspicious on the fact that I2a1b is Slavic but obviously my suspicion is not backed by actual science at all, rather by a few anthropological and historical observations which make me wonder.

    Isn't what Maciamo says a +1 point on the theory that I2a1b is probably a Northeastern Balkan/Carpathian haplogroup that was initially pushed further South and West to the Balkans by several barbarian hordes before the Slavs?

  11. #86
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    I1a3_Young's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-05-17
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    516
    Points
    7,530
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,530, Level: 25
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 20
    Overall activity: 10.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 Z63*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5b1

    Ethnic group
    Basically British
    Country: USA - Arkansas



    I made I1 tables using Expredel's figures for I1 over on the I1 board, which includes the Slavic countries (and others) mentioned in this thread.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...674#post541674
    Administrator of the Young Family Project
    Genetic genealogy enthusiast

  12. #87
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registeredThree Friends
    srdceleva's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    402
    Points
    4,778
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,778, Level: 20
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 272
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-m458(L260)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4b1b1

    Ethnic group
    75% Slovak, 25℅ American mix
    Country: Slovakia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I think the 23andme test is basing their eastern european component off of a baltic like source. If Ukraine would have been used then balkan many balkanic countries would be around 20-55% imo.

    Im also interest about the Deep subclades of N1c in slavic countries. Slovakia also always shows up as having 3-4% N1c but I can never find any info about the type of subclades there.

  13. #88
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    I1a3_Young's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-05-17
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    516
    Points
    7,530
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,530, Level: 25
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 20
    Overall activity: 10.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 Z63*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5b1

    Ethnic group
    Basically British
    Country: USA - Arkansas



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by srdceleva View Post

    Im also interest about the Deep subclades of N1c in slavic countries. Slovakia also always shows up as having 3-4% N1c but I can never find any info about the type of subclades there.
    I also would be interested in better resolution in Slovakia, they have little detailed testing at FTDNA.

  14. #89
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    09-03-17
    Posts
    110
    Points
    1,744
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,744, Level: 11
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 106
    Overall activity: 14.0%


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Zanatis View Post
    Am I the only one who finds this interesting?

    I've always been suspicious on the fact that I2a1b is Slavic but obviously my suspicion is not backed by actual science at all, rather by a few anthropological and historical observations which make me wonder.

    Isn't what Maciamo says a +1 point on the theory that I2a1b is probably a Northeastern Balkan/Carpathian haplogroup that was initially pushed further South and West to the Balkans by several barbarian hordes before the Slavs?
    Its distribution and frequencies are interesting to say the least. It shows that either it wasn't some "core" proto-Slavic clade or that at least certain Slavic-speaking groups that moved to the west (Poland, Czechia) were a bit lacking in it or...Either way, it doesn't seem as directly associated as certain clades of R1a.

    Within the Balkans, all the clades taken together seem to track Baltic-like autosomal ancestry estimated in various ways broadly well enough though, with a cline from the Northwest to the Southeast (Croatia -> Bosnia -> Serbia, Montenegro -> Macedonia, Bulgaria -> Greece, Albania).

    As for Turkey, the minority but likely decently high in steppe Turkic element itself might have increased the "Eastern European" ancestry there, though i'm not quite sure how 23andme defines the component.

  15. #90
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    24-04-15
    Posts
    115
    Points
    594
    Level
    6
    Points: 594, Level: 6
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 156
    Overall activity: 32.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: United Arab Emirates



    Quote Originally Posted by LATGAL View Post
    Its distribution and frequencies are interesting to say the least. It shows that either it wasn't some "core" proto-Slavic clade or that at least certain Slavic-speaking groups that moved to the west (Poland, Czechia) were a bit lacking in it or...Either way, it doesn't seem as directly associated as certain clades of R1a.

    Within the Balkans, all the clades taken together seem to track Baltic-like autosomal ancestry estimated in various ways broadly well enough though, with a cline from the Northwest to the Southeast (Croatia -> Bosnia -> Serbia, Montenegro -> Macedonia, Bulgaria -> Greece, Albania).
    I agree with you in every point and there's a lot of correlation between I2a and Slavic migrations, but again no need for me to point out the obvious that correlation doesn't mean causation.

    I don't disagree with the conclusions we have so far, I just believe that due to some facts there's still a chance that it might not be Slavic considering that there were so many barbarian hordes causing population movements in Eastern Europe and obviously many tribes tried to move South the Danube, not to count that many non-Slavic barbarians settled in Moesia, Dalmatia, Dacia, and Thracia.

  16. #91
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    17-09-17
    Posts
    260
    Points
    2,608
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,608, Level: 14
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 142
    Overall activity: 12.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Zanatis View Post
    I agree with you in every point and there's a lot of correlation between I2a and Slavic migrations, but again no need for me to point out the obvious that correlation doesn't mean causation.

    I don't disagree with the conclusions we have so far, I just believe that due to some facts there's still a chance that it might not be Slavic considering that there were so many barbarian hordes causing population movements in Eastern Europe and obviously many tribes tried to move South the Danube, not to count that many non-Slavic barbarians settled in Moesia, Dalmatia, Dacia, and Thracia.
    Are you saying I2a was non-Slavic but was Slavicized right before the Slavs crossed the Danube? In that case, what could it have been? It is a European clade, so it was probably not Hunnic, Avar or Turkic of some type. It is practically non-existent in Spain & North Africa, so it cannot be Gothic either.

    Or are you saying that I2a crossed the Danube before the Slavs, and was only later Slavicized when the Slavs arrived? Again, what population that moved into the Balkans in the early Middle Ages matches the distribution of I2a? The Slavs were the only ones to settle permanently and in such large numbers to overwhelm most of the region. Which other population could have done that?

  17. #92
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    24-04-15
    Posts
    115
    Points
    594
    Level
    6
    Points: 594, Level: 6
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 156
    Overall activity: 32.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: United Arab Emirates



    Quote Originally Posted by Ownstyler View Post
    Or are you saying that I2a crossed the Danube before the Slavs, and was only later Slavicized when the Slavs arrived? Again, what population that moved into the Balkans in the early Middle Ages matches the distribution of I2a? The Slavs were the only ones to settle permanently and in such large numbers to overwhelm most of the region. Which other population could have done that?
    Latinized Dacians and other tribes living around the Carpathians and North-Illyrians in Pannonia being pushed South. Why else was the presence of Vlachs so prevalent in areas with predominantly "Slavic" Y-haplogroups like Northern Montenegro, Herzegovina, Bosnia, Central Serbia, South Eastern Albania, Macedonia, Lika, Dalmatia, etc.

    How can the Slavs be almost 90% of population and get assimilated by the usurped Vlachs living in the mountains? But the opposite is not only plausible but a fact also, that what was before The Kingdom of Bulgarians and Vlachs, became simply an area with a predominant Bulgarian majority. Slowly by the 16th century we see the complete disappearance of Vlachs from Montenegro, Herzegovina, Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia.

    In many instances, Slavs, Vlachs, and Albanians seem to have been allies rather than enemies against the Roman/Byzantine Empire, just like how many local Illyrians, Thracians, and especially Dacians joined the Goths instead.

    If you dig into the history of the Balkans in those years you'll notice how many migrations and resettlements were done within the Balkans by Roman Emperors (Dacians, Free Dacians, or even Goths settling in Thrace and Moesia).

    Now these don't prove that I2a is not Slavic, but in my opinion it increases the possibility that it wasn't by a lot. After all it wasn't just the Slavs that moved from North to South and from East to West of the Balkans.

  18. #93
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Tutkun Arnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-03-18
    Posts
    248

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a(m223)(L801)

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I made this map by adding paternal lineages associated with the diffusion Slavic peoples from the Iron Age onwards. These include Y-DNA haplogroups I2a1b-CTS10228, R1a-CTS1211, R1a-Z92 and some branches R1a-M458.

    The Slavic Y-DNA in Italy, southern France and northern Spain came with the Goths, who had assimilated a lot of (Proto-)Slavic people in Poland and Ukraine before moving into the Roman Empire. Interestingly these Slavs appear to have been almost exclusively R1a-CTS1211 (Y2902 and Y3301 clades), in sharp contrast to the later South Slavs who settled in the Dinaric Alps and Balkans and possessed high percentages of I2a1b-CTS10228 (in addition to R1a-CTS1211).

    Some deep clades of E-V13, G2a, J2b2a and R1b-Z2103 may also be of Slavic origin, but as they have not yet been identified and no regional data is available, these were not been included. They might account for an extra 5 to 10% of Y-chomosomal lineages in Slavic countries. Within core Slavic countries like Western Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland, the remainder of the Y-DNA is mostly Uralic, Germanic, Iranian (Scythian) with also some Celtic in Poland, Czechia and Slovakia.



    This map hints that Slavic migrations could have reached deep into the Byzantine Empire, across Anatolia and northern Mesopotamia, and not just in Southeast Europe. However I think that it may be in part to later redistribution of population within the Byzantine and Ottoman Empires. People move, intermarry, and genes flow, especially within a same country. 1500 years is a long time and such drift may be responsible for Slavic Y-DNA in places like northern Mesopotamia. However it is undeniable that there is Slavic autosomal DNA in Turkey itself - more even than in Greece or Albania according to 23andMe's Ancestry Composition.

    Y-DNA frequencies do not always correspond to genome-wide ancestry. That is especially true for South Slavs, most of all in the Dinaric Alps, where according to 23andMe East European ancestry (more broadly Balto-Slavic) is generally only 10 to 20%, a far cry from the 72% of Slavic Y-DNA among Bosniaks.


    Obviously, Slavs have shaped much of Europe genetically. They are almost 300 million in Europe

  19. #94
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    17-09-17
    Posts
    260
    Points
    2,608
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,608, Level: 14
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 142
    Overall activity: 12.0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Zanatis View Post
    Latinized Dacians and other tribes living around the Carpathians and North-Illyrians in Pannonia being pushed South. Why else was the presence of Vlachs so prevalent in areas with predominantly "Slavic" Y-haplogroups like Northern Montenegro, Herzegovina, Bosnia, Central Serbia, South Eastern Albania, Macedonia, Lika, Dalmatia, etc.

    How can the Slavs be almost 90% of population and get assimilated by the usurped Vlachs living in the mountains? But the opposite is not only plausible but a fact also, that what was before The Kingdom of Bulgarians and Vlachs, became simply an area with a predominant Bulgarian majority. Slowly by the 16th century we see the complete disappearance of Vlachs from Montenegro, Herzegovina, Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia.

    In many instances, Slavs, Vlachs, and Albanians seem to have been allies rather than enemies against the Roman/Byzantine Empire, just like how many local Illyrians, Thracians, and especially Dacians joined the Goths instead.

    If you dig into the history of the Balkans in those years you'll notice how many migrations and resettlements were done within the Balkans by Roman Emperors (Dacians, Free Dacians, or even Goths settling in Thrace and Moesia).

    Now these don't prove that I2a is not Slavic, but in my opinion it increases the possibility that it wasn't by a lot. After all it wasn't just the Slavs that moved from North to South and from East to West of the Balkans.
    It is possible that some I2a might not be Slavic, but I don't think what you are saying supports this idea. Vlachs didn't necessarily come from Dacians, they were and still are local Balkan people (including previously Slavic speaking ones) who were latinized. That included all kinds of people with whatever haplogroups they had before latinization, so I don't think large Vlach areas mean anything in terms of haplogroups.

  20. #95
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registeredThree Friends
    srdceleva's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    402
    Points
    4,778
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,778, Level: 20
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 272
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-m458(L260)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4b1b1

    Ethnic group
    75% Slovak, 25℅ American mix
    Country: Slovakia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by I1a3_Young View Post
    I also would be interested in better resolution in Slovakia, they have little detailed testing at FTDNA.
    Slovakia gets little attention in general. Even little slovenia seems to have more in depth studies done about them than slovaks, suprising considering the carpathians have played a critical role in slavic history and expansion. I mean the first two ever slavic states were on present day slovakia.

  21. #96
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,448
    Points
    55,777
    Level
    73
    Points: 55,777, Level: 73
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,273
    Overall activity: 28.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I am not sure I understand your question. This map is based on the modern distribution of Y-DNA. Obviously the map would have looked very different in ancient times before the Slavic migrations.
    Where was the Proto-Slavic homeland in your opinion? According to one theory it was Kiev culture, in Northern Ukraine. Slavic expansion in 400 CE - 800 CE according to this theory:

    https://ii.yuki.la/1/71/1ca9e2112ba1...b0e3b65711.png



    http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/zvwas/zvwas_2.htm


  22. #97
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registeredThree Friends
    srdceleva's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    402
    Points
    4,778
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,778, Level: 20
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 272
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-m458(L260)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4b1b1

    Ethnic group
    75% Slovak, 25℅ American mix
    Country: Slovakia



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Where was the Proto-Slavic homeland in your opinion? According to one theory it was Kiev culture, in Northern Ukraine. Slavic expansion in 400 CE - 800 CE according to this theory:

    https://ii.yuki.la/1/71/1ca9e2112ba1...b0e3b65711.png



    http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/zvwas/zvwas_2.htm

    I agree, pripjat area.

    Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk

  23. #98
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    300
    Points
    1,651
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,651, Level: 11
    Level completed: 34%, Points required for next Level: 199
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Y-DNA frequencies do not always correspond to genome-wide ancestry. That is especially true for South Slavs, most of all in the Dinaric Alps, where according to 23andMe East European ancestry (more broadly Balto-Slavic) is generally only 10 to 20%, a far cry from the 72% of Slavic Y-DNA among Bosniaks.
    Estonia scores over 80% on East-European admixture, and yet the other map implies the country has less than 20% Slavic Y-DNA.

  24. #99
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,682
    Points
    677,611
    Level
    100
    Points: 677,611, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 32.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Estonia scores over 80% on East-European admixture, and yet the other map implies the country has less than 20% Slavic Y-DNA.
    Well, yeah. Estonia is East European but not Slavic. That's not the same thing. Its R1a is mostly Baltic.

  25. #100
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    03-09-16
    Posts
    42
    Points
    2,297
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,297, Level: 13
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 153
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Poland



    How much Slavic Y-DNA is in Lithuania and Latvia? The map of Slavic Y-DNA suggests that there is relatively small amount of Slavic lineages in Baltic countries.

    Why there is quite significantly smaller share of Slavic Y-DNA in southern part of Ukraine? Northern part of this country has about 60-70% of Slavic Y-DNA according to the map, while in most southern part of it the share is below 50%.

Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •