Ramses II DNA?

[Alyan]

https://archyfantasies.com/2018/09/...jennifer-raff-archaeological-fantasies-ep-98/

An expert studying Amerindian remains talks about how they've yet to find non-Far Eastern/Amerindian admixture in samples.

 

[Ygorcs]

Everything I've seen shows those men in the northeastern parts of North America carry young, downstream clades of R1b, which obviously came with European settlers.

Even the mtDna X2 has been shown to be the Central Asian version, not the European version.

This is all complete nonsense with no support in either genetics or archaeology.

That's what I'd suspected. By now in 2018 we've had millions of modern individuals with their Y-DNA analyzed, both in genomic studies and in individual DNA analyses by companies, and we'd certainly have come across some unique R1b clades in the Americas (not just in extant tribes, but also in descendants of assimilated Amerindians) and at least one of these "American R1b clades" would've been identified. R1b-M269 that remained identical to R1b-M269 found in Europe or West Asia even 5,000 years or so later? Totally unlikely.

 

[Salento]

Does anyone know when king Tut's/and father's ydna result's are going to be released? Hopefully some day we can learn about the ydna of this dynasty.

Search for it, easy to find.
Many strongly disagree to the Y results, so I won’t provide a link.
(or you could read the 1st post)

 

[davef]

Anyone who argues that R1b implies ancestry from celts, indo Europeans or red heads should consider a certain African tribe where this y-dna is in high frequency. Who will argue that this tribe has ancestry from steppe people who rode their chariots deep into the thick rainforests of Africa and settled down with their ancestors? Seriously?

 

[Alyan]

For those interested, I have it on good authority that the Francis Crick Institute and other researchers are studying older Egyptian remains (I'm talking Early Middle Kingdom to Predynastic) for autosomal DNA.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

Do you know when one could expect the results of these studies?

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Do you know when one could expect the results of these studies?

There aren't any for Ramses at least. I am sure any results, given his phenotype (red hair, at least reasonably pale skin), would be shocking, and hence the topic is probably too sensitive to be up for discussion. Same reason why many Peruvian mummies of CLEARLY at least partial Caucasoid descent aren't up for discussion either, with the indigenes taking it upon themselves to essentially claim ownership of the remains and often ban them from DNA testing.

I mean, the African-American community got extremely rowdy at a mere RECONSTRUCTION of Nefertiti, who didn't even have white skin (pale, yes, but of a clearly Levantine variety):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vnaR2Oo8sg

 

[Gnarl]

Didnt they claim Ramses III was the African variant of E1b? I have doubts on that to be honest, but I guess it could come from the Nubians. But if they were open with Ramses III’s African Y DNA, they would have been with Tut.

To my mind, mummies with red hair (natural red hair, not from the mummification process) is enough to draw a basic picture. The same goes for things like skull forms. Unfortunately, though, they can never be as accurate as DNA testing, so history is now down to a few hundred people deciding what to reveal or not.

In Peru though, they actually, purposefully corrupted and basically destroyed one of the mummies. There are photos of it with fairly pale skin and red/brown hair, but since then his skin and hair have been artificially darkened. Things like that are what angers me. Honestly, I would support a group of neo-Nazis breaking into these museums to extract samples, so long as they were honest. But such an idea is pretty radical. Not that the mummies would score Steppe at all, in all likelihood.

I believe most instances of red hair is caused by a mutation to the MC1R gene affecting the melanocortin receptor. It is inherited as an autosomal recessive. Estimates of the age of the mutation causing most instances of red hair range from 20 to 100 kyears. So it is older than the populating of the Americas. It is most common in populations in the British Isles, and more rare elsewhere. As an autosomal recessive, we would expect it to pop up on rare occasions in populations where the allele is scarce.

Since it is associated with an inability to tan, there is negative selection against it closer to the equator, but it is not remarkable along the southern coast of the Mediterranean.

 

[Alyan]

Do you know when one could expect the results of these studies?

If you're talking to me, then I tell you my contact didn't say. Here's the emails:

There aren't any for Ramses at least. I am sure any results, given his phenotype (red hair, at least reasonably pale skin), would be shocking, and hence the topic is probably too sensitive to be up for discussion. Same reason why many Peruvian mummies of CLEARLY at least partial Caucasoid descent aren't up for discussion either, with the indigenes taking it upon themselves to essentially claim ownership of the remains and often ban them from DNA testing.

I mean, the African-American community got extremely rowdy at a mere RECONSTRUCTION of Nefertiti, who didn't even have white skin (pale, yes, but of a clearly Levantine variety):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vnaR2Oo8sg

Just read the link to that interview I posted. The experts who spoke in it confirmed that relevant testing of Amerindian remains hasn't found European admixture that predates the Norse. And that's key since there isn't an example of two such genetically different groups sharing living space and not interbreeding with no restrictions on miscegenation.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

If you're talking to me, then I tell you my contact didn't say. Here's the emails:
View attachment 10407View attachment 10408View attachment 10409


Just read the link to that interview I posted. The experts who spoke in it confirmed that relevant testing of Amerindian remains hasn't found European admixture that predates the Norse. And that's key since there isn't an example of two such genetically different groups sharing living space and not interbreeding with no restrictions on miscegenation.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully they will include genome-wide data in addition to uni-parental markers. In lieu of the Iberomaurusian study and the Natufian genomes, I would expect the formative population of the Dynastic period would derive most of their ancestry from the Epipaleolithic Levant with a range of Levant derived E3b lineages and a clinal increase in East African admixture as one goes further South. It is not clear when the Neolithic Iranian ancestry showed up, as it was present in Abusir mummies but not Natufians, hence once could only speculate on when J lineages were introduced to the region. Maternal lineages would probably be U6, M1, H, RO, N1.

 

[Alyan]

Works from Francis Crick's Lab Ancient DNA are good about not depending too much on Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA. Anyway, here are some emails that came from a different contact:

 

[RenaissanceMan]

Works from Francis Crick's Ancient DNA are good about not depending too much on Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA. Anyway, here are some emails that came from a different contact:


View attachment 10410View attachment 10411

Awesome, I follow Lazaridis' work. Keep the updates coming!

 

[Alyan]

I have also some emails from Skoglund on Mesopotamian sample. I'll post them in another thread.