New map of Slavic Y-DNA

Croatians and Slovenians have about 40% non-Slavic haplogroups. I2a+R1a among both is about 60%.
Both of them are far away from 100% Slavic Y DNA as you think they have.

Croatians have J2b1-M205, you are not informed. I have seen 2 Croatians from Livno who are J2b-M205, surname of one of them is Čirko.
I had a contact with Croatian guy from Molunat near Dubrovnik who is J2b-M205. I told him about for Kriči.
Croatians have more J2b2 than Serbs, and J2b2 is Vlacho-Albanian.
J2b2 does not exist among Krajina Serbs.

Krajina Serbs have higher I1 than Croatians on average.
Dalmatian Serbs have over 16% I1.
This is what Nebojša said (first) [video]https://www.poreklo.rs/forum/index.php?topic=391.msg93852#msg93852[/video]
Translation of the last sentences for you: "very high percentage of I1 in northern Dalmatia. Except this Serbian region, the highest percentage of I1 is in Stari Vlah and Romanija"
I2a is quite stronger among Serbs from Dalmatia, Kordun and Banija than among Serbs from Lika. Serbs from Lika have more R1a than Serbs from Kordun, Banija and Dalmatia.

Northern haplos I2a+R1a+I1 (Slavo-Germanic) are majority among Krajina Serbs.
These 3 haplos together are much stronger than Vlach E-V13, J2 and R1b.
N haplogroup among Serbs is of unknown origin. Lika Serbs have 7-8% N.

Bosnian muslims and most of Croatians are not more northern shifted than Krajina Serbs. If Krajina Serbs are Vlach then Croatians and Bosnian muslim should be quite more northern autosomally. But they are not, the are similar northern shifted on average.
Serbs from Banija are probably the most northern shifted Serbs. I have seen K12b dodecad of one Banija Serb, and he got 47% North_European (that is about Slovenian average). He is a pure Serb, and his haplogroup is I2-PH908.
A lot of Banija Serbs are blonde and blue eyed.

For the manipulation of frustrated adminies for Serbian forum you have pm.
 
Dema said:
I never said that E-v13 and J2 are majority among Krajina Serbs. Pay closer attention.
What i actually said is exactly (as can be seen on my post above) "Where J2-M205 and E-v13 is higher then in compare with other South Slavs", meaning J2-M205 and E-v13 together (in combination) is higher in Krajina then in compare to all other South Slavic sourroundings like Slovenia, Slavonia, Bosnia (Muslim/Catholic), but even Istra and surroundings. Which is clearly Croatian/Austrohungar Krajina Vlach element that has been today absorbed into a Serbian population. Even tho they are clearly out of Serbia. (As people already pointed out Krajina is in Croatia, they have no real connection with Serbs from Serbia. In between Krajina and Serbia stands Bosnia.)
Map_of_Republika_Srpska_Krajina.png

According to Serbian project but also maps i seen from Albanian Foleja members there is obvious higher impact of J2b2, R1b and Ev13 in these areas of Croatia where they are historically known as Vlachs, but also in territory of RS where Bosnjaks also call them Vlachs, which turned out to be true. (I know that J2b2 is generally low among Serbs no need to point that out but i think that one sample is J2b2, so dont go all in screaming that there is zero J2b2 in Krajina Vlachs. Double check your facts again.)
Actually J2-M205 and E-v13 are 30 % in Krajina. While I2a and R1a is below 50 %.
J2-M205>Y22066 is excusivly Vlach element that arrived thru Roman Empire territories of Lebanon, Fertile Crescent, and surroundings. While E-v13 is Native Vlach (Latinized Illyrians, Greeks, Thracians) or directly Albanian if that can be verified thru subclades. What we can hypothesize at best is that South Slavs carried at max 2-4 per cent of E-v13 when they arrived and therefore all rest must be native Vlach or directly Albanian. I have very solid proves for my claims if you are willing to continue in that direction. All you need to do is analyse E-v13, R1a and I2a in Slovenia.
What is interesting to me is that J2-M205 goes as high as 15 per cent among Krajina "Serbs", while there is almost no J-M205 at all among Croats or Slovenians. They all somehow magically assimilated among Krajina Serbs. Which is clear proof that Krajina Serbs are actually Vlachs and not Serbs as they claim today.
Other hot spot of J2-M205>Y22066 (Obviously Vlach, Roman haplogroup) is in Rashka - Old Serbia and its stretching into Montenegro. Which were both known places of Vlach population and inhibitors.
Krici tribe that Serbs connect withM205 were Latin speakers from Northern Montenegro.
How can they be Serbs if they are from Montenegrin tribes? Arent they then supposed to be at lest Montenegrins? Second to that is Montenegrins split into Albanian - Vlach and more recent arriving Slavic group, real mountainous Monenegrins must be falling in the first category.
Vasojevici were for sure Vlach or Albanian speakers prior to assimilation while Kuqi and Bjelopavlici were 100% Albanian speakers and Albanian tribes prior to assimilation. So therefore they cannot be Serbian when considering origin.
Slavicization of Montenegro and surroundings was achieved with force and not with free will as you try to imply.
I think all this you written in this last quote is irrelevant and actually shows that you simply dont know what Vlach is. Also shows that you come out of Serbian school of displaying history as only Serbs will try to interpret Vlachs in this way.
Therefore im puzzled that i found myself now in situation to explain what Vlach is. You must absolutely forget Dusan and medieval Serbia where Vlach was apparently social status and not ethnic group.
In 6th century Byzantine historians use Vlach term for Latin speakers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs#6th_century
Therefore its very clear what Vlach is. Its Roman leftover that combines both natives but both these that arrived from further Roman provinces and that adopted Latin language.
All these Niksici, Mirilovici and other "Vlachs" that did not speak Latin but are called Vlachs because they were shepherds its ridiculous to me. They are Serbian shepherds and not Vlachs lol. Therefore lets not confuse real Vlachs with some medieval Serbian status that was also called Vlachs even tho im sure it was more about ethnic group then about status as you try to portrait it.
1. Vlachs from Statuta Valachorum were most certainly Vlachs as they are known as Vlachs historically even tho they are eventually fully Slavicized, and that can be obviously seen thru their Vlach Ydna haplogroups: J-M205, J-L283, E-v13, J1, J2a. But J-M205 and E-v13 is key since they are 30%, and especially M205 since its clear Vlach signal since in surrounding areas only Serbs from Krajina have it since they assimilated Vlachs.
2. Krajina and RS Serbs are at best half Vlach in Ydna, reason why there are more Slavic shifted is because Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins on top of Vlach elements they are heavily Bulgarian and Albanian influenced. Albanian Influence in Montenegrins in overwhelming just as it is in South Serbia. That still does not deny that Krajina and RS Serbs are not Vlachs even tho for centuries there was Slavic income of new genes while there was no new Vlach one. They still show decent amount of Vlach and Albanian genetics in both cases autosomally and thru Ydna.
4. We went thru this already, they are not Serbs but Montenegrins, which again separate into Slavic and Albanian also Vlach parts. Reason why they are most Southeast shifted is because of enormous Albanian influence but also of previously Vlach one.
Albanians are sharing their genes there as we speak and they live in Montenegro as natives for millenniums.
5. Why are you denying obvious and why are you speaking about stuff you have no clue about like trash posts you posted in my M205 thread, which are obviously very easy to debunk since its clear you dont understand my genetic results neither clades.
Joining with half retarded Albanian grown-up kid that cant speak one healthy sentence, that is born in Sweden and does not speak Albanian language. is not going to bring you many points. If you have anything to say, then say it. But posting Youtube trash videos and claiming that me and some guy both come from Krici simply puts you into bad position since it shows you dont understand simple subclades. Im waiting my Yfull to complete analysis so i can bring new conclusions, why are you rushing into infesting my thread together with that traitor only because we dont have same points of view?
Conclusion: Serbs from Croatia in area known as Krajina also from Bosnia from RS that are historically known as Vlachs is now confirmed. Vlach signal is very easy to follow thru J2-M205 or E-v13.
Serbs from Rashka, South Serbia and Montenegro on top of Vlach signal they are heavily Albanian influenced which is reason why Serbs in general are further away from Croats, Bosnjaks, Slovenians and others and probably more Bulgarian shifted.
Click to expand...
After the great illyrian revolt 9AD and the third illyrian war in 167BC , nearly 300000 illyrian where massacred and removed to other places in the empire ..........the dalmatian and pannonian areas where replenished by Dacians ( fleeing the push of the Goths )..........dacians = Vlachs ..........both spoke Latin
 
We do not have historical records that any Serbs come to Croatia or about 10% in writing but also in these 10% are mentioned with Vlachs and somewhere with Croats.

Vlachs with Serbs have nothing to do, in this area most of the Croat population has also passed on Orthodoxy and for that you do not need a written document just use logic.

It is interesting that during last 10 years of watching various forums in the Balkans and wider I did not come across a one quote from Serbian forum member that one Croat passed on Orthodoxy, that speaks for itself.

Genetic data showed here for Croatian Serbs are not useful because we do not know whether they are mixed families, cousins, etc. We do not know whether they are Croats who converted to Orthodoxy. In any case genetics of Croatian Serbs has the most connection with Vlachs who became today's Croatian Serbs partially and Croatians which probably coming from direction of Albania and Albanian ethnic areas. Most likely part of R1a and I2a subclades in Croatian Serbs are Croatian origin. We know that exactly when we identify local migration of all these R1a, I2a etc subclades.

It is interesting and that Croats are historically mention in Drina valley, eastern Herzegovina, central Montenegro, in the heart of medieval Serbia in Raska, where today is the epicenter of Serbians and Montenegrins. Supposedly from these directions Serbians come to Croatia so it is possible that these Croats also coming to Croatia.

And finally, Serbs think that Vlachs of Balkans are Serbs but this is their internal and national problem which has nothing to do with with Croats, Albanians, Slovenes etc. Serbian Emperor Dušan(Dušan the Mighty) has clearly separated Serbs from Vlachs and this is an indisputable fact.
 
Dema said:
Yes, this is original Military Frontier according to Wikipedia, but as i understand its more or less the same, regarding Croatia. Its even bigger.


Militargrenze%2C_Wojwodowena_und_Banat.jpg
Click to expand...

Before 1991. nobody was using the term “Krajina”. It is purely Serb nationalistic construct, meaningless today, and we should avoid using it. It is the anachronism used by Serbia to create an impression that their territorial aspirations have the historical legitimation. However, in 1991. Serbs didn’t follow any pattern except to grab as much Croatian territory as they could. They were stopped at some point, and in order to legalize the occupation, they called the territory “Serbian Republic of Krajina”. It is sad that many Serbs still use that term on Internet forums.
 
hrvat22 said:
We do not have historical records that any Serbs come to Croatia or about 10% in writing but also in these 10% are mentioned with Vlachs and somewhere with Croats.

Vlachs with Serbs have nothing to do, in this area most of the Croat population has also passed on Orthodoxy and for that you do not need a written document just use logic.

It is interesting that during last 10 years of watching various forums in the Balkans and wider I did not come across a one quote from Serbian forum member that one Croat passed on Orthodoxy, that speaks for itself.

Genetic data showed here for Croatian Serbs are not useful because we do not know whether they are mixed families, cousins, etc. We do not know whether they are Croats who converted to Orthodoxy. In any case genetics of Croatian Serbs has the most connection with Vlachs who became today's Croatian Serbs partially and Croatians which probably coming from direction of Albania and Albanian ethnic areas. Most likely part of R1a and I2a subclades in Croatian Serbs are Croatian origin. We know that exactly when we identify local migration of all these R1a, I2a etc subclades.

It is interesting and that Croats are historically mention in Drina valley, eastern Herzegovina, central Montenegro, in the heart of medieval Serbia in Raska, where today is the epicenter of Serbians and Montenegrins. Supposedly from these directions Serbians come to Croatia so it is possible that these Croats also coming to Croatia.

And finally, Serbs think that Vlachs of Balkans are Serbs but this is their internal and national problem which has nothing to do with with Croats, Albanians, Slovenes etc. Serbian Emperor Dušan(Dušan the Mighty) has clearly separated Serbs from Vlachs and this is an indisputable fact.
Click to expand...
Vlach are Romanian not Serbian

Not much of a Serb minority in Croatia I have to be careful what I will say since I don't want another strike on my account but...Croatians are just Catholic Serbians you became Catholics same as Bosnian became Muslim easily to look at Ex Yugoslavic demographics online
 
hrvat22 said:
We do not have historical records that any Serbs come to Croatia or about 10% in writing but also in these 10% are mentioned with Vlachs and somewhere with Croats.

Vlachs with Serbs have nothing to do, in this area most of the Croat population has also passed on Orthodoxy and for that you do not need a written document just use logic.

It is interesting that during last 10 years of watching various forums in the Balkans and wider I did not come across a one quote from Serbian forum member that one Croat passed on Orthodoxy, that speaks for itself.

Genetic data showed here for Croatian Serbs are not useful because we do not know whether they are mixed families, cousins, etc. We do not know whether they are Croats who converted to Orthodoxy. In any case genetics of Croatian Serbs has the most connection with Vlachs who became today's Croatian Serbs partially and Croatians which probably coming from direction of Albania and Albanian ethnic areas. Most likely part of R1a and I2a subclades in Croatian Serbs are Croatian origin. We know that exactly when we identify local migration of all these R1a, I2a etc subclades.

It is interesting and that Croats are historically mention in Drina valley, eastern Herzegovina, central Montenegro, in the heart of medieval Serbia in Raska, where today is the epicenter of Serbians and Montenegrins. Supposedly from these directions Serbians come to Croatia so it is possible that these Croats also coming to Croatia.

And finally, Serbs think that Vlachs of Balkans are Serbs but this is their internal and national problem which has nothing to do with with Croats, Albanians, Slovenes etc. Serbian Emperor Dušan(Dušan the Mighty) has clearly separated Serbs from Vlachs and this is an indisputable fact.
Click to expand...

Hello silly boy!
Don't ******** this thread with your patetic bullshit. Serbs western of Drina river have nothing to do with Vlachs. Look at the genetic of Aromanians, it's very different than genetic genetic of any Serbs.
Krajina Serbs genetically are the most northern shifted Serbs, and of story!
On the other hand real Vlachs such as Aromanians are very southern shifted population.

Genetically Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins are more Vlachs influenced than Krajina Serbs. Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins shifted more southern than Krajina Serbs.
If Krajina Serbs are Vlachs than Croatians are also Vlachs, because they are very similar autosomally. :LOL:
 
Lenab said:
Vlach are Romanian not Serbian

Not much of a Serb minority in Croatia I have to be careful what I will say since I don't want another strike on my account but...Croatians are just Catholic Serbians you became Catholics same as Bosnian became Muslim easily to look at Ex Yugoslavic demographics online
Click to expand...

I have no problem with that and I do not think it is punishable to say that but somehow you have to prove it. You have to understand that Serbians are not mention written in Croatia, written documents mention Croats all the way to Serbia and it is just the opposite of your thesis.

First record that speaks about arrival of Serbs to the Balkans indicating that Serbian tribe coming from Greece (one village) to eastern Roman Dalmatia which logically is not possible, finally it was confirmed by genetics that no one comes from Greece to eastern Roman Dalmatia. But you're going to refute with something.
 
Agreed Aromanians are Vlach and to do with Romanians.
 
Lenab said:
Vlach are Romanian not Serbian

Not much of a Serb minority in Croatia I have to be careful what I will say since I don't want another strike on my account but...Croatians are just Catholic Serbians you became Catholics same as Bosnian became Muslim easily to look at Ex Yugoslavic demographics online
Click to expand...

True.
Vast majority of Croatians are just brainwashed Catholic Serbs.
Croatian language does not exist, they speak Serbian language.
 
hrvat22 said:
I have no problem with that and I do not think it is punishable to say that but somehow you have to prove it. You have to understand that Serbians are not mention written in Croatia, written documents mention Croats all the way to Serbia and it is just the opposite of your thesis.

First record that speaks about arrival of Serbs to the Balkans indicating that Serbian tribe coming from Greece (one village) to eastern Roman Dalmatia which logically is not possible, finally it was confirmed by genetics that no one comes from Greece to eastern Roman Dalmatia. But you're going to refute with something.
Click to expand...


No no Dalmatia is old Illyrian Kingdom these are Romance Slavs or Romance Serbs Illyra or Ilyriana was mentioned in old Serbian text books Albanians try to claim Illyrian if anything not the Serbs but the Illyrians/Thracians and Slavs invaded the West Balkans during the Middle Ages...This was all documented no matter what country in the Balkans they settled in

Look I will say it in front of Bachus a Serb I am regretfully half Turkish my Great Grandfather was a pure Slav from Macedonia blonde hair and blue eyes...Does that mean that Turks are somehow related to Serbians? No it means the male ancestors in my Mother's family were converts from Macedonia/Serbia to Islam and I have pictures from 1800 to conform it the question is not who blood that is shared but who actually came there first got there first. Is Croatia mentioned in any pre historic Balkan Slavic texts/not just Dalmatia if so are people from Dalmatia just Illyrians and not Albanians Romanians Serbians or Croatians?

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/247/lenabs-genetic-results
 
Right and it's the same for Macedonians/Eastern Thracians/ Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonians but they somehow do not have a problem to admit they are related to Serbians
 
Bachus
Click to expand...

Serbs western of Drina river have nothing to do with Vlachs.
Click to expand...

That's why you are here to challenge me with written documents that mentione Serbians in Croatia. We have had this controversy earlier but you have not provided any evidence.

Krajina Serbs genetically are the most northern shifted Serbs, and of story!
Click to expand...

There are no written records that mentions arrival of Serbians to Croatia, I do not know if you understand this ? It is very likely that part of these Croatian Serbs are descendants of Croats and therefore are "northern shifted".

On the other hand real Vlachs such as Aromanians are very southern shifted population.
Click to expand...

Serbian E1b V13 subclades for now have similarities with Albanians not Romanians. This is significant.


If Krajina Serbs are Vlachs than Croatians are also Vlachs, because they are very similar autosomally
Click to expand...

We may be autosomal Vlach but by the male line we are Croatians or descendants of Croats.
 
Lenab said:
No no Dalmatia is old Illyrian Kingdom these are Romance Slavs or Romance Serbs Illyra or Ilyriana was mentioned in old Serbian text books Albanians try to claim Illyrian if anything not the Serbs but the Illyrians/Thracians and Slavs invaded the West Balkans during the Middle Ages...This was all documented no matter what country in the Balkans they settled in

Look I will say it in front of Bachus a Serb I am regretfully half Turkish my Great Grandfather was a pure Slav from Macedonia blonde hair and blue eyes...Does that mean that Turks are somehow related to Serbians? No it means the male ancestors in my Mother's family were converts from Macedonia/Serbia to Islam and I have pictures from 1800 to conform it the question is not who blood that is shared but who actually came there first got there first. Is Croatia mentioned in any pre historic Balkan Slavic texts/not just Dalmatia if so are people from Dalmatia just Illyrians and not Albanians Romanians Serbians or Croatians?

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/247/lenabs-genetic-results
Click to expand...

As I said, you have no proof for your thesis that Croats are Catholic Serbs. I would love that we all are Serbian origin but it is just the opposite.
 
E3b is Neolithic It's matched with Greek Hellenics Albanians and South Italians E is more absent in Serbians most Serbians are I

Even if Croats get matched with Croats that does not mean they are racially Croatian I got matched with South Italians and Greeks Croatians and Bosnians match with Serbians

Yet my Mum has Greek Armenian Ex Yugoslavian etc ancestry I have no known Italian at all my family are from the Balkans and the Near East.
 
Bachus said:
True.
Vast majority of Croatians are just brainwashed Catholic Serbs.
Croatian language does not exist, they speak Serbian language.
Click to expand...

Here we start with the Serbian language which has nothing to do with the origin of anyone. It is a so-called myth without any written or genetic evidence.
 
The Serbs/Slavs Indo Europeans are mentioned in the Avesta texts Macedonians are Serbs Croatians are Serbs Bosnians are Serbs

Before the Turks conquered the Balkans all Serbs had been ORthodox Christian with thier own medieval state and church. After the Ottoman Empire conquered Serbia, one part of the Serbian population fled from the Turks into neighboring Christian Austria and Hungary, while the other part of the Serbian population remained living under the Ottoman Empire. The same way centuries of Muslim rule under the Ottoman Empire made many Orthodox Serbs who stayed convert to Islam, so too centuries of Catholic rule under the Habsburg Empire made many Orthodox Serbs convert to Catholicism. Their change in religion however could not change their nationality, which was defined by their language.


Now obviously Karadzic's linguistic nationalism failed, because Serbs today exclusively identify themselves with Orthodoxy while Croats with Catholicism etc. However I'm interested to hear whether anyone thinks it was possible to overcome that religious division. Could today's Croats have been assimilated as Roman Catholic Serbs in the 19th century the way Protesant and CAtholic Germans overcame religious differences as well as Hungarians, Albanians and Greeks did.



Before the Ottoman invasion/occupation of the West Balkans all Serbians were Orthodox there were no Catholics in that region and no Muslims then
Habsburg Empire changed that for them to be Romance Catholic same as when Serbs converted to Islam and became Muslim there is the proof


If they were Turks they fled to Turkey after empire finished.
 
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Results from 23&me

Serbs from Croatia (aka Krajina Serbs) - Срби (Хрватска)
Sample 74
I2a (27) - 36,5%
R1a (15) - 20,3%
E1b (10) - 13,5%
N2 (7)- 9,5%
J2b (7) - 9,5%
I1 (3) - 4,1%
J2a (3) - 4,1%
R1b (2) - 2,7%
[video]https://www.poreklo.rs/forum/index.php?topic=1193.msg95395#msg95395[/video]

Serbs from Bosnia&Herzegovina - Срби (БиХ)
Sample 135
I2a (54) - 40%
R1a (22) - 16,3%
E1b (22) - 16,3%
N2 (11) - 8,1%
I1 (6) - 4,4%
R1b (6) - 4,4%
J2b (6) - 4,4%
J1 (3) - 2,2%
J2a (2) - 1,5%
Q1b (1) - 0,7%
I2-M223 (1) - 0,7%
[video]https://www.poreklo.rs/forum/index.php?topic=1193.msg95395#msg95395[/video]
 
Those are links to history in the Catholic religion that tells me literally nothing about Croatian history but confirms that Romans spread Catholicism
 
If they are Slavs they would be more new than the Mediterranean Slavs are Megalithic Mediterranean especially Eastern are Neolithic it's virtually impossible for Slavs to be E and J most Slavs are I and R
 
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